? Snake ID

[prattypus]

I didn't know where to put this, so I'll try it here. While in Iraq, I found a small snake. I have no idea what it was. If anyone wants to take a gander, I have some pics posted in my album. Any speculation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jason

[Stefan-A]

You don't know what it is and you're still handling it?

Well, definitely a colubrid, looks a lot like the Malpolon species we have here in Europe. A complete and utter guess, but I'd say it's a relative. Doesn't really look like the sand racers.

[prattypus]

I had good health care in the military, I wasn't too worried.

[Stefan-A]

It's still not a very clever thing to do. No matter what level of health care you have, you can still get seriously injured, lose body parts or function, or even die. There are no guarantees.

[GartersRock]

I agree with Stefan and thats the first thing I thought when I saw those pics...

[prattypus]

Yes, you're right. Without being sure I shouldn't have handled it. It looked enough like a garter to lure me into a false sense of security.

[GartersRock]

Was just worried about you. ;)

[zooplan]

that´s death-defying
have you ever seen a mamba?
It has got the same shape.

[Stefan-A]

that´s death-defying
have you ever seen a mamba?
It has got the same shape.
Doesn't resemble the mambas that much. I think the boomslang has the same shape head, though.

[reptileparadise]

I have to agree with all the others. Never handle unknown snakes! ( I guess this might be a bit double :D)

The snake doesn't look familiar to me. I don't really see a mamba shape in it, but the head does look like a boomsnake. I don't believe they are found in Iraq though...(could be wrong)

Allright...lets 'google'

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, definitely not a boomslang. :D I just meant it has a similar shaped head (if you ignore the ridges above the eyes, which I hope aren't imaginary ;) ).

[reptileparadise]

I'm tempted to go towards Coluber rogersi, but the markings don't seem right...
Does anyone know something about the venomous snakes in Iraq (James?). I believe there are a couple of vipers and 1 or 2 cobra species that can be of a threat....The rest should be harmless

[Stefan-A]

Coluber rogersi is a very good candidate, but in the pictures I found, the head shape was different. It could still just be my imagination, though. :)

[reptileparadise]

hmmm
Eirenis coronella
http://icb-reptiles.com/files/f892.jpg
(source; ùìååï ëúîéí (Eirenis coronella) (http://icb-reptiles.com/site/reptile.asp?RecordID=389) )
Malpolon moilensis
http://www.curtus.com/Gast/malpolon.jpg
(source; Gästefotos (http://www.curtus.com/Gast/Gast.htm) )
They look a bit like your snake.
The head looks a bit malpolon like...But it will always be a guessing game for me :)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

garter snakes are only found in north america. I would look at the pictures to help out, but I am doing this from my phone. I would probably never pick up a snake in a foreign country unless it was a python or boid. there are so many colubrids and even elapids that 'look' harmless!

[adamanteus]

I believe it to be Malpolon monspessulanus insignitus. This snake is considered dangerous and requires a DWA licence in the UK.

[reptileparadise]

woohoo! I was close :p

Is it a rear fanged animal?

[adamanteus]

Yes, rear fanged. I don't think they're actually particularly dangerous.... but UK law does.

I have a feeling that insignitus now has full species status, and is no longer a sub-species of monspessulanus... maybe someone who actually keeps up with taxonomic changes can enlighten us? Stefan?

[Tori]

I don't know what it is but I do know that it isn't venomous. There are six truely venomous snakes in Iraq and this little guy fits none of their descriptions.

Horned desert viper
(Cerastes cerastes)

Egyptian cobra
(Naja haje)

Levant viper
(Vipera lebetina)

Puff adder
(Bitis arietans)

Saw-scaled viper
(Echis carinatus)

Lebetine Viper
(Macrovipera lebetina)

I got concerned because my son is returning for his third tour in Iraq and though he may already know I am not taking chances. I sent him photos and information on all six. I have no idea why I didn't think of natural threats before and he isn't very informed about snakes from what I've seen.

[adamanteus]

Tori, it is venomous. It's a back-fanged snake.

[adamanteus]

Quick, simplified lesson...
There are three groups of venomous snakes;
Solenoglyphs, with 'hinged' front fangs (vipers)
Proteroglyphs, with small 'fixed' front fangs (cobras, mambas, kraits, sea-snakes etc)
Opisthoglyphs, with enlarged rear fangs (Boomslang, Twig Snake, Montpellier Snake, others)

It would be wrong (and dangerous) to exclude the Opisthoglyphs from the 'truely' venomous snakes. These snakes are not border-line venomous, like the Garters. These are true venomous species, complete with venom glands, venom ducts and enlarged, grooved rear fangs for delivering the sometimes extremely potent venoms. Both the Boomslang and the Twig Snake are known to have caused human fatalities.

[GartersRock]

I LOVE "mild" venomous rear fanged! And hope to keep and breed a collection of various boiga and ahaetulla in the near future. ;)

[Stefan-A]

It would be wrong (and dangerous) to exclude the Opistoglyphs from the 'truely' venomous snakes. These snakes are not border-line venomous, like the Garters. These are true venomous species, complete with venom glands, venom ducts and enlarged, grooved rear fangs for delivering the sometimes extremely potent venoms. Both the Boomslang and the Twig Snake are known to have caused human fatalities.
Indeed, the boomslang has the most potent venom of any snake in Africa, if I remember correctly. Not a nice neurotoxin like the mambas' and cobras' either, but the kind of toxin that gives you internal bleeding and makes blood shoot out of every orifice.

[adamanteus]

Indeed. And the species in question Malpolon monspessulanus is known to cause neurological damage and cranial nerve disturbance. I don't know if anyone has ever been killed by this species, I doubt it, but it should never be disregarded as 'non venomous'.

[prattypus]

Wow, see what happends when a true layman tries to document and catch this stuff? Again, thanks for all the help, and I am really glad this little dud had a calm demeanor with no inclination to strike into me!!!!

[anji1971]

And just think...........
if he had bitten you, you may not have survived to be given heck to by a whole forum!:D
Just don't try that again, okay?

[prattypus]

Im outta there for good, so I'll just chalk that one up to luck, and try to stick to the readily identifiable ones.

[anji1971]

Good call!
When are your new garter snakes arriving? I'm looking forward to the pictures!

[Tori]

I guess I wasn't clear. I meant that it is not one of the venomous snakes that if bitten can cause death. I didn't think that it mattered if it was only mildly venomous like a hognose snake.

[prattypus]

I should be getting them on Wed. I will give them a few days to acclimate before I snapshot them all around.