outdoor

[zooplan]

didn´t I lately told you that I got permission to build an outdoor enclosure in the yard of my new firm?
can´t find the thread

[adamanteus]

Yes, Udo, you did tell us that. I can't remember where you wrote it though. When will you start work on it?

[zooplan]

The corner I´ve got was filled with scrap.
that is gone now.
fisrt pics shall follow when I´m back home:D

[adamanteus]

I would still like to make an outdoor enclosure for my radix, but Mrs. Adamanteus will take some convincing! Maybe I should buy her some jewellery or something?:rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

Buy her a garter snake.

[adamanteus]

Buy her a garter snake.

I don't think that would cut it, Stefan..... unless it was 18 carat.:D

[zooplan]

You should buy her the book of Martin Hallmen about outdoor enclosures!
There are so many excellent photos, that show the beauty and excitement of these.
I showed it to my boss and it worked well.:D

[adamanteus]

Martin has a book out about these? I would like to see it.

[zooplan]

This is all I could find about it so far
Muster (http://martinhallmen.de/buch-freiterris.htm)
but there is an article about it on
EGSA.de - European Garter Snake Association (http://www.egsa.de) too
and on the HP of Jan Sonnenberg
www.sirtalis.de - Thamnophen im Terrarium - Startseite (http://www.sirtalis.de)

[Stefan-A]

I don't think that would cut it, Stefan..... unless it was 18 carat.:D
Well, that's also something to consider. :D

[zooplan]

I don't think that would cut it, Stefan..... unless it was 18 carat.:D
then you have to change your snake food to goldfish:confused:

[Lori P]

ROFL-- Udo, too funny!!!

James, get Molly on your side... who could resist those eyes??!!

[zooplan]

The sun is burning
25 ° C and no shadow arround
I try to work on the enclosure:o
First I have to shovel a lot of soil away,
because I have to make the place mice proof!

[Stefan-A]

First I have to shovel a lot of soil away,
because I have to make the place mice proof!
Isn't that what the snakes are for? ;)

[adamanteus]

Will you use steel mesh under the ground to keep the mice from tunnelling in? That's what I had in mind.

[zooplan]

Will you use steel mesh under the ground to keep the mice from tunnelling in? That's what I had in mind.
yes, wild mice are vrey dagerous for such little snakes especially during hibernation.
and on the other hand mice holes are excellent escape tracks

[adamanteus]

Yes, it was the escape holes I was concerned about. Another way to get around this would be to provide a deep base of stone hardcore under the subsrate.... mice could not burrow through this and it would also provide excellent drainage in case of heavy rain.

[Stefan-A]

How deep will you need to dig to make the "den"? Is ground frost ever a problem in your area(s)?

[zooplan]

wether wich way I try, I have to dig first
I cant dig very deed at the surounding because there are piplines and wire in the ground.
The den has to be 80 cm under the surface when its filled with isolating subtrate.

[Gijs & Sabine]

That sounds great, Udo !! I quess when you're finished we have to visit YOU then :D

[zooplan]

Hi Sabine,
you may come right now to help digging:D

[Gijs & Sabine]

Hi Sabine,
you may come right now to help digging:D

25 °C and no shadow ?? Sorry, I don't think so :D

[adamanteus]

How deep will you need to dig to make the "den"? Is ground frost ever a problem in your area(s)?

If I ever build an outdoor enclosure, I will construct a well insulated 'cell' and build a hill over it, rather than sink the den into the ground. For me (on heavy clay soil) the risk of flooding is greater than the risk of extreme low temperatures. I also like the idea of the interesting topography an artificial hill would provide.

[zooplan]

can you lend me an excavator, James?
I hate digging yet.
When I subsoil only a small part the digged pit is filled up again
I feel like Sisyphos!

[adamanteus]

If you were nearer, Udo, I would arrange an excavator for you.

[adamanteus]

Do you think my idea for an above ground hibernaculum would work, if it were properly insulated? Obviously there would be passages (not shown) leading in there from the surface.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//536/medium/Hibernaculum_.GIF

[zooplan]

It will work!
and better with some small modification:
Dig a hole under the hill.
Let the insulation go down to the bottom of the hole.
Don´t insulate the bottom.
Fill the hole again with gross gravel.
So the warmth from the ground will come to your den.

[adamanteus]

Good idea, Udo. If I get permission, I will do it this way!:)

[reptileparadise]

Very nice James!

And we love pictures Udo ;)

[zooplan]

I feel as if it is warming up more mand more.
Got a third of the first level now.
After one more row I will quit for today.
A shower is most encessary now.
I feel like a ferret,Lory;)

[zooplan]

Very nice James!

And we love pictures Udo ;)
You´ll get photos after the shower.:p

[reptileparadise]

You feel like a ferret...or smell like a ferret? :D

[infernalis]

Do you think my idea for an above ground hibernaculum would work, if it were properly insulated? Obviously there would be passages (not shown) leading in there from the surface.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//536/medium/Hibernaculum_.GIF

James, wire that up with an infrared camera, and watch inside :)

A heat mat with a thermostat for emergency backup would provide peace of mind also.

[zooplan]

You feel like a ferret...or smell like a ferret? :D
I´ve transformed into a human again, thank you.
But I can´t find the photos I´d taken before the projekt started:(

[zooplan]

These photos are taken yesterday and this afternoon.
First a sight from the street:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/strasse.jpg
and the clean corner befor we pushed the old car away
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/inside.jpg

[anji1971]

Looks like a HUGE job!
No wonder you smelled like a ferret!;)

[zooplan]

This is my claim after we burned the woods and dryed plants
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/theclaim.jpg
its 7 feet wide and 6 yards log

[Sid]

I'll be watching for progress photos, Udo. Can't wait for the finished product.

[zooplan]

and here comes the action
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/shovel.jpg
with shovel
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/hacke.jpg
and mattock

[crzy_kevo]

udo that is the the second pic is great best pose ever lol :D

[jitami]

Cool... I too will be watching for progress photos! It does look like a huge job! I'm sure it will be worth all the work in the end!

[adamanteus]

That's a good size, Udo. Will it be one single enclosure, or a group of several?

[zooplan]

It is my most loved toy, Kev
The German name is "Wiedehopfhacke"
It´s a hack and an axe in one.
Maybe you can find the English name
while I´m going to bed now;)

[Sid]

Udo, were you looking at the camera in the second shoot or watching for help on the large task at hand????

[crzy_kevo]

i believe we call them a pickaxe

[zooplan]

It got its name from the bird, Upupa epops:D
Oh what a funny Latin name:D:D

[drache]

they gave you a decent size space to work with Udo
it's going to be really nice

James
you should get that book, really
some of the enclosures pictured in it may win over Mrs Adamanteus

[adamanteus]

James
you should get that book, really
some of the enclosures pictured in it may win over Mrs Adamanteus

Could you scan and post a couple of those pics, Rhea?

[adamanteus]

As it happens, I may have made progress already.... we actually discussed it today without it being dismissed out of hand. So any aid in convincing her that it would actually look 'nice' can only help at this stage.

[anji1971]

You know James.........
it's the aesthetics that probably has her the most skeptical. Women want things to look nice. Our partners' projects don't always fit the description. So I say, get the book, and let her look at how nice they can be. Has she seen the pictures Udo put up of the outdoor enclosure his friend had? That one was especially attractive.:)

[crzy_kevo]

i agree and what about the pics of sid's outdoor enclosure that one was good looking too

[zooplan]

Maybe Sabine or Kuno,
have made some photos
of the enclosures of Steven Bol?

[adamanteus]

Udo, what will you use to make the walls of your enclosure? I was thinking of glazed uPVC or aluminium frames.

[zooplan]

Two walls are finished as you see:D
The rest must at least partly be of glass

[reptileparadise]

I believe there are a few pictures of Stevens outdoor enclosure in one of the dutch meeting threads
I'll have a look

[reptileparadise]

This is the one. A lot of pictures are missing, but Stevens enclosure is still there
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/1066-first-tamnophismeeting-netherlands-3.html

[adamanteus]

Thank you Sjoerd, that's very useful..... I think the battle may be won. She caught me measuring up the area I have in mind to build.... she just laughed and said "I know what you're doing!":D

[anji1971]

That sounds like a good sign, James! :)

[reptileparadise]

You did it James!
You could let her choose the species you want to keep in there... ;)
Its alllll about the politics...

[adamanteus]

You could let her choose the species you want to keep in there... ;)

It absolutely, definitely, completely, totally must be radix!:rolleyes: I'll let her choose, if she chooses radix.:D

[infernalis]

It absolutely, definitely, completely, totally must be radix!:rolleyes: I'll let her choose, if she chooses radix.:D

Let her suggest the colour of the radix:D

[adamanteus]

Actually, we haven't asked Udo (and this is his thread)....:o
Udo, what species will you be keeping in your new outdoor enclosure?

[Garter_Gertie]

OMG. Is that guy married? If not, I'm on my way. If so, tuff. I'm still on my way and he can get a divorce.

How beautiful and peaceful! That's what I had in my mind for my 20 gal. HAHAHAHA! Yeah. In my dreams.

I rent here, but... Long story. But if a new buy - the one I'm thinking of - buys this place he seems like the type that mite let me do something like that!

Tangent: Two groups have come to look at this place. Both groups did NOT mention the 20 gal with light, plants, water dish, bird house, snakes, etc. But both DID ask what's in the 90 gal that's sitting on my dining room table that only has like three small pieces of log, which has NOTHING in it!

[zooplan]

That's a good size, Udo. Will it be one single enclosure, or a group of several?
Martin started with a big one and then split into two.
He told me to build more than one partition, so I will build 3 only in the ground so I can split easy if I need.


Actually, we haven't asked Udo (and this is his thread)....:o
Udo, what species will you be keeping in your new outdoor enclosure?
How can you ask, James?

Is it not well known that there must be red sided garters?:cool:
But I´m also thinking about Santa Cruz, Plains, and Ribbons.

[reptileparadise]

Is it not well known that there must be red sided garters?

I had a feeling you where going to say that...

I guess ribbons will be pretty cool as well. Skittish snakes with more then enough room to flee.

Will you do anything with height Udo?

[adamanteus]

Is it not well known that there must be red sided garters?:cool:

I guessed this, but I had to ask!:D

[Lori P]

This is so exciting, Udo. And you do look mighty swinging that ax thing!!! I can't wait to see how this ends up!!

[zooplan]

Will you do anything with height Udo?
The back walls are about 7 feet high so I planed to build dry stone walls there.
They will contain a lot of hides and good basking spots.
I can get native rock pieces from my father.

[drache]

pardon my lack of attention in geography class, but what kind of native rock do you get near Bonn - is it sandstone?

[zooplan]

I do not know any sandstone near Bonn,
but you can find
slate
lava
basalt
trachyt
and Grauwacke
(can´t find an English name)
less than 100 km around Bonn
and we have a lot of different gravel from the Rhein
My parents are living in the Eifel,
and i will get broken Grauwacke from an old farmhouse,
that was broken down in their village

[Stefan-A]

and Grauwacke
(can´t find an English name)

Greywacke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greywacke)

A variety of sandstone. ;)

[zooplan]

oh, so similar:rolleyes:
but there is a big difference in texture to me
from sandstone to greywacke

[zooplan]

After the breakfast with my daughters I could not sit quiet any more and went to the yard of my firm to do another row
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/vor_nach.jpg
I found the pit floated atfer heavy rain last night.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/status2.jpg
The clay was like glued to my spade and shoes but I digged until I had to leave for lunch.

[Lori P]

Udo, where'd you get all that energy this morning?! :-) Looking good...

[anji1971]

I'll say!
I haven't even had the energy to throw a load of laundry into the washer yet.:D
Udo, this project looks like it's going to be very impressive when finished. I can't wait to see!

[zooplan]

I can't wait to see!
me too, that´s my energy source.
I don´t know, if I could work on it tomorrow.
Maybe we can bring a trailer full of clay to the gravel pit and get some sand instead on tuesday.

[anji1971]

me too, that´s my energy source.


That explains it!
A clean house isn't enough motivation for me to apply the same energy to the housework.
If only I could build a snake enclosure in the laundry room............;)

[reptileparadise]

Looks like a mighty fine project!
Don't you just loooooooooooooove clay :D

[zooplan]

Sure, I just loooooooooooove clay:eek:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/clay.jpg

[crzy_kevo]

lol udo
anyways your doing a great job this is sure to be very impressive when done

[Lori P]

I don't know... I don't think he was even sweating in that last pic. Come on, Udo, step it up!!! (Running and ducking):D:D

[zooplan]

There is no crying emoticon:mad:
I need it so much, because it rained again last night
I´m scared, I´ll need a pump to dry the pit.

[reptileparadise]

That sucks Udo!
But always look at the bright side...The snakes watersupply is covered :D

[Snaky]

You had a busy weekend!
Looks like a real nice spot and hopefully it won't rain that much anymore;)

[drache]

poor Udo
I seem to remember that it rains a lot in germany

[Lori P]

Here you go Udo!

http://www.parrotchatter.com/images/smilies/Mikes/m043.gif http://www.parrotchatter.com/images/smilies/crazy_green/cry.gif

http://www.parrotchatter.com/images/smilies/Mikes/m031.gif

I'm sorry for all the rain... wish we could help you over there!!

[GartersRock]

Rofl! That top one is SOOO dramatic!!

[adamanteus]

Udo, I'm sorry to hear it's still raining on your work! Have you been able to make any more progress, despite the weather?

[zooplan]

Udo, I'm sorry to hear it's still raining on your work! Have you been able to make any more progress, despite the weather?
I could do some delve of spade in the capot this morning, but than I had other work.
When I had to leave the pit wasn´t dried although the sun was burning and the temperature has raised to 90°.
The forecast for tomorrow morning is thunderstorms and 8 mm rain.

[adamanteus]

I guess you must dig overnight!:D
Keep us posted on your progress, Udo.

[zooplan]

I´ll make some new photos when I can see a significant difference.
Could not get the trailer yet and don´t where to put all the clay.
As you may know,James;), the soil is redoubling it´s volume while scooped on a heap.

[adamanteus]

I think Sabine might take the clay from you! She said she had no problem getting rid of hers.:rolleyes::D

[zooplan]

Are you sure?
I´m afraid she would only take the cay away when I dedicate my space to her for a koi pond:D

[zooplan]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/level_one.jpg
Please tell me, that you can see a difference to the last photo:p
The rain didn´t come to Meckenheim, so I could dig a little more.
Two feet under the survace I´ve discovered a stratum of solid kaolin that was not able to dig with the spade.

[Garter_Gertie]

Udo, the difference is AMAZING! You've done wonders! I really like the corner situation - great place. You've been working very hard!

[jitami]

Great progress Udo!!! What's the plan now?

[reptileparadise]

Very nice Udo! I defenitly see (some :P ) difference!
You didn't find any romans or mummies yet?

[Sid]

Definately a difference, Udo. I can relate to all the digging in clay. I had to dig out an 8 foot by 15 foot area about 3 feet deep to build our Koi pond. Keep the final produce in mine and you know it's worth all the hard work.;)

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow it looks great!!!!!! good job!!!!:D

[zooplan]

today I was busy at the pen
first I digged the den pit at least with a ladle to get a little deeper,
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/drainage.jpg
than I filled it with small gravel and a bucket full of stones for drainage.
Next step was to build the bottom of the den with big old flowerpots (2),
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/den_bottom.jpg
for insulation I filled two more flowerpots with Polystyrol foam
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/den_insulation.jpg
and fixed the pots with more gravel in the pit
I masked the surface with plastik covered steel mesh,
than masked the steel mesh with 2" of gravel,
shoveled some more clay from the ditch to the wall,
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/mice_proof.jpg
filled it with stone and gravel again and shoveled some soil from the heap back to the enclosure area.
So I think I moved my body weight about 40 :rolleyes: times today.

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow nice!!!!!!!! great progress!!!!!!:D:D

[reptileparadise]

Looks very good Udo!

[infernalis]

That is progressing wonderfully Udo:D

[Gijs & Sabine]

You're doing a great job there, Udo !! Can't wait to see when you're finished :rolleyes:
Has the temperature cooled down a bit over there? It's still ugly hot here ....

[zooplan]

I´ve chossen the cheapest alternative for the sorounding-
polyester wave.
It´s still hot and sunny here.
We are working naked so no pictures today:D

[drache]

that looks amazing, Udo
I can hardly believe how work much you've done

[zooplan]

sight has changed
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/DSCF7406.JPG

but still a long way to go

[reptileparadise]

Nice! Its always wonderfull to see how 1 thing can make so much difference!

[crzy_kevo]

wow udo that is amazing keep up the good work

[zooplan]

I´m feeling like an ant today;),
carrying gravel and soil for hours.
The boundary is finished except for some details.

[Stefan-A]

Oh, how I miss manual labour. No joke, I've only had office jobs these past 8 years.

[count dewclaw]

That's looking really good. Can't wait to see it inhabited!

[zooplan]

Oh, how I miss manual labour. No joke, I've only had office jobs these past 8 years.

You´re invited for help.
I´ll give you bed&breakfast for free at my home;)

[zooplan]

This was at noon:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/noon.jpg
and when I had to leave
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/evening.jpg
and a last look from outside for today
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/boundary.jpg

[jitami]

Udo, the progress is amazing! I have one concern, though, and you've probably already thought about it... with the grooves in the plastic siding, do you think snakes could use the grooves to climb up and out of the enclosure? Is there going to be a secure top, or is it really not an issue?

[zooplan]

The snakes can´t climb the wall:D
I´know there are some similar pens in Germany and snake proof for several years.

[reptileparadise]

Looks good Udo!

Isn't the black plastic going to lead the water to the enclosure? I guess you've got it covered with some sort of drain....

[jitami]

I had a feeling you'd figured that out already :)

Have you already decided on which snakes will stay in the new enclosure?

[reptileparadise]

Have you already decided on which snakes will stay in the new enclosure?


Oh no you didn't! :D
Its Udo...:p

[jitami]

uh oh.. I'm in trouble now... I should know this, huh?

[jitami]

Ok, could it be... parietalis? :D

[reptileparadise]

:D
Thats up to Udo to answer that ;)

[zooplan]

Martin started with a big one and then split into two.
He told me to build more than one partition, so I will build 3 only in the ground so I can split easy if I need.


How can you ask, James?

Is it not well known that there must be red sided garters?:cool:
But I´m also thinking about Santa Cruz, Plains, and Ribbons.

Is it this you were asking for,Tami? :p

[crzy_kevo]

great progress again udo

[jitami]

Is it this you were asking for,Tami? :p

That would be it :o At least I wasn't the only one who asked :)

[drache]

Oh, how I miss manual labour. No joke, I've only had office jobs these past 8 years.
I was just thinking this morning haw it suck that manual labour tends to pay poorly, because I do remember those jobs fondly
I've got a couple of projects waiting for me in the yard, once I finish a few work projects, and I'm quite looking forward to it

[zooplan]

I built a beton barrier (hiddden in the soil) to make it easier to split the pen later if I need.
The decoration will be divided in two parts from the beginning.
The left side (foreground in the pictures) will be the smaller part (about 7 feet)
about the theme "riverside", the right side (about 12 feet) will picture the theme "quarry". The line with the barrier will be a deadwood area as transition of both.
Today I covered the left side with sand, gravel and small erratic boulders.

[infernalis]

A very impressive undertaking Udo:D

Sounds spectacular, can't wait to see the completed project.

[zooplan]

A very impressive undertaking Udo:D

Are you working with a dictionary too, Wayne?;)




Here is todays change!
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/riverside.jpg

[crzy_kevo]

wow udo that looks great are you going to put a bunch of plants in there too or at least fake ones?

[zooplan]

I´m wondering about antural plants like
cork screw hazel bush
cripple pine
ice plants
heather

[crzy_kevo]

sounds good although im not familiar with those plants are they low bush types?

[reptileparadise]

Sound like a plan Udo!
Can't wait to see the result when I come back...

[zooplan]

sounds good although im not familiar with those plants are they low bush types?

http://www.derkleinegarten.de/400_ideen/410_stil/steingarten/bilder/korkenzieherhasel.JPG
Mountain Pine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_pine)
Calluna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather)
Sedum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedum)

I had to search first in German Wikipedia to find the right articles in English. The first plant I couldn´t find at all.

[Stefan-A]

Heather and ice plants are a good idea I think, but won't the other two become a bit too big for an enclosure that size?

[zooplan]

There are very small kinds of moutain pines and cork screw hazel growing really slow, (and after all Gijs can make them bonsai ;))
Another alternative or exra plant may be Common Box.

[zooplan]

one step forward
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/forward.jpg
and the half quarry as detail
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/seite.jpg

[crzy_kevo]

very nice udo just need some green plants to finish it up :D

[GartersRock]

Wow!! That is SOO cool!!

[Snake lover 3-25]

VERY nice!!!!!!:D

[Stefan-A]

Looks very promising. :)

[zooplan]

I´ve bought the first plants.
5 different hardy veronicas
2 dwarf ivy
and a dwarf montain pine
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/fisrt_green.jpg
It´s raining again, so I have to wait untill I can prick them in.
@Gijs I need you to come and make the small tree to look like a big one;)

[crzy_kevo]

udo it looks good and i think the rainwater make for a good look masybe you can make a small pond on that side with guppies in it

[GartersRock]

That is just too awesome!! :D

[Lori P]

Udo, if you make a little beach with some sand next to a water tub, I'LL come live there!!!! LOL It looks GREAT!!

[Garter_Gertie]

Udo, you do have talent. You have to be a creative! It's looking SO GOOD!

[jitami]

It's looking so good Udo! I can't wait to see it finished and filled with snakes :D

[zooplan]

Udo, if you make a little beach with some sand next to a water tub, I'LL come live there!!!! LOL It looks GREAT!!
I don´t believe of that;)
The pen is about 50° north and 7° east.
A military from Italy once told Germany to have 3 moth winter and 9 month no summer:confused:
But the beach is made yet (it´s little):D

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

are you going to take them out to feed them? and arent you worried that they might wedge themselves in between the rocks and you can get them out? besides that GREAt job i couldve never done anything like that

[zooplan]

are you going to take them out to feed them? and arent you worried that they might wedge themselves in between the rocks and you can get them out? besides that GREAt job i couldve never done anything like that

The snakes will be feeded alltogether in the pen.
All heavy rocks are fixed proof, and the smaller gravels won´t hurt seriously.

[Snaky]

It looks great, Udo! I'm looking forward to the final result :)

[Gijs & Sabine]

Looks very good, Udo :)


@Gijs I need you to come and make the small tree to look like a big one;)
I'm sure he would love to help you.......who knows.... in the future :rolleyes:

[Snake lover 3-25]

very nice looks GREAT!!!:D

[Thamnophis]

Looking good, Udo.

You are a lucky guy that you can use that many space.

[zooplan]

I piled up the quarry
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/kDSCF7634.jpg
I shoveled a ton of sand
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/kDSCF7635.jpg
and I planted the plants
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/kDSCF7633.jpg
Last thing to build is the bird and cat protection.

[crzy_kevo]

are there enoguh places to hide or are those still to come but dude you are making the mother of al outdoor garter enclosures

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow looks wonderful!!!!! almost done???

[Zephyr]

Make sure there's a good population of ants in the area to work with the clean-up. :)
Looks great.

[Garter_Gertie]

Udo, you might want to think about some creepy-crawly ground covering kind'a plants. And maybe some natural grasses (the kind that grow tall... Maybe you guys over there don't have natural grasses like we do?????????????).

It is looking SO GOOD! You lucky dog!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good job. Very nice.

[Lori P]

Udo, it's TERRIFIC!!!!! I LOVE it!!

[GartersRock]

Amazing!! Good job!!

[Loren]

Wow!!!



.

[reptileparadise]

Udo, you've made an excellent enclosure! I love it (and I guess the snakeys will as well)
Awesom!

[zooplan]

It´s 22° C and pure sun in Meckenheim.
I´m building the lid for the pen.


First sankes have entered the enclosure!

[Lori P]

COOL!!!! Can't wait to seeeeeeee!!!!!

[count dewclaw]

More pictures, please!! :D

[dashnu]

More pictures, please!! :D

Yea!!!!!!!

[zooplan]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/DSCF7680k.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/DSCF7686k.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/DSCF7683.JPG

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/DSCF7717k.jpg

[count dewclaw]

It is looking very good! Beautiful snakes, too. Thanks for the update and pictures. :D

[Sid]

Udo, your work has turned out an astounding enclosure. If I ever make it to Germany, can I stay in it with your Garters?

[zooplan]

You´re welcome, Sid!

[dashnu]

That sure is awesome Udo! If I ever made something like that I would need to dig a deep deep hole for brumation.. :rolleyes:

/me wonders if it could be done :D

[jitami]

Awesome Udo!!! You really have done an outstanding job! I love it!!!

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

If i was too make an outside enclosure for my garters and i made a brumation den proper drainedge and stuff like that could i leave them out rear round? i mean the pugets are from washington where its way colder and the easterns are found in way coder places than this, so do you think that would work? it would be so much easier and more natural for brumation

[anji1971]

Udo, the enclosure looks fabulous! You've done a beautiful job!:):cool:

[ssssnakeluvr]

that turned out awesome!!!!!

[zooplan]

If i was too make an outside enclosure for my garters and i made a brumation den proper drainedge and stuff like that could i leave them out rear round? i mean the pugets are from washington where its way colder and the easterns are found in way coder places than this, so do you think that would work? it would be so much easier and more natural for brumation

I´m sure it would work well.
It might be necessary to chosse a place that´s partly shady or to water the pen on hot summer days.

[Snaky]

It looks great, Udo! :)
I bet the garters will love it.

[drache]

oh Udo, I am so behind in everything
it seems you're like a magician to create this beautiful enclosure in such a short time
I know with all the grunt work you had to do there's no magic to it, but now it looks like that

[reptileparadise]

Awesome Udo!
I think both the atratus and the parietalis will enjoy every minute of outside air!

[gregmonsta]

Well done Udo :) I bet building it was a blast ;)

[zooplan]

Today will be hot and sunny again.
The forecast is promising 27°C for today.
I´m going to offer first food.

[Gijs & Sabine]

That looks fantastic, Udo !! I'm sure you'll enjoy it very much.
Please take pictures when you feed them for the first time outside......and post it here ofcourse :D

[reptileparadise]

Ditto to that!

[zooplan]

first feeding on September 11.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/DSCF7750k.jpg

[zooplan]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/ready.jpg
the "construction view" after finishing the anti predator lid

[Snake lover 3-25]

very neat:D looks great:D

[reptileparadise]

Yeah, they ate!

[zooplan]

When I visited my parents two weeks ago, we collected some moss-grown wood and further stones for the "quary" zone.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/DSCF8372.JPG
and I´ve made another "capping stone" for the hollow above the den.
Does anybody now what kind of stone it is? ;)

[crzy_kevo]

im going to guess lime stone? :D

[Sitting_duck]

Fantastic, could use a few more plants in my opinion, either way, great job.

[drache]

yeah, from the photo I'd also guess lime stone (Kalkstein)

[Sid]

When I visited my parents two weeks ago, we collected some moss-grown wood and further stones for the "quary" zone.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/DSCF8372.JPG
and I´ve made another "capping stone" for the hollow above the den.
Does anybody now what kind of stone it is? ;)

Nice additional touches there, Udo. That is a great enclosure.

[Sitting_duck]

Why does all that wood have a purplish tint to it?

[Snake lover 3-25]

very nice:D it really turned out to be fantastic:D

[Hornets23]

That looks awesome!

[reptile3]

Udo, looks very nice. Great job!

I am guessing the stone is Lime Stone?

[zooplan]

Fantastic, could use a few more plants in my opinion, either way, great job.

because a "Schrebergarten" is my other hobby I know:

plants are growing!

I´m sure the view will change a lot in spring;)

[Lori P]

It just too wonderful for words, Udo!!!!! :-)

[zooplan]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/limestone.JPG
:D;):D

[crzy_kevo]

ok im not sure about how muhc limestone weighs but now im guesing the material to be not natural so im guessin plastic or some sort of foam

[Stefan-A]

I'd like to say wood, but it wouldn't be the most practical material to use for a stone imitation.

[Lori P]

No, it's solid granite. Udo is just VERY strong!!!!! :D

[drache]

paper mache?

[zooplan]

No, it's solid granite. Udo is just VERY strong!!!!! :D
Off course Lori is right;)



the core is made of polystyrene foam (called Styrodur)
and the coating is a mixture of mortar( a flexible one for tiling) and color
Normally I use both hands to move it:D

[zooplan]

Just a few impressions:

http://www.zooplan.net/images/winterpen.jpg

Snow is really rare here, most of it is tawing when hiting the ground.
http://www.zooplan.net/images/winterpen2.jpg

http://www.zooplan.net/images/winterpen3.jpg
It´s so exciting to see the ponds frozen and thinking about the snakes down in the den.

[infernalis]

am exzellententesten Udo:D

Danksagung.

[infernalis]

Did I say that correctly Udo?

[Lori P]

Well, were you intending to call his wife a walrus?? :D:D j/k

[drache]

there was an extra syllable in the most excellentest, but other than that it was merely unusual

[zooplan]

Thanks a lot for the kind comment, Wayne

I would never ask a poet about spelling ;)

@ lori:
Do you mean I have a bearded wife????:D

[infernalis]

Darn translator software.....

[Stefan-A]

It's looking really good, Udo. :) What species do you still have there in the outdoor enclosure?

[jitami]

That really is impressive Udo!

[anji1971]

The outdoor enclosure project has turned out very well.:cool:
Great job, Udo!

[guidofatherof5]

Udo, Those babies are snug as a bug in a rug from the looks of that enclosure. Great job.

[zooplan]

It's looking really good, Udo. :) What species do you still have there in the outdoor enclosure?

2,3 Santa Cruz Garter Snakes
2,1 Red Sided Garter Snakes
2,2 Plains Garter Snakes

All down to the den, never seen one at least since Nov. 2nd.

[zooplan]

There was a snake basking at the top of the hollow when I left my office this afternoon.
http://www.zooplan.net/images/paul_260209.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Now THIS is exciting. :)

[Snaky]

First snake peeping of the year?
It's still quite cold here ( max 8°C ), how cold is it with you at the moment?

I think this must be very exiting to see your snake again after the winter!

[count dewclaw]

Looking good! I wish it was warm enough here to see garters out basking....

[drache]

so cool, Udo
that must have been wonderful to see

[adamanteus]

Fantastic news, Udo. Now you know for sure that the hibernaculum is right for them!

[guidofatherof5]

That is great news. I don't know how you survived. I was a basket case with mine in the frig. Having them outside! I would have gone nuts with worry. My fear would be that my design would put them in jeopardy.
I have my outdoor area marked off and will start construction as soon as the frost is out of the ground. No matter how good I think I've built it, I still will worry. Hear in Iowa it gets very, very cold.

[adamanteus]

I have my outdoor area marked off and will start construction as soon as the frost is out of the ground.

I am also keen to make a start on mine..... but it's funding rather than frost that's holding me back!:rolleyes:

[Snake lover 3-25]

too cool udo!!!!:D congrats:D

lol well if you have the money i'd add a cheap security camera into the den and hook it up to a computer:) it sure would be neat to see!!!!!!

[guidofatherof5]

I've got my security camera ready. Now, I just need to build the enclosure. Have the area picked out.
Spring will be here soon and I can get started.

[Sid]

Great to see yours are comming out to enjoy a nice day, Udo.:):)

[Snake lover 3-25]

I've got my security camera ready. Now, I just need to build the enclosure. Have the area picked out.
Spring will be here soon and I can get started.

really?!!! do you think you could hook it up to the internet? we had this one camera for our dog when she had puppies.... there was no one home at certain times of the day so all you had to do to check on them was go to the website and there they were! a live feed with sound too!:)

[zooplan]

I couldn´t trust my eyes first, and called the neighbour to look too.
http://www.zooplan.net/images/paul_260209c.jpg
This is Paul my bigger male red sided in the pen.
It was only about 10°C here but the sun was shining for one or two hours, so I´m still excited when I´ll see the next.:D

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow he's VERY pretty!!!!!:D

[zooplan]

Thanks:)
visiting the pen will be the highlight of the EGSA-Membership-Meeting
and I hope that all 12 snakes will be basking then.

[gregmonsta]

Always good to see movement again :)

[jitami]

Awesome Udo!!! Please do keep us updated :)

[reptile3]

Udo, very nice... great looking enclosure, & the snake basking..:)

[crzy_kevo]

congrtulations udo you made them the perfect outdoor home :D

[guidofatherof5]

really?!!! do you think you could hook it up to the internet? we had this one camera for our dog when she had puppies.... there was no one home at certain times of the day so all you had to do to check on them was go to the website and there they were! a live feed with sound too!:)

Yes, this is one of my plans. I plan on lighting the den, also. Just something to enhance the camera. The night vision side of it isn't very good, in my opinion. If and when I do this I want high quality video.

[Stefan-A]

Yes, this is one of my plans. I plan on lighting the den, also. Just something to enhance the camera. The night vision side of it isn't very good, in my opinion. If and when I do this I want high quality video.
How often and how long would the light be on?

[guidofatherof5]

How often and how long would the light be on?

The light to be on for short(minutes only) observation times. Otherwise, I'll let the night vision work. If you have any info. with regards to the light as a problem please let me know.

[Stefan-A]

The light to be on for short(minutes only) observation times. Otherwise, I'll let the night vision work. If you have any info. with regards to the light as a problem please let me know.
Keeping the light on for longer periods could mess with the snakes, but I have no idea if the night vision would. From what I can tell, the light is just outside of our visible spectrum.

edit: apparently garters are sensitive to near-UV wavelengths, near-IR shouldn't bother them.

[adamanteus]

I have no idea about night-vision. But I'm sure a light of any kind would be obtrusive and problematic for snakes during brumation.

[mtolypetsupply]

So nice to see some snakes out, even if it is across the pond!

[guidofatherof5]

I have no idea about night-vision. But I'm sure a light of any kind would be obtrusive and problematic for snakes during brumation.

It has built-in infra-red. Not sure if that's a problem, yet. Will have to research it. I'm very curious about what goes no during that time. I have my ideas but would like to witness it. If it's a bad idea I won't do it. I want what's best for them in this situation.

[Stefan-A]

How about an update, Udo? :) How did the winter go? Any losses?

[HazAnga]

how about even an update as of now, some pix would be awesome!

[guidofatherof5]

how about even an update as of now, some pix would be awesome!

One more thing. Come spend Christmas with my family and build me one.
I'll even carry stuff you need to you.:D

[charles parenteau]

I don't think that would cut it, Stefan..... unless it was 18 carat.:D

hahaha all the same!|!

[charles parenteau]

this is amazing what a nice outdoor vivarium!!THat give me a lot of good ideas!!tanks for sharing my friend!!

[zooplan]

http://www.zooplan.net/images/oe201101.jpg
We have permanent frost.
http://www.zooplan.net/images/reverside201101.jpg
no weeding is possible
http://www.zooplan.net/images/quarry201101.jpg
both ponds are frozen. Hope the snakes are deep in the den.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice update. Thanks.;)