Any Idea what this might be?

[dashnu]

I have seen this garter behind my house about 10 times now. And I have always noticed the "white" scales. This time I decided to catch it and take some photos and stick it back under a rock.

These scales look perfectly normal except white and start at its tail and go all way up to its head just randomly.

http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1prLJ5nXSyn-0Rl33ZSAwu_RZIeOXZUh2SWFtZUWdWbFd8NjwYAVMLSAxACB8I hcLq


http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1p401dKC10R4GGnEJ07rFwhMqu3RoGy4qAZN-1zVpJt5K-QBm8xTozurdlNAaDmCto


http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pjFwFtQfpoqNL6KyswsQa3ghe39TEVS1RP630COW8fImLqu4 u0t7SDNshUqwnU4yN

http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1psSqbKVmXY3ZaSh538F7uHuoJu1MfUXaQrI0WDWxGCmGn_ul m1Z2NS0vVJegvpUbWthe

Thanks.

[jitami]

Interesting! Scarred area?

[dashnu]

Interesting! Scarred area?

Yea im not sure.. I dont think it is from an injury do to the white spots it has all over its body.. An injury would not be spread out like this I dont think..

[anji1971]

Wow.......it looks like it's actually a pigmentation issue. Can snakes have "birthmarks", so to speak??

[dashnu]

Wow.......it looks like it's actually a pigmentation issue. Can snakes have "birthmarks", so to speak??

haha, got me. Thats why I posted it. Never seen anything like it around here.

[infernalis]

That does look like a random lack of pigments.

And no it does not look like any injuries:D

However, This is the first time I have seen that.

[drache]

Scott Felzer has a male anery plains with irregular white patches
doesn't look like this one, but same sort of thing
he's got it listed as piebald

[Lori P]

Very, very cool Brett! I was thinking piebald too.

[GartersRock]

Hmmmm.... I'm interested. ;)

Can I have her. lol!

[ssssnakeluvr]

looks like a piebald garter!!! check out piebald ball pythons...random patches of white....

[bio6464]

That's kinda cool actually, first time I've ever seen that. It appears to be a lack of melanin in a few spots, and not related to any trauma, but that is only a guess. Either way it's a pretty cool snake...I wonder if the spots would be hereditary...:cool:.
Jerry

[dashnu]

Intresting responses. I have seen piebald pythons before and the white seems much more domenent. In saying that, I was not sure this was the case with her. For that matter still am not. Maybe I should go hunt her down again and try to keep her.

[Stefan-A]

In the pictures of piebald pythons I've seen, the amount of white has varied from simple blotches like these, to dominant.

[dashnu]

So... Is this garter special / rare ? Is it a keeper? Is it worth seeing if this trait is hereditary? It would be a fun breeding project I guess :D kinda a surprise.

[crzy_kevo]

i would attempt to breed it and see

but you like me have bad luck finding males :P

[GartersRock]

I would attempt to send her to me. :D I'll pay shipping? :p

[dashnu]

I cant legally sell anything native to Maine. For that matter I am in the process of geting a permit just to be able to legally keep native species captive.

[Stefan-A]

How about giving it away? Maybe you have a pebble or a twig somewhere you'd like to sell for the approximate price of a garter. ;)

[dashnu]

How about giving it away? Maybe you have a pebble or a twig somewhere you'd like to sell for the approximate price of a garter. ;)

Haha, that was my nice way of saying I do not want to sell her. .... I think someone is onto me :D

[GartersRock]

Dang it! Oh well! Good luck with her! If you ever change your mind. ;)

[crzy_kevo]

hey everyone brett just sent me a message on msn and the girl in this pic is giving birth lol maybe there will be some more piebald types he saidf he is video taping it

[CrazyHedgehog]

In the pictures of piebald pythons I've seen, the amount of white has varied from simple blotches like these, to dominant.

I think the pythons are bred - piebald to piebald to increase the white. interesting to breed it against another piebald... but thats pretty rare!

[dashnu]

Well only one has come out folks :( Im not sure what to do other than leave her in peace. Its been 20 or so minutes.

I have moist paper towels in one side with a hide and a bowl of water on the other side. Temp is around 73 day light on. Towels covering the cage to give her a sense of security.

Any thought would be great..

-Brett

[Lulu Bennett]

Brett, i have just had James on the phone for you and he said that it can take from 10 mins all the way upto 12 hours so i wiuldn't worry just yet. just keep an eye on her.
Good luck and message me if you need anything else but keep me updated hun xxx

[anji1971]

Give it some time. I've been reading about all kinds of different time periods in birthing here lately.
Just keep us posted, and I can't wait to see the baby(s)!:)

[Charlet_2007]

id try breeding it to see if the color proves out.. who know you might end up with a leucistic garter some day...:eek:


Well crap sorry didnt see the 4 posts above mine.. HOPE YOU HAVE SOME REAL NICE BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D

[crzy_kevo]

brett what does the one baby look like so far does it have any white spots?

[snakeman]

Piebald trait in ball pythons is recessive.Even the lowest white ones are capable of throwing one that is 80% white!

[dashnu]

The one baby is pretty normal looking.

Still no more babies yet..

every one cross thier fingers for them!!

Thanks Lulu / james / kev :D

[GartersRock]

Good luck!!

[Garter_Gertie]

Dashnu, you took her out of the wild, went LOOKING for her, found her and scooped her up to birth in captivity?

What didn't you learn about Kevie's Preggers? What are you not learning about taking WC, having them birth and then letting them go?

That poor snake.

[GartersRock]

Gertie. If someone knows what they are doing I don't have a problem with someone taking a potential new morph even if she is gravid.

Under most circumstances I wouldn't like it... But with this particular snake...

[dashnu]

Dashnu, you took her out of the wild, went LOOKING for her, found her and scooped her up to birth in captivity?

What didn't you learn about Kevie's Preggers? What are you not learning about taking WC, having them birth and then letting them go?

That poor snake.

This Higher-than-thou attitude around here is getting old quick. Thus is the reason I have not been posting much anymore. There are a lot of great people on here and you know who you are.

In saying that Gertie, please read the entire post. I did not know she was gravid and the plan was to breed her. Fault me for not knowing, what ever but yea we as a forum need to lay off this ****.

[Charlet_2007]

whats the baby count as of right now? this is like waiting to open Christmas presents!!!! i want to know if we have spotted babies and if we do i want one or two please????

[dashnu]

whats the baby count as of right now? this is like waiting to open Christmas presents!!!! i want to know if we have spotted babies and if we do i want one or two please????

Still just one.. It is like christmas. I hope she does well.

/me crosses fingers

[Snake lover 3-25]

good luck!!!! fingers crossed for you!!!:D

[Zephyr]

I heard about this with corns. Apparently, those areas can be subject to rashes, blisters, etc as the snake ages. She needs special care; I think he can give it to her.

[jitami]

This Higher-than-thou attitude around here is getting old quick.

I'm not singling Gertie out here, but as a group I think we do need to be careful to not judge and chastise other members. Showing general concern over something is different than out and out finger pointing. I have no doubt that this is the best place to get information on garter snakes and it seems to be one of the friendliest, most supportive as well. When we chastise a new member especially, we send them out on their own when we could have helped them and in turn helped the animals in their care. We owe it to the posters as human beings(who make mistakes, bad decisions, etc.) and their snakes.... however they were acquired or whatever their circumstances are now. We owe it to them to try to be helpful and not to turn them away. Anyway, this has been bugging me for a few weeks now and I don't know exactly how to handle it. I don't think we need to pussy foot around and constantly be worried that we'll hurt someone's feelings, but on the other hand, I think we do need to maybe think twice before posting when we're feeling emotional about something. Again, Gertie, not singling you out. It seems like it's been happening over and over again with various people. :confused::(:confused:

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

wow, that is really awesome news... there is nothing wrong with what you did, especially as long as you know what you are doing and the fact that she's an oddball, I'm sorry gertie this is NOT personal but there is nothing wrong with picking up a female that you have decided to keep only to have her deliver babies... especially when it's possibly a new genetic trait. it just happened to me again this year, my orange-cheeked girl Marigold delivered just 6 of the BIGGEST sirtalis I have ever seen tonight, and I simply can't wait to see how they color up.

It is wrong when it is done casually, just for the heck of it and for the sake of being included in the baby boom and when it is not viewed on a serious level, if the person is up to the challenge of rearing a whole clutch of babies, and is capable, there's nothing wrong with it.

You probably won't see any white flecked babies this time around. If this a is a piebald or calico-like gene, it is most likely recessive and you will have to save one of her sons for her. What will really stink is if it turns out that she is not genetic and is just a one of a kind mess-up of nature... like the way ringer ball pythons have never proven to be genetically produce-able.

Keep us updated! I am excited for you!!!

[Snake lover 3-25]

I'm not singling Gertie out here, but as a group I think we do need to be careful to not judge and chastise other members. Showing general concern over something is different than out and out finger pointing. I have no doubt that this is the best place to get information on garter snakes and it seems to be one of the friendliest, most supportive as well. When we chastise a new member especially, we send them out on their own when we could have helped them and in turn helped the animals in their care. We owe it to the posters as human beings(who make mistakes, bad decisions, etc.) and their snakes.... however they were acquired or whatever their circumstances are now. We owe it to them to try to be helpful and not to turn them away. Anyway, this has been bugging me for a few weeks now and I don't know exactly how to handle it. I don't think we need to pussy foot around and constantly be worried that we'll hurt someone's feelings, but on the other hand, I think we do need to maybe think twice before posting when we're feeling emotional about something. Again, Gertie, not singling you out. It seems like it's been happening over and over again with various people. :confused::(:confused:

I agree. :(

[zooplan]

another thread, that I´ve missed for a while.
Yes this looks like a very clear defined "piebald" allel on a garter.
From my point of view it´s good, that you´ve taken her, Brett.
We have a few blackbirds each year with this kind of partial albinism, (and this is real albinism, because the pertained scales are lacking all pigments) but they never have along life!

I like this forum for sharing knowledge, photos, experiences, grief and happyness and don´t need more.

[Stefan-A]

What didn't you learn about Kevie's Preggers? What are you not learning about taking WC, having them birth and then letting them go?

That poor snake.
Come on Gertie, that's a bit of an over-reaction.

[drache]

good luck with mrs piebald - I hope she has a good long life, starting a great piebald dynasty
and
I realize that, because of a general sense of overwhelm, I've not been as careful/thoughtful when posting, and I sure hope we didn't scare away that poor boy with the snake with the broken back - I feel really bad about my initial harshness there

[infernalis]

I realize that, because of a general sense of overwhelm, I've not been as careful/thoughtful when posting, and I sure hope we didn't scare away that poor boy with the snake with the broken back - I feel really bad about my initial harshness there

Rhea, I think several of us feel bad about that. Don't be so hard on yourself though. I honestly think that if our new friend had stated that he/she was 14 with no way to get to the vet that the posts that followed would have been an outpouring of offers to help.

Brett - any news today?? Hope it's good:D

[dashnu]

Guys, it has been since 5:00pm EST since the first baby came out. It is now 9:02am and I just woke up. Still no more babies :(

Like I told Don in a PM, the snake looks very "at peace" if you will. A behavior I have never seen from this pitcular snake. She has been this way since the first baby.

[Snake lover 3-25]

i hope everything's ok..... good luck:)

[Charlet_2007]

if she don't have anything by this afternoon id take her the vet....:( is the one little baby alive and doing well?

[dashnu]

i am currently ont the phone with a vet. I will update .

[jitami]

Thinking good thoughts Brett...

[dashnu]

if she don't have anything by this afternoon id take her the vet....:( is the one little baby alive and doing well?

The one baby is doing great, not eating yet but not so sure that is an issue cause he/she is pretty plump right now.

[Charlet_2007]

thank goodness.. what the vet say?

[dashnu]

no word back yet... However I have got some good advise from Wayne via phone and am taking action as we speak. Thanks Wayne my batt. dies in my cell.

I took the second part of his advise and grabed rocks plants and grass from her wild home and placed them in the tank. She is now inside this hide i built out of these materials and not coming out..

Good sign i think seeing before she was just wandering around.

[dashnu]

Welp, she is wandering around again.. I am afraid I am know thinking I am going to take it to the chest and except the fact that after this much time it is likely to be all stillborns :(

**** **** crap

*edit, btw called the vet again, she is still going to call me back.

[zooplan]

wandering around is quiet normal before and during she is givinig birth!
stay calm;)
you ´re acting like a young father while his first child is born:D

[dashnu]

It has been 21 hours.. one hell of a birth :p

The sad thing about your comment is I have two kids and been through two labors ekkkk and they were much simpler than this :D:D I stood there said push and cut some cords rofl

[Charlet_2007]

lol so nothing still? this sucks man im just a nervous as you are... Ive had 2 kids as well not that big of deal tho ive had worst pain then labor lol..

poor little snakie.. i wish i could do something for her.. She's beautiful!!!:D

[Snake lover 3-25]

this sucks man im just a nervous as you are...

me too!!!:(

[GartersRock]

I am freaking here. lol!

[jitami]

Poor Brett... Is there something you can go do for a bit? Movies? Anything to keep you from checking on her for a few hours? Ugh... I couldn't do it. I'd have to keep checking on her and I'm wondering if that's stressing her? Yeah, I have the patience of a gnat when it comes to waiting for things like this. I'd be a wreck! And what's up with that vet? Doesn't she know we're all waiting on pins and needles?

[dashnu]

well some good news, the only baby she has had just chomped down a half a worm and wants more :D

[dashnu]

~1 hour after birth.

http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pY6j8OyGCst8vImwZti6ZExocomMwn_LaEB73tjXREAWuk2q U23RihxZDHfhjlHHd

Today after a half worm.

http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pBbgvJtvbxiEQSnHQ3mL9AfLRldiOJIDwZ4z89y4A0Yr8ZwL uD-q_faR75w5ZMDbb

[Zephyr]

Any signs of odd pigmentation on it?

[dashnu]

nope..

Guess what baby count +1 ANOTHER ONE JUST CAME OUT!!! :D:D:D:D:D

May be more but I am leaving her in peace.

I did just what Wayne said. Grabed a bigger enclouser went outside and built an all natural setup with materials taken directly from her old home.

Fingers crossed for more !!! You rock Wayne! eff-yea!

[jitami]

Nice! Fingers crossed here, too!

[dashnu]

at least three now.. w000h000 push baby pushhhhhh

[GartersRock]

WHOOHOO! Can't wait!!

That one baby is gorgeous!

[drache]

fingers crossed here too, Brett

[crzy_kevo]

woohoo brett fingers crossed for ya

[anji1971]

Well, it's about freakin' time!!:D
YAY.............hope she has a whole bunch for you Brett!

[dashnu]

Ok, I thinks it over :D 13 Total.

I see no signs of the pigmentation seen in the mother.

I will take some photos of the liter and some video and post links. Thanks to all those that helped me out.

[GartersRock]

Sweet!! Glad it's done and over!

[crzy_kevo]

congrats after what was almost a 24 hr labour :D

[dashnu]

More here : Brett's Space (http://brettcurtis.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!3AEC89F95FA8A566!760/)



http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pdxPRbipVvAj1YVUwpX1ckF0V_8RjRAusIfq9_6xE3yeyk2i QVMjcfTnnL6aYkwa-

[drache]

they're so cute
congrats
that was some suspense

[jitami]

Aw, sweet babies. Congrats Brett!

[infernalis]

Alrighty Brett, your turn..... Glad to help out:D


http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/happy.gif

[dashnu]

BrettsCritters's Profile - MSN Video (http://video.msn.com/?user=4245920252848285030)

In the time it took to upload this I have 6 eaters :D

[infernalis]

That's even better news, Out of my whole litter this year, only 1 ate the same day, all the rest ate the next.

[Lori P]

Wow, Brett, what an adventure! Congrats... that one baby is really gorgeous. Can't wait to see the others!!!

[crzy_kevo]

very nice looking babies and cool videos you have that fogger is cool :D

[GartersRock]

They are so CUTE! Congrats!

[Snake lover 3-25]

awwww!!! congrats!!! good luck with them they are so cute:D

[anji1971]

Very sweet! :)
Are you planning to keep any?

[Lori P]

Oh my gosh... I'd watch that baby video over and over just to hear Brett talk baby talk to those snakes... LOLOL!!! And that great accent of yours Brett-- I miss that yankee accent!! :-)

[Charlet_2007]

you going to let them go or you giveing them away for free or selling i want 2 PLEASE!!!!!:D:D:D:D

[dashnu]

Once I get them feeding I will be passing them out to some of the good people here. Just pay shipping.

I will be keeping 5 (3M/2F) for myself, so 8 up for grabs.

[dashnu]

Oh my gosh... I'd watch that baby video over and over just to hear Brett talk baby talk to those snakes... LOLOL!!! And that great accent of yours Brett-- I miss that yankee accent!! :-)

hahahaha... Your a riot Lori!

[zooplan]

Congartulations, Brett.
Thats like a Hollywood movie, allways happy ended.:D

[Lulu Bennett]

Oh my gosh... I'd watch that baby video over and over just to hear Brett talk baby talk to those snakes... LOLOL!!! And that great accent of yours Brett-- I miss that yankee accent!! :-)

I'll second that Bret. that is one hot accent ;)
The babies are beautiful, Congratulations xxx

[Snaky]

Congrats! I heard multiple stories this year about snakes delivering a few babies and then after 1-2 days the rest. Even had it myself. Great that the babies were still alive and kicking! Enjoy them :)

[bio6464]

Congrats bro...and for what it's worth don't let the "opinions" of others stop you from posting.
Jerry

[dashnu]

Just an update. All the babies seem happy and healthy! Eating night crawler peices like they are going out of style.

................and I woke up to a single baby in the enclouser I keep Piggy and this pitcular snake in (for now on known as Whitey).. I do not know if Piggy is popping or if this girl had one baby left in her :eek:

If it is piggy I am thinking any female WC in my area in June/July will most likely be gravid.

cheers.

One more thing. These babies are going to good homes in hope to breed this "white" (for lack of better explination) out of them.

Thanks to the two forum users who are taking the babies and there efforts in possibly helping produce a cool morph. You know who you are and I know they will be under GREAT care!

[infernalis]

Congrats bro...and for what it's worth don't let the "opinions" of others stop you from posting.
Jerry


Thats right Brett, you know what they say about opinions?? :eek:

[dashnu]

Thats right Brett, you know what they say about opinions?? :eek:

Haha, yea something about butts! cant quite put my finger on it ;)

[GartersRock]

Glad to hear they are doing well!!! ;)

Butts. lol!