gravid question

[crzy_kevo]

ok so preggers has only eaten 2 frogs in one sitting since i have gotten her yet everyday i seem to find more fecal matter or urine crystals (that is what the white stuff is called right?) in the enclosure is this normal she ate 4 days ago so it should have all been passed already right?

[crzy_kevo]

funny thing i was cleaning out the water dish because she deficated in it and in some of the feces there was a whole ant
it must have been in the frogs stomach
i dunno i just thought that was intesting

[crzy_kevo]

so does anybody know?

[jitami]

for what it's worth I think it's normal. My guy poops all the time... let's see, he last ate on Wednesday, cleaned the water dish Saturday and Sunday, and had to change part of the paper towel today. So today's poop was 5 days after he last ate :)

[crzy_kevo]

interesting i just thought it was wierd because my other 2 poop twice a week and thats the day b4 i feed them ill feed them every 3 or 4 days

[jitami]

Ah, you know what Kev, I totally forgot something! I did have a few fish in his dish(wow, feeling like Dr. Seuss) and he gradually ate them, eating the last one Friday I think, so nevermind... it still seems like he poops all the time, tho!

[crzy_kevo]

ahh ok hmmm hopefully one of the garter veterans on here can answer this question then

[infernalis]

Kev, the white stuff is the calcium from the bones of the food. Crystals are called urates and they don't seem to keep a schedule.

When you see them dragging a newspaper into the hide, it's time:rolleyes:

Pregnancy affects pooping cycles, much the same as it does humans.

The girl has a bunch of mini snakes inside her abdomen. So pooping is going to be affected, and eating also.

[crzy_kevo]

ok thanks i figured it was something like that i just found it wierd that i have found fecal matter 3 days in a row along with the urates

[Jack Neary]

Kev, the white stuff is the calcium from the bones of the food. Crystals are called urates and they don't seem to keep a schedule.

When you see them dragging a newspaper into the hide, it's time:rolleyes:

Pregnancy affects pooping cycles, much the same as it does humans.

The girl has a bunch of mini snakes inside her abdomen. So pooping is going to be affected, and eating also.

Wayne,
Can you please explain as to why Garters like to poop in their water?
Thanks!
Jack

[Lori P]

Jack, you know, my garters never poop in their water but man, my hognose ALWAYS do. I think it's all a plot to keep us on our toes!

[Garter_Gertie]

It feels good?

[GartersRock]

Rofl!!! Omg!!!! =d

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I once read a quote of stefan's.

"everyone poops easier in water"

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

honestly, I think they do it because its just that.. it comes out easier and they don't get anything on their little snakey bum!

[infernalis]

Its a reptile thing, our lizards poop in the water all the time.:D

I like it, makes cage cleaning a lot easier....

[Stefan-A]

I once read a quote of stefan's.

"everyone poops easier in water"
And I was quoting a farmer, who was telling us about slaughtering cattle.

[GartersRock]

*spews water* Lol!! omg!

[crzy_kevo]

lol funny stuff and another day passes without feeding and there is still more poop

so wierd i thought she was done by now

[drache]

Its a reptile thing, our lizards poop in the water all the time.:D

it's not just a reptile thing



"everyone poops easier in water"

I'm not surprised this quote came from a farmer
cows are made to wade through water on the way to the milking carousels, to get them to poop before they get into the milking stations where the cleaning's a bit more difficult

[infernalis]

funny thing i was cleaning out the water dish because she deficated in it and in some of the feces there was a whole ant
it must have been in the frogs stomach
i dunno i just thought that was intesting


To quote my favorite latino comedians.....

"Hey what's that?" "I don't know, smell it" ewe it smells like poop, nah feel it, ahh it feels like poop, Nah.... taste it. Ugh it taste like poop.

"Good thing you didnt step in it:D"

[zooplan]

most of the threads here are like snake tracks,
never the straight way:D

Good thing I didnt step in it.


BTW: Are you sure the ant was in the poop and not just drowned in the water bowl from anywere else.

[crzy_kevo]

yes i am pretty sure
i haven't seen an ant in my apartment ever so that frog is my only guess plus it was covered in poop

[crzy_kevo]

ok i think she should be popping any day now 2 days ago she stopped eating and the meal b4 that was very small today she is looking around and digging up substrate so i am going to seperate her into a different enclosure with wet paper towels

[adamanteus]

Fingers crossed then, Kevin.:)

[crzy_kevo]

thanks james ill let her settle in i found this nice box a little under a foor tall and the about the same length and width of a 10 gal tank and it has a removable top i dressed it up with a couple of hides one of those sticks wrapped in fake ivy and the water dish so hopefully she wil settle in well

[adamanteus]

Sounds good, Kevin. That lid is baby proof isn't it?:rolleyes::D

[crzy_kevo]

well i am keeping a very close eye on her and i will seal it when i go to bed but i also have the day off tomorrow so it should be fine

[crzy_kevo]

ok i just checked up on her and it appears as tho she may have urinated but there appears to be no urates and i touched it and it feels alittle slimy any ideas?

[adamanteus]

Watch and wait, I guess, Kevin.

[crzy_kevo]

could it be the equivilant to her water breaking i dunno im just throwing out ideas i new to the snake birthing thing

[infernalis]

That's a tough call Kevin, so far I have woke up to litters already crawling around.

There was a mess, but in terms of "water breaking" each neonate has it's own sack of fluid.

Your on the home stretch now, it's all a waiting game from here on out.:D

[crzy_kevo]

ok thanks wayne :D i can't wait

[adamanteus]

Nor can we, Kevin... could you give her a little squeeze?:eek::D

[crzy_kevo]

lol funny joke james

[crzy_kevo]

anyways it looks to me(i might just be imagining this) like she is plumping more a bit past her mid section like she is pushing the babies down to the cloaca she has stopped moving alltogether and if i see her starting to give birth i will take a vid on my camera

[adamanteus]

Exciting stuff, Kevin. Let's hope you get to see it happen... better still if you can film it!

[Garter_Gertie]

Kevie, you got my stomach in knots! This is exciting! You think tonite, huh? Good luck! And try and stay calmer than I am for you!

[crzy_kevo]

lol i am watching her very closely hopefully my friend gets over here with my tank soon

[jitami]

Very exciting Kevin! Get that camera ready :)

[crzy_kevo]

oh dont worry it is always by my side

[jitami]

oh dont worry it is always by my side

This forum has trained you well, eh?

[crzy_kevo]

lol it sure has

[crzy_kevo]

i am watching her very cloesly her body hasn't moved in quite some time the only part of her that has moved is her head and it han't moved much

as well the top of the box isn't even on right now so that i can keep an eye on her yet she still isn't even trying to get out

[crzy_kevo]

ok so for $hits and giggles i decided to put the girls in the box and preggers back in the tank just to make sure i wasn't missreading any signs because she had stopped moving altogether

thankfully she started digging and searhcing and doing all that stuff againand she took a big drink then she buried herself once then continued searching so still hopefully this will be the night

[adamanteus]

I can see you won't be getting to bed tonight!

[crzy_kevo]

ya i problalby won't be ill end up being on the forum all night especially if it happens cuz you know i will post pics right away lol

[adamanteus]

I'll stay right with you as long as I can, Kevin...but it's already gone midnight here. You sure you don't want to give her a squeeze?:D

[crzy_kevo]

lol james if you wanna hit the hey go for it altho im sure ur wide awake from the albino argument

and its only 7 pm here

[Garter_Gertie]

James, you're a love to hang in there like that.

Kevie, I'll stay, maybe to and fro, as long as I can. But I'm a wimp and will be outta here for good long before midnite CST.

[crzy_kevo]

ya and i dont think there is any1 on right now that has actually witnessed the birthing is there?

[adamanteus]

Yes, Kevin, there is.;)

[crzy_kevo]

ok so if i witness any stillborns there are ways to revive them yes?

[adamanteus]

Rarely... sometimes if you rub them they 'wake up'! Shannon has recently done this I think... shame she's gone off line.

[crzy_kevo]

ya i was just thinking that a minute ago i recall kyle reviving one by placing it in warm water and rubbing

[Lori P]

You have to hold each one up and spank them, too...:D

[crzy_kevo]

lol lori that one liner is definately stefan quality :D

[ssssnakeluvr]

I have witnessed many births over the years....if they are stillborn, they are dead, no way to revive them. there are occasions where the babies don't pop right out of the sac and start crawling around.....if they lay there more than a minute, I rub them lightly and pop the sac and get them moving...

[adamanteus]

When my first child was delivered he was so ugly, I spanked the doctor!

[crzy_kevo]

ok thanks for the clarification don

[crzy_kevo]

ok well i am going to put preggers back in the birthing box because she won't sit still in the tank and is now trying her hardest to climb out of the tank at least i know she was calm in the box

[ssssnakeluvr]

When my first child was delivered he was so ugly, I spanked the doctor!
thats funny!!!!!! :eek:

[ssssnakeluvr]

ok thanks for the clarification don
you're welcome! happy to help!!!

[adamanteus]

thats funny!!!!!! :eek:

I should have said 'midwife'... I'm tired!:rolleyes:

[ssssnakeluvr]

I should have said 'midwife'... I'm tired!:rolleyes:
or both!!!!! :rolleyes:

[crzy_kevo]

lol that would have been even funnier

[jitami]

I should have said 'midwife'... I'm tired!:rolleyes:

Now I'm really confused... I can understand how the doctor could be responsible for creating an ugly child with your wife, but the midwife??? :p

[adamanteus]

Hey, it's a joke... there's no logic in there!:D

[adamanteus]

Kevin, I've got to go to bed now... but I'll check this thread the moment I get up. Good luck.:)

[crzy_kevo]

ok well my friend just delivered the 10 gal tank im gonna set it up with the paper towels and see how she takes to it

[Garter_Gertie]

Make sure you put in that birthing thingy she likes so well...

Any new news?

This is driving me NUTZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crzy_kevo]

well i did a quick tank set up 2 hides a water dish and a turkey thermometer with wet paper towel on one side and rdry ones on the other at first she looked around now she is sitting still actually just watching me its creepy

[crzy_kevo]

sorry gertie it prolly won't happen for another few hours

[crzy_kevo]

ok gertie i got some real news for you not a baby but check the pic
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/6889/picture106oc2.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2357/picture107ay3.jpg

see the difference in size in that section it goes bulge-skinny-bulge she is definately pushing babies toward her tail section:D

[Garter_Gertie]

Yes, Kevie! I see it. Christ.

Maybe just a big BM???????????

GOSH THIS IS KILLING ME!!!!!!!!! I'm so happy for you, Kevie. I think you're doing the right thing all the way around and have grown tremendously in the past month/two months.

I love how you're not selfish and put the slithery kids first. Big hugs to you.

[crzy_kevo]

thanks gertie man the suspense is killing me

[anji1971]

Maybe just a big BM???????????


Oh goodness, I hope not!!!:eek:
Kevin will have a nervous breakdown if she doesn't pop those kids out soon!

[crzy_kevo]

it aint no BM she hasn't eaten in over a week and her last meal was a small frog so it passed quickly there aint no more poop in her

[Garter_Gertie]

Well, you're not the Lone Ranger. That's the good news. The bad news is we're [all] seperated from you that are also being killed by the suspense.

You gotta work tomorrow? If so, don't stay up too late. Who was it that said they, the litters, seem to come at nite and they're there when you wake up?

If you don't get a video, I think we'll all live.

[anji1971]

it aint no BM she hasn't eaten in over a week and her last meal was a small frog so it passed quickly there aint no more poop in her

Kevin, you've been staring at the snake so long you done forgot to talk English right.

[infernalis]

Kevin have you not heard the one about watched kettles that never boil?

babies on the way, theres babies on the way..........

[Garter_Gertie]

Anj, can you go over and hold his hand?

Holy-crow. If he loves his GF half as much, she is one lucky girl.

The Jeopardy song is going through my head and I CAN'T MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!!!!!

[crzy_kevo]

she doesn't seem to like the tank that much right now she is doing a lot of looking around im gonna put her back in the birthing box again

[crzy_kevo]

welp good thing i dont gotta work tomorrow i will stay up all night if i have to i got my energy drink i will be fine

[infernalis]

whatever you do, no c-sections OK Kev?:rolleyes:

[anji1971]

Anj, can you go over and hold his hand?
Holy-crow. If he loves his GF half as much, she is one lucky girl.


His girlfriend is a sweetie. I met her too.
I'm sure she'll be more than willing to support him. As long as she doesn't have to get up in the morning!;)

[crzy_kevo]

lol wayne i might have to soon

[crzy_kevo]

His girlfriend is a sweetie. I met her too.
I'm sure she'll be more than willing to support him. As long as she doesn't have to get up in the morning!;)

lol my gf wont be home till around midnight

[anji1971]

Then she might be just in time to be a birthing assistant! YAY!!

[infernalis]

Get a box of chocolate handy Kev:rolleyes:

Keep her distracted, so she don't distract you.:D

[crzy_kevo]

lol maybe just maybe
the first time i brought frogs home for feeding she was like yuck i dont wanna see that then one frog fed later and "wait to feed her the next one i wanna see"

[crzy_kevo]

lol you mean some rees's peanut butter cups
thats what she really loves

[anji1971]

lol maybe just maybe
the first time i brought frogs home for feeding she was like yuck i dont wanna see that then one frog fed later and "wait to feed her the next one i wanna see"

She sounds like my husband was at first.
"They eat live stuff? Eww."
But I notice he now hangs over my shoulder for every snake, every feeding!

[Garter_Gertie]

Kevin, would you PLEASE quit RUCKING WITH HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leave her alone. Let her rest and get comfortable. QUIT PLAYING WITH HER!!!!!!!!!!!

You're not doing her a service by moving her here and there and then back.

PUT HERE WHERE SHE NEEDS TO BE AND LEAVE HER ALONE.

Get it? Got it? GOOD!

[crzy_kevo]

lol since my last post i left her in the box and put the lid on

[infernalis]

well said there Gertie:D play with the computer, talk to us........ but leave mommy alone for a while.... She will appreciate you for it.

[crzy_kevo]

i think i might scrounge uo sumthin to eat im starvin

[infernalis]

call you starvin marvin:D

[crzy_kevo]

im not no ethiopian kid lol

[crzy_kevo]

:( 7 still births so far non live yet

[crzy_kevo]

12 now :( this stinks

[infernalis]

PEEL OFF THE GOO BROTAHA PEEL OFF THE GOO!!!!

yOU MAY BE ABLE TO SAVE THEM, PEEL OFF THAT GOO

[anji1971]

She's having them? When did that start?
All stillborn so far? Oh, man...............
Hope that changes soon.

[anji1971]

Yes, definitely get them out of those sacs. Maybe they're not too far gone.........:(

[anji1971]

Kev??
Oh, I'm so worried now. Maybe I should have gone over to help.
Are there any more yet?

[crzy_kevo]

they aren't in sacs
they are just dead

[infernalis]

Darn, dude, that just sucks:(

[crzy_kevo]

i think the count is up to 25 now

[anji1971]

All stillborn?
Awwww, crap. I'm so sorry, Kevin.
It's not supposed to turn out like this............:(:(:(

[crzy_kevo]

27 all dead im putting her back in with the other girls and tomorrow i am going to give her a fat meal then release her :(

[drache]

oh Kevin I'm so sorry
that sucks
don't even know what else to say
how are you holding up?

[zooplan]

That are bad news.
I feel with you, it´s the worst case a gravidity can end.
She hold her babies to long.

[adamanteus]

I'm so sorry, Kevin.:(

[Jack Neary]

Kev,
So very sorry to hear this terrible outcome after all your eager waiting and anticipation...:( Wonder what causes this to happen? Can anyone answer?
Hang in there, buddy!
Jack

[adamanteus]

Wonder what causes this to happen? Can anyone answer?

I guess no one wants to hear this, but it could well be that the stress of capture causes the gravid female to delay giving birth, while she seeks a means of escape. The babies, once over-due, die inside their mother.:(

[anji1971]

It's really hard to say why the babies stayed inside her too long.
I caught Chili while she was gravid, and since I didn't really know she was, I didn't pamper the poor thing at all. I had her out for photo sessions, swim time, all the handling Deejay was used to. The night before she gave birth, I had her out in the yard climbing the mimosa, and playing in the grass. And she wasn't too happy when I scooped her up to go back inside. Believe me -- I stressed that snake out good.
And she had a perfectly healthy little family.
So who really knows???

[zooplan]

I guess no one wants to hear this, but it could well be that the stress of capture causes the gravid female to delay giving birth, while she seeks a means of escape. The babies, once over-due, die inside their mother.:(
That´s probably right.
I had a bad breeding season as well and I´m still wondering why, even after careful consideration I don´t know the reason, but I´m sure it´s me who is liable for it.
If I could find the cause I would be happy to change it, but from my point of view it was all the same conditions as the years before.

[infernalis]

Anji, so glad you brought that up, very often someone has a completely unexpected litter of babies, and mostly they are fine??

The first time I experienced birthing, it was Xena, and no one knew she was gravid until that morning I woke up to a whole bunch of baby snakes.

There is a lot of possible reasons, over handling may well be one of them.

Since snakes are all individuals, they each handle stress in a different way.

[Stefan-A]

A related question: Can snakes re-absorb their embryos?

[zooplan]

yes, but mostly they do not.

[reptileparadise]

A related question: Can snakes re-absorb their embryos?

Yes, I believe they can, but only in a young stage. When bigger, they have to be 'born'.

[Stefan-A]

Yes, I believe they can, but only in a young stage. When bigger, they have to be 'born'.
Yes, but would they have to be born alive?

[Garter_Gertie]

Oh, Kev. I don't know what to say. I feel so badly for you; you did so well and wanted those babies so bad. I'm so sorry. (((((Kevie)))))

[jitami]

So sorry Kevin...

[zooplan]

Yes, but would they have to be born alive?
???
I had two clutches this year that came to early.
No jelly beans, but premature snakes with bik yolks.

[crzy_kevo]

mom is back to her usual self sitting still doing nothing she is sitting on the computer desk right in front of me not doing anything she seems so tame yet she was like this when i first caught her

[anji1971]

Anji, so glad you brought that up, very often someone has a completely unexpected litter of babies, and mostly they are fine??

The first time I experienced birthing, it was Xena, and no one knew she was gravid until that morning I woke up to a whole bunch of baby snakes.

There is a lot of possible reasons, over handling may well be one of them.

Since snakes are all individuals, they each handle stress in a different way.

Yes, and I've read here about very experienced members who've had terrible results, with captive born and bred snakes. Is that a result of stress? It doesn't seem likely.
What other factors would cause such disastrous experiences? This is something that I've been wondering about.

[Stefan-A]

Chemicals, diseases.. stress.

[GartersRock]

Sorry Kev... That sucks.

[adamanteus]

Stress is a difficult one. It's not always apparent. Different individuals react to stress in different ways, they might appear calm even if they're not.

[Zephyr]

Well, my eastern had babies while I was gone. Due to low humidity most of them died from what I heard from my parents, all before getting out of their birth sacs. T.T
There were also 3 that ended up with deformed bottom halves. I had to put these down myself.
But I did get 3 healthy babies who have survived a lot already...
Anyways, I'm sorry Kev.
I can only begin to think about why this breeding season was a little off.
Oddly, most of my snakes who were caught/bought gravid gave birth to perfectly healthy litters.
Maybe it's not the females, but the males causing the problems... Shooting too many blanks as Reed says.