Hard Question

[beaniesmommy]

Ok, so as you might know I am newer to garters... I have a vagrans that was our first snake and who really made me addicted to them. But, we are getting ready to go to the spot where we caught him and I am faced with something that is bothering me... Do I let him go or keep him?

He is a nice snake he has never struck at us. He is just un-holdable. He is great for visual entertainment but that is it. Since I have gotten a baby garter (who is really mellow and will let you hold him for hours) I have realized he just might be set in his ways, even after hours of trying to hold him and get him used to us. He is a great eater and has put on some weight since we have owned him. He is definatley in better condition than when we found him. I just think I want to have the tank available for some baby garters or maybe a CB that is calmer...

What do you think? Any recommendations or stories to help me out?

[Zephyr]

I have yet to get any "real" holding out of my vagrans. It may just take alot of time to tame them, but for a snake that seems to like handling, or at least tolerates it, I suggest Thamnophis sirtalis ssp.
So, it's up to you whether you want to try and get him to handling status, keep him as an observable pet, or release.
It all depends on why you got the snake. :P

[Elliot]

That's strange, my vagrans that I just got will sit in my hand for an hour and not move. :confused:

[Stefan-A]

I don't think you're going to find a "holder" in this genus. Keep it as visual entertainment, it's the least stressful option for any snake in captivity.

[GartersRock]

Well... My two males vagrans and 1 of the females are holdable by passing through my hands. And my two other females will sit in my hands. And I only hold then for cleaning etc. =D They are WC adults. So not to sure about that statement.

[beaniesmommy]

Well he was actually brought home to feed to my Pacman Frog, my husbands idea... My daughter and I revolted and we kept him. He is a nice guy, just maybe not what we are looking for... Our Puget is like I said, just way more mellow, we love to hold him... He even sits in my 3 year olds lap for as long as her attention span will allow.

What is the layman's name for this snake? Thamnophis sirtalis ssp.

[Elliot]

Like easterns and maritimes and I think Oregon red spots and Florida blues and a some more I can't remember.

[infernalis]

Andria, you asked:eek:

We have several snakes that I would never subject to much "holding"
yet I would feel an extreme loss without them.

My Nerodia Sipedon (Water snake) is no "holder" by a long shot, I can feed him by holding a minnow by the tail, and he will take it from my hand.

He lives in a pretty hexagon on a stand, and I would miss him so much if he was not there.

Xena my #1 dekay gal, she will wrap around me, and will even throw a fit when I put her back in the tank, by wrapping around my hand. My Puget "Sky" is close.

The corn snake is so handsome, but he once tried to eat my finger, Our Pueblan has the prettiest colors, yet he goes nuts and musks all over whenever any attempt is made to "hold" him.

You obviously feel something for this snake, or there would be no internal struggle, it would be released by now.

So really, if you feel you may regret it later, it's only a one in a million that you would ever encounter that same animal again.

If you find it visually entertaining, whats a little groceries?? Heck, my kids get on my nerves more than any snake ever would, and I still feed them:D

[drache]

first of all, I don't think, getting a particular species guarantees any kind of personality
I have a very mellow vagrans and I have clear examples of two other species, where one is mellow and seems to be fine with handling and another that's so skittish, I don't handle unless I need to

the issue of letting a snake go, is a different one, and I'd have a hard time deciding too

[Snaky]

I never 'hold' my snakes. It's just not something I find fun, not do I think that it benefits the snakes. It's something personal. But if you know that, then all my snakes are 'display' snakes. It's fun to watch them, study their behavior, follow the shedding, birth, ...

So in my opinion, you really don't need a 'holding' snake, it's just as good to keep the snake for viewing. But if you yourself need it that you 'hold' the snake for it to become really interesting for you, then it's best to let it go.

Altough, I wonder how long ago it was that you catched it... Because letting a snake go after 1 year in captivity, I don't find that such a good idea.

[Stefan-A]

I couldn't agree more.

Personally, I've never really understood why some people have to pet their reptiles, handle them or even "play" with them, as somebody put it. I think the snakes enjoy it about as much as a mouse when a cat is "playing" with it. I haven't seen anything below cats, that would have actually shown any interest in interacting with humans for "fun". Of course, you could ask if a cat's or dog's play is just about triggered instincts or if it is about boredom (lack of stimuli). And if that qualifies as joy.

Of course I admit I handle most of my snakes. A minute or so every week. It's a waste of my time and it annoys the snakes.

[zooplan]

I can´t agree to your clear point of view, Stefan!
There are some snakes in my colletion I know for sure, that they enjoy handling or even are interessted in the change.
On the other hand there are other snakes that never like it.

BTW: I have no time and see also no sense in handling theme for another reason than checking their health or putting them to another box while cleaning the cage.

[anji1971]

Andrea, I don't know what to tell you about your snake, other than to agree with Wayne, that if you really feel attached to him and you think you'll regret letting him go, then you'd best not do that!
My first garter, Dojo, was never a "holdable" snake. She musked, bit and generally threw a tantrum whenever I did more than just relocate her quickly for cleaning. Now Deejay, on the other hand, comes flying to the top of the tank as soon as I come near it, so she can come out and walk around. And Chili is somewhere in the middle. She doesn't come willingly to my hands, but once there, she'll hang out for a few minutes. She doesn't like it a lot, so I keep handling to a minimum with her. But no way could I let her go now! She is such a beautiful snake, and I love watching her.
I would say that as long as you get something out of having the snake, whether you can hold it or not, then it's well worth keeping it.:)

[GartersRock]

Agreed! I only "hold" my snakes for maybe 30 seconds, once a week at cleaning time. ;) Although half my snakes are "fine" when held. Will sit still or glide through my hands, and the other half will bite, I enjoy them all the same!! Watching and caring for them is the fun. I mean really. Why do you really have to "hold" them? What are the benefits?

Although... My pickeringii will jump out of the cage into my hands... And so does two of my male and one of my female vagrans... But I wouldn't jump to explain that behavior as enjoying my holding them.

Thats what cats and dogs are for. Although I can't "hold" my 40 lb Canaan Dog and 65 lb Greyhound, they will most gladly try!!

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

I can only say that we should all be aware of the unique human ability to anthropomorphize our pets. We are humans. They are snakes..... lovely, beautiful, and entertaining to us.

They... may look at us as a familiar non-threatening smell or blur or perhaps a warm thermo-regulating arm, but to (for example) think that when we open the cage, they slither towards us and say "Hold me and let's hang out" (and yes, I have been visiting too many pet forums....ohhhhh, all the silly people! It must be some form of an underlying assumption...) I can't help but laugh.

My 2 CB Kingsnakes often give me that "What's uuuuup!?" vibe when I open the door, but I know they're just hungry or horny (spring pending). My WC bolts at the click of a cage latch.

All 3 of my WC garters (Coast, Northwestern, Oregon) are virtually untouchable!

My Sharp-tailed Snake will take salamanders out of my hand (No jerking hand from me, since the snake's less than 10 inches long!); this snake is so small it probably has no clue as to whether all of me exists. I'm just the "Wiggling Finger"!

I may handle my snakes for as long as they allow (usually not long, except on cold days) during cage changes. Other than that I rarely handle my snakes. They don't like it! When I hear "They must like it , otherwise they (those few) wouldn't stick around for that long!" I must mention that, on numerous occasions in handling garters, kings, and gophers in the wild, I have come across a variety of individuals who would chill out on my hand for quite a while before deciding to take a bite out of my finger or release a musky treat (or both)! I am not saying that snakes won't "tame"; I can only say that we should all be aware of the unique human ability to anthropomorphize our pets!

Steven Krause

[GartersRock]

Good post Steven! Totally agree!

[Garter_Gertie]

I love to anthropomorphize. I know what it is, I know what I'm doing. And I agree with everything you've said, Steven. However, I'm going to continue to anthropomorphize my little heart out as it makes me happy! :D

[Stefan-A]

..and as long as it doesn't make your snakes unhappy.

[GartersRock]

Yes Gertie. Just so long as it doesn't cross the line of harming the snakes.... Which I am sure you wouldn't do. ;)

[beaniesmommy]

I agree with at least one thing in all of these posts...

We are not excessive holders, we hold them when we clean there tanks, feeding day and when a friend comes over and wants to hold one in an attempt to rid there fear. I understand it stresses them and we respect that as much as we can.

We do love them and this whole thing is still new to us so of course there is still a bit of novelty to these beautiful creatures. I think I have decited that I am going to let him go and get two same sex babies. For a family like ours (with lots of kids around always) we would enjoy seeing them grow up in front of us, for educational and personal enjoyment of course. :)

Thank you for all of your input, I really do respect all of your opinions!

[Garter_Gertie]

I agree with at least one thing in all of these posts...

We are not excessive holders!


Now, now, now... I intend to hold as you [all] term "excessively." Daily if I can, but I've not been able to. Also, I don't want to disturb unneccesarily. I tend to wait until The Boys are 'up' on something or the substrate. Unfortunately, that reinforces the behavior I don't want from them, to hide. :(

But what I'm doing is feeding when I take out and hold. Holding = food. Workin' on it! LOL!

Got Peepers out tonite and he wrapped around me like my finger was the muzzle of fox! Musked and then pooed! Ish! Wiped his butt and my hand and fed him a fish. Oh! Well! Maybe this holding AIN'T so bad! LOL!!! And he went on to eat two pieces of worm. What a silly boy! Then put him back in the tank. He's zzzzz'ing out.

Jeepers? No way could I entice him to eat. Worm guts, poo, blood - he wanted no part o'it. Skinny ****. I'll try again tomorrow. He's not so easy to feed. He doesn't eat alot. Peepers will eat until he pukes; but not Jeepers. He was full yesterday - couldn't even waddle! We'll see with him tomorrow.

Gosh, I love these guys! They are so pretty and sweet! Smiles, shoe-button eyes, GREAT colors!

My Boys. The BEST there are! :D

[Snake lover 3-25]

I believe that some snakes like handling more than others...... but I just don't like the thought of a pet that you couldn't have any interaction with..... mine never shy from my hand..... all three of them actually come right to it....when feeding them I put them in cages..... and this is the time when they get the least handling..... if a snake crawls up to your hand smells you and then wraps it's self around you.... I feel that you should take them out..... and all three of mine throw tantrums ONLY when I try to return them to their cage..... however.... they are so used to my smell... that if I have touched their food too much they will show no intrest..... and I have to rinse it off..... but if someone new tries to put their hand in the enclosure..... such as my mother..... they will hide..... then I pick them up and as long as the person who wants to hold them is not flinchy they will accept them as well..... the only person other than me that they know the scent of is my friend who has helped me with them since I got them........ :D

[infernalis]

With the above being Andreas last post, and nothing from her in over a month, anyone know what happened?

[Snake lover 3-25]

hmmm... that's strange..... i have no idea.......

[Snake lover 3-25]

O!!!!


Hi Tori Thanks.. I sure do love it here. Everyone is friendly here.

Stephanie. You will love your Dekayi snake :D I just took Bennie outside and she was wrapped around my fingers like I had 3 rings LOL


lol think it's the same person.... either that or they both have the same first name and they both named their snakes bennie!!!:D lol

[crzy_kevo]

actually the person who started this thread is andrea whith a vegrans and the person you are refering to is aundrea with a dekayi

[Snake lover 3-25]

:confused:wow that's really strange!!!! LOL :D:rolleyes: