How Do You Tell if the Female is Gravid?

[Jack Neary]

Sorry for all the questions...:confused:
I have soo much to learn about th new eastern Garter pets I have found!
Thanks, everyone!
Jack

[infernalis]

Does she crave pickles and ice cream?:confused::rolleyes:


Jack, Can you get some clear photos?

[ssssnakeluvr]

photos will definitely help...the last third of the body in front of the cloaca will be fat....

[Jack Neary]

Is my Garter a female? I don't know... Is she(?) also gravid or just too well fed?
Please see the attached pictures.
Thanks, everyone for all your help and patience with all my questions!
Jack

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn365/nearyj/IMG00032.jpg

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn365/nearyj/IMG00031.jpg

[crzy_kevo]

as far as i can tell its female and how much have you fed it
if not much then most likely gravid

[Zephyr]

Female and VERY gravid.

[Jack Neary]

as far as i can tell its female and how much have you fed it
if not much then most likely gravid

Thanks!
She has eaten a small frog on Friday and also ate 2 minnows...

[crzy_kevo]

ya shes gravid she shouldn't have much longer maybe a couple weeks i think

[Jack Neary]

Thanks again, everyone! This is soo exciting!!! What do I feed the babies? Will they be hard to feed?
Thanks!
Jack

[crzy_kevo]

they might give you a hard time as far as i know any small versions of what u would feed an adult snake

[Jack Neary]

To pepare for my gravid(?) garter's upcoming delivery of her babies?
Just want to make sure I am fully prepared....
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Jack

[crzy_kevo]

well what i have done is seperated her from the others in her own enclosure and have used papers towel as substrate (damp one on one side of the enclosure)

this way if she delivers when i am not home the other snakes wont be able to get to the babies and as well with the paper towels the babies wont have bit of substrate stuck to them and they won't bury under it so i can make sure i have all of them

hmm i wonder how no1 caught this post

good luck jack

[Jack Neary]

well what i have done is seperated her from the others in her own enclosure and have used papers towel as substrate (damp one on one side of the enclosure)

this way if she delivers when i am not home the other snakes wont be able to get to the babies and as well with the paper towels the babies wont have bit of substrate stuck to them and they won't bury under it so i can make sure i have all of them

hmm i wonder how no1 caught this post

good luck jack

Kevo,
I was just wondering if there is a different Temp and/or Humidity that you try and reach help move things along?
Also, is there less stress on them when they are placed alone in seperate housing?
I have 2 Garter's that are either well fed or both Female and....gravid???
Also, is there a time that will prove these 2 snakes I have are just well fed? In other words, if either of these 2 garters has not had their babies by Mid-August, does that mean they were not gravid?
Geez, the wait is killing me already

[Jack Neary]

well what i have done is seperated her from the others in her own enclosure and have used papers towel as substrate (damp one on one side of the enclosure)

this way if she delivers when i am not home the other snakes wont be able to get to the babies and as well with the paper towels the babies wont have bit of substrate stuck to them and they won't bury under it so i can make sure i have all of them

hmm i wonder how no1 caught this post

good luck jack

Kevo,
Maybe a dumb question, but will my other 2 Garter's eat the babies of the gravid Garter if I'm not there when she has them?

Any advice would be appreciated!
Thanks!

[crzy_kevo]

any1 on here would tell you the same thing although cannibalism is rare in garters there is still a chance that they myab eat the babies and everyone advises to get them seperated from the mother ASAP

um as for temp and humidity that is a god question and i am still new to this too so hopefully some1 with experience will be able to tell us


and as for if they are wel fed or not my question is have you fed them since you have gotten them because if you had them for at least a week and not fed them and they have deficated but still look fat then i would say they are definately gravid

[jitami]

Jack, if you've recently acquired these two females odds are very strong that they are gravid. From what I've learned the other two may not eat the babies, but it's too much of a possibility to risk it. What do you plan on doing with the babies once they're here?

[Jack Neary]

Jack, if you've recently acquired these two females odds are very strong that they are gravid. From what I've learned the other two may not eat the babies, but it's too much of a possibility to risk it. What do you plan on doing with the babies once they're here?

Tami,
I have another 10 gallon Terrariom tank I plan to use for the babies.
I plan to care and feed them with the utmost care!
Thanks!
Jack

[crzy_kevo]

your do realize just how many babies you are going to have if both of the girls are gravid right?

that is going to be a lot of babies i would suggest releasing a good amount of them back where you found the mommas

[jitami]

Tami,
I have another 10 gallon Terrariom tank I plan to use for the babies.
I plan to care and feed them with the utmost care!
Thanks!
Jack

And I'm sure you'll do very well, but you could end up with dozens of babies! :eek: What I meant was what do you plan to do with them long term :) That's a lot of little mouths to feed for the rest of their lives ;)

[jitami]

Kev, you're always one minute ahead of me... and I type fast... I must just think slow :) We're definitely on the same page, though... figuratively and literally I guess! :D

[crzy_kevo]

ya well i guess i type faster lol
and yes this is the whole reason i released that huge gravid girl last week and only decided to keep the smaller one
it would just be too many babies and the big girl especially looked like she was going have 20 babies at least
with the smaler one i think i might have 8 or so

[Jack Neary]

Tami and Kevo...
Please don't misunderstand...
I plan to release all but maybe 2 o3 back back to where I found them. I would not want these babies to suffer because they were not well fed, or cared for etc...
I found my 2 Females in Mid-June. They are both good eaters of Nightcrawler worms and Minnows. (I have tried to get them to eat the Talipai and Pinkies I bought them, but no luck........)
Is August too late for them to have babies? Is there a date whereby I can say these are just 2 well fed Garter's and were not gravid?
(I can't seem to feel any babies in both there underbellies...?)
Thanks!
Jack

[crzy_kevo]

wel how often do you feed them because 2 or 3 days after you feed them they should appear smaller unless they are actually fat
or what you can do is wigh them every few days and see if they are gaining weight at all if they are then they must be gravid

[jitami]

Tami and Kevo...
Please don't misunderstand...
I plan to release all but maybe 2 o3 back back to where I found them.

That's what we were getting at :) You seem very caring and I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job caring for the babies. I'll let the experts here field the question of how late in the year you could still expect babies or when it's safe to assume they're not gravid after all. Really, though, I would guess most mature females, found in mid June, are probably gravid :) Lots of babies means a greater chance for species survival and garters seem to reproduce quite well most of the time!

[crzy_kevo]

ya and for me the majority of them are female in my area im sure of i haven't found one male this year lol

[Jack Neary]

That's what we were getting at :) You seem very caring and I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job caring for the babies. I'll let the experts here field the question of how late in the year you could still expect babies or when it's safe to assume they're not gravid after all. Really, though, I would guess most mature females, found in mid June, are probably gravid :) Lots of babies means a greater chance for species survival and garters seem to reproduce quite well most of the time!

Wayne,
Could you please advise, if you're reading this post?
Thanks!

[Sid]

Jack, Garters here in the south normally start producing the young in late June until late August. Some are as late as September. Your area is colder than where I live, so I would guess that September is even more normal for births than here. Hope this helps a little.

[anji1971]

Around here, we have different times for birthing. My first garter had hers at the end of July. But Chili, after a milder winter, gave birth in mid-June. I've seen babies earlier, and later than that outside.
I'd say by the end of August, beginning of September, you'll know for sure one way or the other.;)

[infernalis]

Jack, Look for your PM.

[Jack Neary]

I have been actually hearing my one Garter, Samantha (whom I think is gravid...?) actually "wheezing" or breathing hard. My gut is telling me somethings wrong with her... She seems like her breathing is a little labored? More so than my other Garter, Jacqueline, whom I REALLY think she's gravid. She's huge!!!!! Both have turned away from eating their favorite meal of earthworms yesterday....:rolleyes:
Both were wildly caught in mid-June. Anyway, want to ensure I am doing everything possible to give them the very best of care, food and proper vivarium space. (Wayne, followed your advice in creating a "Baby delivery box" with moist moss, etc)
As such, found a highly recommended herp vet nearby and made appointment for Thursday AM mainly to address this breathing/respitory concern I have and to verify if they are both gravid and MOST importantly.... healthy!
I truly believe this is money well spent as I hope the vet can treat my ever growing Garter population! (I have 2 baby Florida Blue Striped Garters arriving tomorrow AM) That darn Scott Felzer strikes again!;)
Need to buy more Terrariums... Wonder if PetsMart gives a quantity discount? LOL (I'm their new best customer!!!)
My wife said if I find or buy any more Garter's or supplies I will need to buy a tank to live in by myself...:p
Regards,
Garter Addicted Jack

[infernalis]

You are my hero Jack Neary:D

That darn Scott Felzer he's the "candy man" flashing just the right fix to make a junkie lose control.

[Lori P]

Good luck at the vet and let us know what he says!! :-)

[Sid]

Keep us posted, Jack. Sounds like it could be a respritory infection.

[jitami]

Guys, I'm really new at this, but if she indeed does have a respatory problem wouldn't it be wise to remove the moist hide for now? I think mom's overall health outweighs her finding a comfortable spot to birth? Should he also raise the temps? Anything else before he can get in on Thursday? Then againk, Thursday is only 48 hours away, but I would still try to do whatever I could in the meantime.

Jack, please keep us posted on your girl. I'll be thinking about both of you.

[anji1971]

Best wishes. Hope everything turns out alright.

[crzy_kevo]

hope everything goes well jack

[drache]

raising the temps is a good idea, but leaving the damp hide is fine as long as there are sufficient dry areas

[Zephyr]

I've heard some of my larger garters as they breathed before, especially my radix and Cremepuff; I've always attributed it to the sheer size of the individual. If you listen really closely to smaller garters you can hear them breathe too. But if it's really bothering you and is very noticeable then a qualified vet is the best way to go. :)

[zooplan]

I would raise temperature only until 86° and won´t reduce humidity because breathing deseases are often caused be dusty dry surroundings.

[jitami]

Thanks Udo & Rhea... this is the best(or at least the most fun) way to learn. I wasn't sure what protocol would be, only knew that there had to be something that could be done in the meantime.

[Jack Neary]

Guys and Gals (Fellow Garter Addicts)...
Just returned home from the vets with my 2 Female Garters. My main reason for going to the vet was to check on the suspected Respitory Infection of my one snakes, Samanatha.
My suspiscions were right... She does have a lower respitory infection. The good news is it was caught in the early stages and with the antibotics (that I need to inject with her every 3 days) she should be OK soon!
I also wanted to have the Vet confirm the sexes of both my Garters. Well, I am the proud owner of 2 Females. However, according to the Vet, neither are gravid:( The Vet checked over both snakes thoroughly to feel for babies and check for a themo plug(I know I butchered the proper name)neither one had this plug....:confused:
Both apparently are well fed and growing larger!
Jake (now renamed Jacqueline) is also not gravid, but had a bulge on her left side, which was the other reason I wanted to go to the vet.
According to the vet, he claims she must have had some kind of trauma when she was young; whereby a rib was broken or deformed...? Fortiantely, she'll be OK without the missing rib.
Although I'm disapointed either my females are not gravid (Could have fooled me..!!!) I'm glad to I trusted my gut regarding her "wheezing" when she breathes to take her in to the vet....
This was money well spent indeed!
Thanks for everyone's concern and well wishes!
Regards,
Jack

[crzy_kevo]

thats good new jack glad your snakes are going to be fine :D

[Garter_Gertie]

HOORAY! Now that's a dedicated, caring person. You made the correct decision and are caring for your snakes as you should.

[jitami]

Thanks for the update Jack. Glad you followed your instincts regarding Samantha. Sounds like she'll be in tip top shape in no time!

[Lori P]

Great update Jack, and I'm glad Samantha will be ok. Good call!!

[Sid]

Thanks for the update, Jack. Really glad everything is going to be OK.

[infernalis]

Great news Jack.. Treating the snakes can be interesting. Did the vet show you how to get the needle under the scales?

When sky was prescribed his antibiotics, it was an oral suspension, so I had to find a way to get this stuff down his throat every day.

injecting his food worked out well.

Oh and ditto what Gertie said.

[drache]

good news - I mean that you caught the RI in time and everything else is fine
and I bet you enjoyed meeting the vet

[Jack Neary]

Great news Jack.. Treating the snakes can be interesting. Did the vet show you how to get the needle under the scales?

When sky was prescribed his antibiotics, it was an oral suspension, so I had to find a way to get this stuff down his throat every day.

injecting his food worked out well.

Oh and ditto what Gertie said.

I gave Sam her first antibotics shot with the vet holding her. He said I did OK... Ouch!

Was still kind of hoping to be handing out bubble gum cigars soon though...:confused:

[zooplan]

much is said already, so:
good news are always welcome,
thanks for sharing

[anji1971]

Glad to hear everything will be alright. :)
Too bad about the non-gravidity (is that even a word?) though!

[Snaky]

That's always good to hear that they will be allright :)
Better luck next time with getting them pregnant ;)

[Jack Neary]

Guys and Gals...!
You won't believe this...!
Do you remember my post from my visit to the Herp Vet, whereby he said my 2 females were not gravid? Do you also remember my 26 posts asking Wayne and the forum "Are my Garter's gravid"? DOH!
Guess what.....?
Just got home a little while ago after doing some shopping and a quick stop by Petsmart to buy some more Minnows. Went down to the basement with the new minnows and some pinkies and what do my wondering eyes see in Jacqueline's and Samantha's 20-gal tank?.... 4,5,6, no... 7 brand new ....whoops, make that 8 little tiny baby eastern garter's! Good Job, Jacqueline!!
However,....found 7 stillborns:(:( I wish I would have stayed on baby watch
detail, but I gave up after my visit to the Herp Vet when he told me both of my Garter's were NOt gravid...LOL ROFL.... This way too funny.....!!
Once again, trust your gut, Jack... idiot! (Darn Vet)
Much work to do... More tanks, add Garter room onto house, Hmmm...:eek:;)

Now... Ready for PartII?
Gulp...! What about Samantha? My other, supposedly NOT gravid female, who's is as big as a house! (Just like Jacqueline was a few hours ago!!!)
I'm going to go boil some water and tear-up wife's good bed sheets!:D

Stay tuned.... fellow Garter addicts!
Gotta go see about getting a refund from my Herp Vet!;)

Some early pics...
nearyj - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://s321.photobucket.com/albums/nn365/nearyj/)

[ScimitarX]

Congratulations:D What a nice surprise.

[Lori P]

Well, for an ungravid female, she sure did have some pretty babies for you!!

Good old vets... gotta love 'em... this is lind of like when my boss assured a lady last year, after blood tests and an ultrasound, that her horse was not pregnant. But the pics of the foal we got recently seem to somehow have proved him wrong....

[Garter_Gertie]

Well.

I found this when breeding Abys (Abyssinian cats). Yeah, vets are much needed... HOWEVER, the fancy is usually more right than a vet that knows nothing about your breed.

Not to say vets aren't needed when they're needed, but for stricly species correct info, trust the fancy. Day in, day out, they're the ones that love, sacrifice, watch, learn, do and practice their given species.

I'll always listen more to an Aby breeder - or garter/hoggy breeder - than I will a vet.

Oh, and by the way... CONGRATULATIONS!

[Sid]

Great job for a non-gravid Garter. Congratulations!:D

[adamanteus]

That's great news, Jack.... obviously a miracle!

[GartersRock]

Congrats!!
By the sound of it. The vet went mostly by whether he could feel babies or not? You can't always feel 'em. ;)

[infernalis]

Christmas on August 2nd???

Congradulations Jack.... I have to wonder about your vet, must have scored that snake credentials in a box of cracker uhhh Jacks.

Ok Jack, everyone else has had the kitty, it's your turn:D

http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/happy.gif

[anji1971]

Well, congratulations!!
That's a nice kind of surprise, and they look very cute!:)

[Jack Neary]

Christmas on August 2nd???

Congradulations Jack.... I have to wonder about your vet, must have scored that snake credentials in a box of cracker uhhh Jacks.

Ok Jack, everyone else has had the kitty, it's your turn:D

http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/happy.gif
Thanks, Wayne... I honestly don't know what to think about my new Herp Vet? Please, don't misunderstand me, I'm glad he was wrong;)
I thoroughly appreciate all their years of training and his sincere efforts, but how could he miss this call? If you look at my pictures of Jacqueline that I posted 4 weeks ago, she was huge then and was even bigger when I took her to the Vet? I was even questioned his diagnosis (he based it soley on both my Garter's not having the themo-plug, etc...), I based upon how I have seen her overall girth continue to increase since I found her in early June.
I am watching my other LARGE female, Samantha to see if she also will have some babies soon?
Thanks for all your help!
(sorry, again about little Magma...)
Jack

[GartersRock]

Because vet's think they know it all when in reality they don't really know much. *covers mouth and hides*

[Jack Neary]

Good Morning!
Well, I kept up up my baby watch last night until 12:30AM, as I thought my other Herp Vet non-gravid diagnosed, Samantha, was OK and not acting as if she was going to deliver any babies soon, so off to bed I went.... I mean his non-gravid diagnosis could not have been wrong twice about the 2 fat bulging Garter's I brought him. Could it? ROFL....
Woke up at 5AM and went down to the basement (aka... Garter emporium;)) and there on the side glass of 20-Gal was a little baby Sam crawling in the Carefresh... Wow...! Santa comes again!
I carefully moved through the tank's Carefresh substrate, as not to stress Moma Samantha, and found 9 VERY ACTIVE beautiful and... most importantly, dark colored healthy babies! I did not find any stillborns at all:D (Oh, I also found another baby from yesterday's delivery of Jacqueline's babies, skipping through the Carefresh:D (How did I miss him?)
Thought, while my wife is still sleeping, it would be a good time to knock-out a wall and get started on the garter room addition;) What do you guys think? Maybe not? OK... LOL
Can you guys answer a question? It appears, from reading the many posts this summer, regarding the timing of when Garter's have their babies, most of the babies appear to be born in the middle of the night? If that is true, why is that?

I'll post some pictures as soon as I can...
Regards,
Jack

[Sid]

Jack, the litters that have been born here are at all times of the day and night. I think more during the day though.

And congratulations again.

[zooplan]

Happy Birthday to your babies,
and happy birthday to you father Jack:D

[infernalis]

Jack, holy cow man, Congrats again!!!

Now I do seriously wonder about the vet;)

Ours is a real sweetheart, I have learned so much from her, and I have taught her a lot too. (She had never seen a Puget sound garter, now she asks how that little pickeringi is doing, she's a sharp lady)

Concerning birthing times, We have dealt with several litters, all at various points in the day, no real set time.

[adamanteus]

Congratulations on even more babies, Jack! You lucky guy!
I have never really noticed that the babies are born at any particular time.... I've woken to find them already born, and I've witnessed births during the day. It seems 'random' to me. Maybe it's different in the wild?

[drache]

congrats Jack
yup - start on that garter room
I've not had many, but my garters gave birth in the afternoon

[GartersRock]

Rofl!! See!! I told you!! Rofl! ;)
Congrats!!

[Zephyr]

I'm beginning to question how much the herp vets out there actually know about reptiles.
I think the main problem is their having a lot (maybe) of "book smarts" but not any "street smarts."
Congrats on the babies. Easterns are so cute when they're leetle. And big. :)

[Aundrea]

OMG what an EXCITING suprise!!! I would have LOVED to see the look on your face when saw her with all the babies :D That is such a nice present!! CONGRADS!!!! :D

[Aundrea]

WOW Congrads AGAIN!!!! Damn this is your lucky weekend eh? What does your wife think about all this excitment? LOL. My bf is scared of snakes and has nothing to do with Bennie LOL I love them little tiny babies!!!! SOOOO CUTE i cant wait to see pics!!! :D When you handing out the cigars? LOL

[jitami]

Congratulations Jack! I'm very glad to see that the vet was wrong :)

[Snake lover 3-25]

congrats!!!!!!:D good luck with the little ones!!!:D