Intergrades vs Hybrids

[GartersRock]

With all the recent activity involving hybrids...

So the general take here with hybrids is feed, freeze or rehome to "trustworthy" people under the contract that you will not breed or EVER sell, trade or give them away.

What about intergrades? Same rules? Or not? :D

[Lori P]

Sorry... really dumb question... what's the difference exactly?

[Garter_Gertie]

Intergrades. We have them here. A natural occuring mating of different species. In the case here in MN, Common Eastern Garters and the Plains Garter.

[Garter_Gertie]

More like the occasional natural occuring interbreeding of two seperate species where their natural habitats overlap.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

yea integrade is pretty much a hybridization that happended natrually in the wild

[infernalis]

Therefore a sound biological entity created without the interference of mankind.

Harvesting integrates and freezing them would be murder.:(

Keeping one would be interesting:D

But I would need proof that it was not some mutt created in a living room viv. and that is where the biggest question of all arises. Source integrity:eek:

[GartersRock]

So Wayne, you would say that naturally occuring intergrades are fine. But purposefully breeding them is just as bad as a "hybrid".

So... Then if you did have an accidental litter of species that could occur in the wild, the situation would be the same?

[snakeman]

Hybrid and intergrade are two different things.intergrade is abreeding of two diff sub-species.a hybrid is a breeding of two diff. species.

[infernalis]

So Wayne, you would say that naturally occuring intergrades are fine. But purposefully breeding them is just as bad as a "hybrid".

So... Then if you did have an accidental litter of species that could occur in the wild, the situation would be the same?

I never house different species of Thamnophis together in the first place, so I can't really answer that.

I have parietalis and an Infernalis that will never coexist in the same cage.

Sky the Puget, lives all alone, until the day I find another Puget for him to be with.

Things are much simpler that way. Nature happens, and mixing species in one tank spells disaster sooner or later.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

More like the occasional natural occuring interbreeding of two seperate species where their natural habitats overlap.

Very true, however we humans can make non-naturally occurring intergrades, and THIS is truly where the controversy on intergrades is concerned. Hybrids are a totally different arena (really controversial [but this inquiring mind of mine wants to establish proof of naturally occurring hybrids... different tangent to my point!]). Anyways..... (dragging y'all along) An example of NON-natural intergrades might be a California Red-sided crossed with an Eastern or a San Francisco with a Puget.

[GartersRock]

Yeah, I don't house different species together either. ;) Thats just asking for it.

[Stefan-A]

Very true, however we humans can make non-naturally occurring intergrades, and THIS is truly where the controversy on intergrades is concerned. Hybrids are a totally different arena (really controversial [but this inquiring mind of mine wants to establish proof of naturally occurring hybrids... different tangent to my point!]). Anyways..... (dragging y'all along) An example of NON-natural intergrades might be a California Red-sided crossed with an Eastern or a San Francisco with a Puget.
I'd take it one step further and say that a non-natural intergrade would also be one between snakes with one or both parents from a population that does not produce intergrades in the wild. That would for example be a redsided from Idaho and an eastern from Ohio. Perhaps even if they just came from different areas where intergrades occur.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Yes Stefan! The westernmost subpopulation of one ssp. and the easternmost of another won't naturally intergrade, whereas the easternmost of the former and the westernmost of the latter might...

Can I phrase things any more difficultly? LOL!

Steve