Your next snake

[Cazador]

Red-striped ribbons... sound great! Green and red pallidulus... you bet! Blue ordinoides... oh yah! How about those orange, black, and white Eastern blacknecks?

Next spring, I hope to acquire a couple of California red-sided garter snakes. I missed a few opportunities last year and passed on a few others. Right now, I'd buy a whole litter, if the price is right. I actually made a full price offer on a litter last year, but cold weather came and prevented a safe delivery. What type(s) of snakes do you want this year?

[Stefan-A]

Dreaming of a Natrix tessellata, Zamenis situlus or Z. longissimus couple.

More realistically, a Thamnophis radix or T. sauritus sauritus couple. There's not much to choose from, to be honest. I don't have the time or the resources to search for them abroad. A sauritus should be easy to find. Ironically, all you have to do is contact anybody who is selling a sirtalis. I contacted a few last year and everybody who was selling a sirtalis, had in fact a sauritus.:rolleyes:

[Valley Pets]

Some Eastern Ribbons are on the top of my list. They are found in my area but are getting more rare. I've personally never seen one! I wouldn't mind getting a pair or two and maybe releasing some of the young back in to the wild to help the population out!
Plus just about anything albino would be nice also!

Ryan-Valley Pets

[ssssnakeluvr]

Would love to get red striped ribbons, California red sides, eastern blacknecks, western blacknecks....well, I could go n all day here!!!! :D

[GarterGuy]

Definitely looking at getting a trio or more of someone's T.s.pallidulus, besides that.....looking at maybe a pair of T.radix. haydeni (or at least that colour type if it's not a true subspecies), T.c.ocellatus or T.e.terrestris.....and then there's always the possibility of baby T.ordinoides popping up from people this summer.;)

[Sid]

I would definately like to add Plains to my collect and Melanistic Eastern. Red Sided are also high on my list.

Sid

[Snaky]

In a few months normally a couple th. cyrtopsis cyrtopsis again :)

After that I will take in a stop, till I move to a bigger place. But 1 day I'll certainly have th. atratus atratus and th. sirtalis tetrataenia.

[abcat1993]

I wouldn't mind a florida blue (the biggest garter commonly sold according to Scott Felzer) or some other blue one.

[Elliot]

Wandering garter or red sided garter, but I can only have one snake at a time so these are just dreams lol

[abcat1993]

Same here. Unfortunately.

[Tori]

I would like to add a nice pair of Oregon Red-spotted, a pair of Eastern "Flames", or Puget Sounds. Or all 3!
Here's to wishing....

[abcat1993]

Actually, never mind. When we go hunting I'll be looking for garters or other snakes for as long as possible (we stop hunting at noon for turkeys)

[Elliot]

When I go rabbit hunting I sometimes see neat stuff, last few times I've seen a ribbon that could have gone 4 feet long (it was huge), a box turtle, which may be threatened or something in this area, a coral snake, and a copperhead. Needless to say I left the latter 2 alone lol

[abcat1993]

I've never gone "wabbit hunting". Though I do love that bugs bunny episode. And it's almost hard to imagine a four foot ribbon

[suzoo]

I have to kick out the fish, and set up another terrarium. Then I would like a trio of Red-sided or Puget sounds, and an albino of one or the other. I would also like an albino plains to go with my girls. I know you asked your next snake, as in single, but I've never been able to stop at just one snake!!!

[Elliot]

I've never gone "wabbit hunting". Though I do love that bugs bunny episode. And it's almost hard to imagine a four foot ribbon

I saw it going across the trail, with a HUGE lump in his middle, very possibly a small bird or maybe a fish? (the woods are by a nice sized lake, good fishing too.) Anyway, when I saw it i was looking at it like :eek: , but then I saw a nice rabbit, he sure tasted good. ;)

[zirliz]

Many types of Garters that seem nearly impossible to locate here in Ireland, even finding Plains is hard, I'd love some Flames, Calfornain ones, Chequered and albino and San franscio ones. Any way seems very hard to find any.

In other breeds I'm trying to get an Egg eating hard again to locate
Rough green
Python
Banana King reserved in shop (So I guess he's my direct next one)

[reptileparadise]

next snake will defenitly be a garter...dont know which species yet, but most likely it will be some fresh blood...(UK/German/belgium breeders)
Most of our "dutch" garters are from 1 breeder. I would like to have some unrelated lines...

[Snaky]

next snake will defenitly be a garter...dont know which species yet, but most likely it will be some fresh blood...(belgium breeders)

Good luck, they are hard to find. Occasionaly they advertise at Kapaza.be - Gratis kopen en verkopen! > home (http://www.kapaza.be).


Many types of Garters that seem nearly impossible to locate here in Ireland, even finding Plains is hard, I'd love some Flames, Calfornain ones, Chequered and albino and San franscio ones. Any way seems very hard to find any.

In other breeds I'm trying to get an Egg eating hard again to locate
Rough green
Python
Banana King reserved in shop (So I guess he's my direct next one)
Maybe some big fairs in the Netherlands or Germany? for example Snakeday at Houten (The Netherlands). It's not that easy, but not impossible to do (I think).

[Thamnophis]

I am going to try !!! to buy no !!! new snakes this year.

I do not know if this will work... :confused:

[suzoo]

I am going to try !!! to buy no !!! new snakes this year.

I do not know if this will work... :confused:

That will not work for me, as I've already saved up a couple hundred dollars for snakes this Spring! :D And I'm still saving. I can't wait...Is it Spring yet? :rolleyes:

[Josh]

my wishlist for 2008 is already ready im done fot this year.
Oregon red spotted
And maybe Cali redsided.

[adamanteus]

I still have a few more to come this year; 1.1 T. s. pickeringii, which I will be collecting from Hamm, and 1.1 T. s. sirtalis (melanistic), 1.1 T. s. concinnus and 1.1 T. o. cyrtopsis which I have ordered from Alan Francis. After that I'd better stop for this year!:eek:

[Josh]

I got the old old no-no face from my dad after he said yes to the radix.

[adamanteus]

So was that a yes or a no?

[Josh]

im geting the radix but no more this year.
wich im very satifies with.

[Josh]

its funny the only reason he wont let my is he doesnt like snakes. I pay for them and the food and all he just doesnt like them.

[adamanteus]

Josh, you're going to love the radix! Compared to them, all other species appear secondary! They're active, greedy, fast-growing, colourful, full of 'personality'. I just can't recommend them enough. Excellent choice!:D

[Josh]

lol
you sound like a kid in a candy store.
You are always tellin us to post pics I never seen any of your radix.

[adamanteus]

lol
you sound like a kid in a candy store.
You are always tellin us to post pics I never seen any of your radix.

Just for you, Josh, I'll photograph them at the weekend...I have 2.4 from various parentage, and they're my absolute favourite, more than my tetrataenia, more than any other reptile I've ever kept. They're just the best. I hope you enjoy them as much as I do!:D

[Josh]

ive been looking out for them for a year now and loved the colors of the mom my babies are coming from. Very bright dorsal stripe.

[adamanteus]

Yeah, that dorsal stripe is so orange, but it's their character that makes them so special....you'll see!

[Josh]

What do you have yours feeding on?

[adamanteus]

Pinkies, fish, worms, anything else that gets close enough! They eat for fun!:D

[Josh]

im already thinking on how im going to be able to switch my guys from fish to pinkies.

[adamanteus]

A simple case of scenting, Josh. You'll do fine.

[Josh]

i dont know but i think ill try pinky parts the week after next. Im goin on vacation.

[adamanteus]

As long as you scent them thoroughly they'll take the pinky parts.

[Josh]

good i cant wait. How are the tetras eating?

[adamanteus]

They're eating, but they're picky. They haven't taken pinky parts for me yet, but apparently they were before I got them! Says a lot about my husbandry techniques!!!:rolleyes:

[Josh]

lol. Well i have all the maritimes eating but only three of th easterns are.

[adamanteus]

It's always a worry for the first few weeks, until they reach a certain size!

[Josh]

i hope it doesnt end up in force feeding.

[adamanteus]

I'm sure it'll be fine. It's easy to get worried, but most of the time they'll eat before it becomes a real problem.

[Josh]

i hope so i usualy have problems with feeding. The garters i had this year paid for my poor husbandry techneique

[adamanteus]

I can guarantee your radix will give you no problems with feeding...to quote Rick..."They'd eat a shoe if you put it in their vivarium"...although Rick was talking about concinnus, if I remember rightly.

[Josh]

lol he is coming back this month right?

[adamanteus]

Yeah, I think he's due back at the end of August. I've kinda missed him.

[Josh]

you make your own vivs right?

[adamanteus]

Yeah, I make my own because I prefer timber to glass.

[Josh]

my dad is thinking of helping me make a viv im think something to the size of a twenty gallon long but also with height. I made the plans with that program stefan posted.

[Elliot]

Where did he post that at?

[Josh]

In my photo editor post,

[Josh]

it is a 3d plannner.

[ScimitarX]

My next snakes will have to be a male T.S Parietalis and a male T. Concinnus. Both would have to be sub-adult to adult as i have a female of each species which are perfectage/size for breeding.

[KITKAT]

I just looked on Scott Felzer's site and found this!

Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes, specializing in aberrant garters (http://www.albinogartersnake.com/available.html)

Scott did not put me up to this... but if any of you are looking for high end garters, he has ALOT of really nice holdbacks for sale, probably due to his apparent plans to move...:eek:

[drache]

wow, James
you mean I'm gonna like my radix better than Sammy?

[Stefan-A]

My next snake will hopefully be a wandering garter. Maybe a parietalis female after that.

[Josh]

good luck. What other gartters do you have?

[Stefan-A]

A parietalis couple.

Actually, my next two or three snakes will hopefully be wanderings. It's a bit complicated, but I'll hopefully have them sometime during the early third week of September.

[Josh]

cool how long you had them?

[Stefan-A]

Not long, a couple of years. When it comes to snakes, I'm about as "green" as most beginners here.

[Josh]

oh i practically grew up with garters. They are very common in this area

[Stefan-A]

Adders are quite common here, but I wasn't allowed to keep them for some reason. ;)

[Josh]

Besides garters salamanders and frogs. not much reptiles or amphibians ive seen:rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

I've kept a few reptiles and amphibians in the past, too. Hymenochirus, Cynops, Xenopus, Eumeces, Bombina, Anolis, Trachemys.. I suppose I've kept Rana as well, since I used to raise and release them in my youth.

Funny, If my search for Chinese and five-lined skinks hadn't failed a three years back, I wouldn't have gotten into garters. :D

[Josh]

same i actualy might get a chance to to house a sand crab and a turtle. Friend brought them home from vacation has them in a tub.:rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

I've had aquariums and aquaterrariums most of my life, but I finally got fed up with all the water and decided never to have anything aquatic ever again. :D

Well, I'm off to work now, but I'll be around.

[enigma200316]

well garters are considered semi-aquatic aren't they:confused:

[Stefan-A]

Some of them can be considered semi-aquatic, but the elephant trunk snake is what I would call aquatic. :)

[Lulu Bennett]

have decided i will be getting t.s.s or t.s.i not sure which though! :rolleyes:

[Josh]

go for the t.s.i. they are beautiful.

[Lulu Bennett]

they are aint they! especially the ones on the pic alan francis sent me. :D i think t.s.i lol

[Josh]

they are veryy simialar to tetras

[adamanteus]

they are veryy simialar to tetras

Yes, they are VERY similar.

[enigma200316]

I want, I want, but I just ain't got the funds......:)
I want to go find a Male Sirtalis for my Female!!!!!!

[Stefan-A]

Yes, they are VERY similar.
Weren't they synonyms for a while when Rossman & friends wrote their book?

[Josh]

I want, I want, but I just ain't got the funds......:)
I want to go find a Male Sirtalis for my Female!!!!!!
Thats why i got a job.:D :cool:

[Josh]

Yes, they are VERY similar.
tetra breed with redsiders right?

[adamanteus]

Quote: [Weren't they synonyms for a while when Rossman & friends wrote their book?] Quote.

Yeah, Rossman didn't recognise tetrataenia as a sub-species, merely a regional variant of infernalis.

[enigma200316]

well I do,but unfortunetly I also have bills too........:eek:

[Stefan-A]

James, any idea why that changed?

[Josh]

i wonder what i red spotter mixed with an aboni checkered would look like:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Stefan-A]

Didn't somebody say long ago that hybrids usually end up looking a lot like one of the parents, or did I just dream it?

[adamanteus]

James, any idea why that changed?

Has it changed?

[Josh]

well I do,but unfortunetly I also have bills too........:eek:
I gues im lucky im only 14:D :cool:

[enigma200316]

I think I remember that to Stefan....just can't remember from where....:confused:

[Stefan-A]

Has it changed?
Well, if they are considered different subspecies now, instead of two varieties of the same subspecies, then something must have happened.

[enigma200316]

your not lucky so much because your 14, your lucky because your parents let you have snakes, mine wouldn't they we're deathly afraid......:(

[adamanteus]

Well, if they are considered different subspecies now, instead of two varieties of the same subspecies, then something must have happened.

I may be wrong, but I haven't heard that they are recognised (by science) as distinct sub-species.

[Josh]

its funny the only reason he wont let my is he doesnt like snakes. I pay for them and the food and all he just doesnt like them.
;) :D i have it to.

[Stefan-A]

I think I remember that to Stefan....just can't remember from where....:confused:
I found it:


I will try to explain.
The biggest part of the problem is that the young will look like one of the parents. For example, like t. s. parietalis. But eventhough they look like them, they also have the genes of radix.
So you cannot tell them apart from "pure" T.s. parietalis.
And maybe it is better to keep species and/or subspecies as pure as possible.

I do not mean that these hybrids are no good snakes or so. Nothing wrong with them. But it is impossible to keep track of them.

[Josh]

Justr for the record i had not plan on breeding the two.

[enigma200316]

yes....that'd be it.........:rolleyes:

[Josh]

well after i get the radix my dad said if i clean the house more often i can get red spots wich im very excited about.

[Josh]

So that is in the near future.

[Stefan-A]

I may be wrong, but I haven't heard that they are recognised (by science) as distinct sub-species.
I understood that there was a bit of debating going on at that time, but that they eventually were recognized, or rather kept, as two distinct subspecies. :confused:

[enigma200316]

well gotta go guys gotta get back to making that viv...I'm almost done..:)

[Josh]

i think if pallidulus and sitalis sirtalis is a diff. sub species. That they should be. THere are even more distinct differnces.

[Josh]

well gotta go guys gotta get back to making that viv...I'm almost done..:)
Good luck.

[Stefan-A]

Good luck with that viv! :)

[adamanteus]

I understood that there was a bit of debating going on at that time, but that they eventually were recognized, or rather kept, as two distinct subspecies. :confused:

I've not seen the paper saying they are a recognised sub-species. I was under the impression that was just "the hobby" that referred to them as tetrataenia, for convenience.

Guys? Anyone know whether or not science recognises tetrataenia as a distinct sub-species? And whos' published work indicates this?

[Josh]

I've not seen the paper saying they are a recognised sub-species. I was under the impression that was just "the hobby" that referred to them as tetrataenia, for convenience.

Guys? Anyone know whether or not science recognises tetrataenia as a distinct sub-species? And whos' published work indicates this?

Im pretty sure this has it.
SF Garter Snake (http://montereybay.com/creagrus/CAsnakeSFGarter.html)

[Stefan-A]

I've not seen the paper saying they are a recognised sub-species. I was under the impression that was just "the hobby" that referred to them as tetrataenia, for convenience.

Guys? Anyone know whether or not science recognises tetrataenia as a distinct sub-species? And whos' published work indicates this?
I did 30 seconds of googling.
CNAH (http://www.cnah.org/detail.asp?id=398)

Barry et al. (1996 Herpetological Review 27(4): 172-173) have petitioned the ICZN to suppress the changes proposed by Boundy and Rossman (1995 Copeia 1995(1): 236-240) wherein the subspecies tetrataenia was synonymized with T. s. infernalis (in part). The remaining populations of T. s. infernalis were allocated to T. s. concinnus. Users of Collins (1997 Herpetological Circular 25: 1-40) should continue to recognize T. s. tetrataenia, the San Francisco Garter Snake, until the ICZN rules on this matter (see Article 80 of the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature).

The International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature (2000 Opinion 1961, Bulletin of Zoological Nomenclature 57(3): 191-192) has voted to retain the historical taxonomic arrangement of subspecies within this evolutionary lineage, rejecting the arrangement proposed by Boundy and Rossman (1995 Copeia 1995(1): 236-240). Accordingly, the subspecies tetrataenia is reinstated (see below) and the races concinnus and infernalis retain their historical definition.

[Josh]

your site is better then mnine.

[adamanteus]

Thanks Josh! There's the answer....tetrataenia retains it's sub-specific status.

I stand corrected!

[adamanteus]

I did 30 seconds of googling.

Stefan, you know I don't google!:rolleyes:

[Josh]

Thanks Josh! There's the answer....tetrataenia retains it's sub-specific status.

I stand corrected!
I never seen tetra look like that i thought the hada a red head and red and Blue stripes?

[adamanteus]

Reading through your link, Josh, I wouldn't be surprised to see tetrataenias' status change a few more times before a definitive decision is made. My personal though is still "regional variation", but what do I know about taxonomy?:rolleyes:

But to bring it back to the point (somebody) made, tetrataenia and infernalis are very similar. Already having tetrataenia, I won't bother with infernalis until I have every other Garter species and sub-species!

I would love to get my hands on some of the Mexican species.

[drache]

since I cannot have tetras and really never had them on my wishlist anyhow, I feel totally covered with my concinnus and never did covet infernalis, but I may still get a couple of fulvus, since Scott just emailed me that he ended up with a couple of small litters after all

[hissy100]

Probably Just another T. Ordinoides

[Sputnik]

I'd still love to have a couple of melanistic garters. But for this year I am extremely happy with my two tetras and two concinnus. The latter are the nosiest little things... they even slither out onto my hand when I open the viv. :)

[Odie]

Probably Just another T. Ordinoides I am with Hissy here :cool:

[ssssnakeluvr]

I want some ordinoides!!!!

[hissy100]

Odie: Since your in Oregon you can probably catch a Ordinoides

[flakgunner]

hey,

In the world of Garter Snakes,anything,other than Plains Garter Snakes,Radix. Up to my neck with them,almost to a piont where we can't cut the grass in the backyard right now.

Joe

[adamanteus]

Let's revive this old thread! What do you guys hope to add to your collection in 2009?
For me, it's still T. ordinoides and any of the Mexican species..... and 'Flames'.

[Stefan-A]

I probably said the same thing last year, but I'm not planning on getting any new snakes this year.

My plan is to keep as many alive as possible of the ones I already have and try to breed them; The wandering garters in 2010 and the viperine snakes in 2012.

[Sid]

Radix are first on the list, then Melanistic Eastern. There's definately more that I would love to have, but those are first.

[Loren]

Santa cruz aquatic (t. atratus), Desert striped whipsnake ( m. taenietus), Coastal rosy boa, California Black-headed Snake (T. planiceps ), Western Threadsnake( L. humilis) .

[snakeman]

Eastern lucys.Maybe a different line of anery eastern than the one I have now.That's about it.

[infernalis]

What I want, and what I'll get are probably 2 entirely different things:eek:

I'd be happy just to replace my Infernalis and Melanistic.

Other than that, any needy or non feeding snakes that I can save will do just fine.;)

[reptile3]

Any garter/dekayi snake that needs a home... NO BIG snakes, I have George!@

[Aundrea]

hmmm lets see a BP, Milksnake, Garter LOL Im bad!!!!! Another Dekayi also :D

Yeah Stephanie you dont need another GOODYEAR snake LOL :D:eek:

[infernalis]

I already have a dozen Dekayi snakes, but that does not rule out any others. :eek:

Sometime I need to do a group photo.

[count dewclaw]

Oh, a female radix (Iowa albino or even a "normal") would be nice. California red-sided is also on my wish list, but may not happen in 2009. Another coastal ribbon, and a blue striped ribbon pair. I could go on.....

[reptile3]

Oh, a female radix (Iowa albino or even a "normal") would be nice. California red-sided is also on my wish list, but may not happen in 2009. Another coastal ribbon, and a blue striped ribbon pair. I could go on.....

I have a question.. is a regular red-sided the same as a California red-sided?

[infernalis]

I have a question.. is a regular red-sided the same as a California red-sided?


No, they are not.

Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis - California red sided

Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis - Red sided garter snake

They are close.

Here is my deceased Infernalis (R.I.P. Inferno)

http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/babs/ferno.jpg

http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/garter/inferno_1.jpg

[reptile3]

Ohhhh i see, ok.. thanks

[jitami]

I have a question.. is a regular red-sided the same as a California red-sided?

OH Good.... see Reed? I'm not the only one! LOL :D Love ya steph!!! Reed and I had this same little conversation via pm just this afternoon :o

[jitami]

What a great topic! Thanks for reviving it James!

Since joining the forum I've had my eyes on pugets... didn't want to deal with "you know who" and missed most of the baby season last year... so new for 2009 will be beautiful little baby pugets :) Unless I'm just too incredibly tempted by an offer I can't refuse, preferably in black, blue, or grey, it will probably just be the pickeringii babies next year :)

[Snake lover 3-25]

my goal is to not get ANY this year!!!! and i really really hope i can keep it lol:D

[Snaky]

I will only get a female vagrans this year. I'd like to have some blue pickeringii to, but it's just impossible with the room I have. I'm just going to enjoy all the different species I currently have and breed with some of them :)

[drache]

thanks James
it's nice to see this thread pop back up
I even read some of the early posts and got a bit nostalgic
yeah, I have a wishlist - oh do I ever
and right at the top is more space
even if I don't get that, my next snake will probably be an eastern - either a melanistic male or a female flame, possibly a florida blue male (really like that girl, Shannon)
there are garters not likely to be available to me that I will find space for should I come across them, but I'm not actively looking

[jitami]

there are garters not likely to be available to me that I will find space for should I come across them, but I'm not actively looking

That's a very good way to put it Rhea :) Now that I've made plans for the pugets I'm kinda keeping my eyes open(snakes & dogs, actually) but not actively looking.

[olive oil]

I would love to get my son a corn.
I think I'm going to wait until our Garters grow a bunch more,
then I will have another baby to watch grow up.

[Lori P]

Black necks. That's really the only thing on my list this year... but my list ends with "and anything else that appeals to me" LOLOL

[brain]

my goal is to not get ANY this year!!!! and i really really hope i can keep it lol:D

So good luck with this loafty goal :eek:
If I just get one I'll be happy

[ssssnakeluvr]

I can't go a year without getting any....would drive me nuts!!!! :cool:

[drache]

I can't go a year without getting any....would drive me nuts!!!! :cool:
yes, me too I think

[Scaley.Jade]

next year im hoping to get 2 blue pugets and a male radix

[Snake lover 3-25]

i know.... but i have to do it.... i can't bring any more than 5 to college!!!! well.... i can't bring any to college but i can't sneek any more than 5 into college lol:p and i only have 1 55 gal tank...... which should hold 5 adults just fine:D

[GartersRock]

Vivid Line or as nice Bairds Ratsnake pair

I have a huge list of what I want. But I am actively searching for that right now as my NEXT snake. ;)

[KITKAT]

I am actually cutting down right now... looking for a home for a pair of wanderings that Don sent me.:eek:

You don't want them, do ya Don?