Social hierarchy?

[Lori P]

This may have been covered before (heck, this may have been covered last week for all my memory is worth lately, lol) so if it has, forgive me.

I've been wondering if garters living in a group form a hierarchy of any sorts? For example, in my garter tank it seems to me that Mordecai rules the day. The others move out of her way. (She HAS to be a female, she's so huge. I know, I know, get pics up here.) Often when she is cruising the tank, the others stop and let her pass. Does that have meaning? Are they defering to her? I just saw her slide across the front of the tank, and Reed withdrew out of her way. Is she the queen of their little colony?

Also, at what age are they sexually mature? I want to know how long I can safely leave her in with her boys before moving her to her own home. She's not quite a year old. Don't want any "mistakes".

THANKS!!!! :)

[Garter_Gertie]

If *my* memory's any good... I think it's two years - for sexual maturity. For females. I *think* it's +/- 12-18 months for males.

Someone who knows for sure will jump in. This will be good to see if I remembered correctly.

[Stefan-A]

I'm not convinced that they have any sort of social hierarchy. I haven't seen anything that would suggest it and I can't really come up with a reason why they would have such a thing, since they don't appear to live in groups.

[infernalis]

I have to agree with Stefan (as always) My theory would be that since the female is bigger, the others are just "stepping aside" to avoid conflict.

[gregmonsta]

If *my* memory's any good... I think it's two years - for sexual maturity. For females. I *think* it's +/- 12-18 months for males.

Someone who knows for sure will jump in. This will be good to see if I remembered correctly.

I did read that sexual maturity can happen earlier ... and my 10 month olds have already shown their wishes to find the female :rolleyes: pecocious little boogers!!!

[anji1971]

I think they slither aside mainly because she's bigger than they are, Lori!:)
When I put Deejay and Chili in together, I watched to see their behaviour. Deejay kept lashing her tail whenever Chili came near her, and at first Chili would backtrack/avoid. So I wondered the same thing you did about hierarchy.
But now that they've been together a few weeks, Deejay still sometimes lashes her tail, and Chili just crawls right on over her anyway. In fact, I think she does it on purpose sometimes!!:D But I see no evidence of one being "in charge", so to speak.

[Zigmund]

i also think that a hierarchy type thing has formed in my tank but im not sure, my male wont eat until the female eats her fill of worms. they are still just about the same size and are the same weight. im not sure weather he is just being gentlemenly or what because there not even a year old yet

[Garter_Gertie]

...im not sure weather he is just being gentlemenly or what because there not even a year old yet

I as gulity, or more so, than the next person of anthropormorphasizing...

I've this mental picture of James and Stefan screaming and pulling out their hair! :D:D

[Zigmund]

anthropormorphasizing, what a strange word, my vocabulary skills have slipped away momentairly but i take it that from unsucessfully googling it that it means somthing like associating an animal or person with the other?

[Stefan-A]

I as gulity, or more so, than the next person of anthropormorphasizing...

I've this mental picture of James and Stefan screaming and pulling out their hair! :D:D
How about this mental picture: What hair would James be pulling? :D

Yeah, not a huge fan of anthropomorphism.

[Stefan-A]

anthropormorphasizing, what a strange word, my vocabulary skills have slipped away momentairly but i take it that from unsucessfully googling it that it means somthing like associating an animal or person with the other?
"the attribution of uniquely human characteristics to non-human creatures and beings, natural and supernatural phenomena, material states and objects or abstract concepts."

Anthropomorphism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism)

[adamanteus]

I don't believe there is any social hierarchy in snakes. Thankfully, I'm already bald, or I would be ripping my hair out at the thought of a snake being 'gentlemanly'.

[Zigmund]

thank you stefan

[Lori P]

Thanks for the input. It doesn't seem impossible, tho, does it, because when we confine them to a tank, they have no choice but to live in a colony, do they? They can't exactly move 200 feet down the hill.

I call my roosters "gentlman" when they bring food to their hens and then step back and let them eat. More hair flying? :-)

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

I would agree that there is no social heirarchy. Instead, I would think such behaviors to be based on intimidation, perhaps in ways too subtle for us to even perceive as "bullying". On the rare occasions where I have put corns (sorry, I know it is a Thamnophis site!) together, it is always the bigger snake that eats first, picks the best basking spot first, etc.

Even calling this "intimidation" might be far-fetched; perhaps there is no intent - bigger snake, faster snake, more experienced snake ....gets what it needs first!

[drache]

my snakes just slither over each other
when feeding snakes that are housed in groups, I always feed the biggest one first and I've seen the little parietalis try to grab food from the almost twice as big eastern - no "deference" there
they may congregate, but I doubt there's anything we would recognize as social structure