Red Eastern project

[infernalis]

If you look close at my gravid gal, there is a lot of red highlights..

http://www.reformedsniper.net/GSM/gravich.jpg

now here is the male..

http://www.reformedsniper.net/GSM/chief.jpg

and him again..

http://www.reformedsniper.net/GSM/wbr.jpg

and her in a strange angle..

http://www.reformedsniper.net/GSM/hreg.jpg

Now, after she has these babies, if I were to hook these two up, should I get a few with this high red trait? They both have a cream white dorsal too.

[Lumpy]

Isn't that what Zephyr refers to as a Northeastern Eastern? Kinda like mine?

http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/43622/2413801340065220144S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2413801340065220144ygBDCW)
http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/42994/2323241620065220144S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2323241620065220144jdaowp)

Lump

[Loren]

very nice snakes.

[snakeman]

It would probally take a couple generations before you would see any real red.

[infernalis]

So it may take a couple generations to bring out any real reds?

Would that require back breeding? Or could it be accomplished with say introducing another "fresh blood" with similar reds?

What if I set aside a small group of the females, and let Magma have at it? (would the introduction of an Extreme red phase flame speed it up?)

I'd REALLY like to cross Magma with an Albino or Snow Eastern...

Amelanistic Flame, now that would be a purty serpent:D

Lump - Nice snakes!!!! Like that hide log too....

[Lumpy]

Wayne,

The two pics are of the same female Eastern I caught. Hopefully she'll be having her babies soon.

I can't recall who makes that tree stump hideaway. I call it her "doghouse".

[infernalis]

Lump, How many years you been catching garters?

I have for almost 30, and this year I find 2 with this red, but never before that?

Almost always olive and brown.....

[Lumpy]

LOL!! More like how many weeks!

She's my first snake. My wife and I unknowingly destroyed her hunting grounds while digging up new flower beds along our house. She found poor shelter by a corner of the house and didn't move for 2 days, so I took her in and gave her a home.

I could count on half of one hand how many times I've seen snakes in the wild. I just never seem to see them. And your talking to a hunter who's in the woods a fair amount.

Lump

[infernalis]

Damn Lump, Now I feel bad, I read all about that find in a previous post.

I'll tell you this much, and anyone can challenge away if so compelled..

I lost count how many snakes I have picked up over the decades, and this red trait is NOT common at all.

Look at all the nice photos on here, then single out all the Easterns with red sides and white dorsals, how many are there??

[Lumpy]

Well, Zephyr is another Michigan guy and much, much more of an authority on native Michigan snakes. According to him, the red trait is very localized in the north east. But i guess not that uncommon at least in Michigan. If it is rare, I should have played the lotto the day I found my Eastern! Like I said, I've maybe seen 3 Garters in all my 44 years.

When I was in high school and first moved to Michigan, I used to see a lot of Hognoses. They scared the hell out of me. And the only reason they were plentiful was the subdivision I lived in was new and under construction. All that clearing kicked up snakes. Hissing ones!

Lump

[ssssnakeluvr]

the babies could have red on them, however you might have to breed the siblings to each other to really bring out the reds. once you bring out the red color in their babies, you can then breed those to other easterns to increase the gene pool.

[Snake lover 3-25]

my wc easterns are pinkish orange....


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//604/medium/snake_0051.jpg

[infernalis]

Shanley - Those colors wow, and they seem to suit you so well:)

I like Don's idea, what the heck, I have plenty of Scott Felzer babies to play with, why not keep a few of the offspring, cross the two reds, let Magma have a shot at a couple of the girls, and see what happens in the next half decade or so.

I just hope someone else likes red as much as I do:D

[Snake lover 3-25]

yeah that's meadow and her baby here's a second of the 18 babies what a big difference!!!

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//602/medium/IMG_5715.JPG

[infernalis]

spoiled rotten, pampered snakes... Me like:D:D

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol she has to be she's about to pop!!!!!!!!!:eek:

[anji1971]

Lots of the garters around here look like yours Wayne. (I'm only about an hour away from Kyle).
I have found several without any red as well, but I'd say the majority have it in the sides. All of Chili's babies have orange in the sides which will most likely deepen as they grow. Only one has hardly any. Chili herself has a deep burnt-orange colour to her sides.
I'd like to see what happens if you keep breeding them together. They should be pretty critters!:)

[Garter_Gertie]

Wayne, your boy's beautiful.

Tell'ya what I'll do to help you out... I'll hold a couple of the babies for you. Until you need them, you know? Lighten your burden.

What are buds for? Huh?

Shanley! You crack me up! LOVE all your color coordination! And never thought to put a cat bed in a snake enclosure - but makes sense! Poor fat mama. You go, girlfriend, you're taking the BEST care o'Sooty.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Thoe guys are what I call "pretty potter county garters"

the more pretty specimens I find there look just like your pair wayne... what I would do is when you manage to pair the two... hold onto the babies and grow them all up a few inches so that their true colors start to show.. then you will be able to find you pick of the litter as far as coloration goes.... and then you go from there!

[infernalis]

Thanks for all the encouragement.:D:D

[enigma200316]

wayne nice snakes............:)

shannon where do you live?

[crzy_kevo]

i live in southern ontario and the garter i picked up is all red probly why he liked the rotting railroad tie as a home so much
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1701/picture019ca6.jpg
when i get my bigger tank i have to go looking for a mate for this little guy

[Snake lover 3-25]

Shanley! You crack me up! LOVE all your color coordination! And never thought to put a cat bed in a snake enclosure - but makes sense! Poor fat mama. You go, girlfriend, you're taking the BEST care o'Sooty.


lol thanks... i got the idea from Lori P it's actually just a small mouse bed and it's washable!!!!!!

[Lori P]

Shanley, don't they love that bed?!! My garters are constantly in it. I need to go back and get more of them for all the snakes!!

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol sooty is almost too fat to fit!!!!:eek:

[crzy_kevo]

i just noticed something about george today when i feed him and his neck area is bulging hes has an orange/red bit of colour under his scales like yours do wayne so aparently i have a red eastern too :)

[KITKAT]

I find that color here fairly often, and have already started raising some babies that I selected for this trait. However, as they grew, one of them turned green.

Below is a pic of their momma... she gave me 41 babies, 40 were live. Out of that brood, about 18 of them had the red/orange sides to some degree.

One of the holdbacks that I am keeping has a golden tone all over... really pretty! The green girl is getting huge...

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/tiger_lily_002rs.jpg

[Garter_Gertie]

Shanley, don't they love that bed?!! My garters are constantly in it. I need to go back and get more of them for all the snakes!!

Lori, what's a "mouse bed"? Never heard o'such a thing. Where did you get it?

[Lori P]

I found them at Petco, in the small animal aisle, by all the hides and food. But I got the idea from Shanley to begin with, when she made a soft bed for her snakes from some popsicle sticks propping up some fabric!

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/a_big_soft_bed_MINE.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/big_soft_bed_m_m.jpg

[infernalis]

That top picture rules!!!!

I love those close up face shots.

[Garter_Gertie]

That top picture rules!!!!

I love those close up face shots.

Ditto!!!

Ditto!!!

Mouse beds? Huuhhh... Will have to check the kind'a rodent aisle where they have the hampster/gerbil stuff. Glad a national chain as I WANT SOME!

[Zephyr]

Lump's right; In one of my Peterson field guides it states that specimens in the northeastern part of the eastern's range tend to have this coloration; I see it in almost a 3/1 ratio around here, with the majority having the red in varying amounts, and sometimes orange or yellow in place of the red. They're not quite flames, as I've found a wild flame once and the actual scales were red, but a class of their own seeing as the color is between the scales. I don't think it's a dietary influence either and is probably genetic. I'll try and find some pics of red, oranges, and yellows between the scales.

[Zephyr]

Here are a few pics of snakes I've found with this trait; they're actually quite common around here. The one that's supposed to be orange is one of my girls and she's in shed right now and was flexing when I took the pic, so she wasn't in the best of moods or poses.
In order of appearance: Red, orange, red, yellow.
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/73/img0483ur2.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4415/img0593at9.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/976/img0509ep6.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7281/img0560pu6.jpg

[crzy_kevo]

ya thats the same coloration george has right under the scales on the upper part of the neck

[charles parenteau]

Nice looking garter.that a good start for flame project for sure,years after years with a good selection ,that giving you more red or orange. nice !!|!

[infernalis]

Now I have 2 high red (extreme) flame males, I will use them as fathers, and the red phase for mothers.

so when my red phase mother pops, I'll be keeping females.

Hopefully I would like to produce enough flames that everyone who wants one can stop dreaming and get one.:D

[beaniesmommy]

I want to be on the list of someone who wants one... :p

[crzy_kevo]

i wish i could be on the list but im in canada :(

[beaniesmommy]

Well he is in New York... Drive over for a weekend. :)

[crzy_kevo]

ya but i can't bring them back darn government
maybe ill get lucky and find one they can be found around lake erie which i am right next to

[Garter_Gertie]

Now I have 2 high red (extreme) flame males, I will use them as fathers, and the red phase for mothers.

so when my red phase mother pops, I'll be keeping females.

Hopefully I would like to produce enough flames that everyone who wants one can stop dreaming and get one.:D

Fine. I'll buy a male. Put me on the list. Peepers and Jeepers are boys. I'll take a male off'un your hands. FURSHURE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't want to breed. I'll be happy to take 1-2 males you may want to hold onto in case you want to use them in breeding. BUT.... I need to know I'll get them back or something like that. I don't want to loose my babies. :(

[infernalis]

Fine. I'll buy a male. Put me on the list. Peepers and Jeepers are boys. I'll take a male off'un your hands. FURSHURE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't want to breed. I'll be happy to take 1-2 males you may want to hold onto in case you want to use them in breeding. BUT.... I need to know I'll get them back or something like that. I don't want to loose my babies. :(

Yea, I cannot keep the males, numbers have to remain manageable.:eek:

[infernalis]

Just a quick update to this thread....

At the rate Masubius is growing, He should be ready for breeding by spring. My female is already a proven mom, so I do plan on breeding her to the male high red flame.

Fingers crossed at what the kids will look like.

[snakeman]

Mate you high red flame with as many females as you can.The females do not have to have any color .you will still get some high red babies.Usually about 25% come out with red.When you do high red to high red usually about 50% come out high red.Good luck.

[infernalis]

He's gonna be a real stud muffin.

[KITKAT]

Hey Wayne... put me on the interested list. I have kept a female that I call "Big Momma". She is still a baby, but is growing well. She has reddish sides but is otherwise a normal.;)

[infernalis]

Sure thing Kit, It's nice to see you around, even if it is just a little.

I have not forgotten to respond yet, I still have your message saved in my "inbox"

The closest points to google search are Watkins Glen and Corning NY

If you recall what you asked?:D

[charles parenteau]

Hi all Im back !! i was real busy for a while .show you some picture ,its quiet right now many of my garter are in hibernation...
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/Photobrulureetbbfo0015.jpghttp://http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/mai-juin20080089.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/mai-juin20080089.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/Photobrulureetbbfo0003.jpg

[Stefan-A]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/Photobrulureetbbfo0003.jpg
Nice one. :)

[snakeman]

That's an awesome looking snake.

[anji1971]

Welcome back, Charles.
Nice pictures! I'm fond of the orange one myself.:)

[ssssnakeluvr]

http://http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/mai-juin20080089.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/Photobrulureetbbfo0003.jpg

holy cow!!!!! i love that snake!!!! I want one!!!!!! or 2....maybe 3????? :cool:

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

that right there, is a SHOWSTOPPER!

look at how the stripe fades away as it goes down... how COOL!!

[brain]

ANDREA
What snakes have you found in the wild down there? I'm lookikng for the rubber boa.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Welcome back, Charles.
Nice pictures! I'm fond of the orange one myself.:)
it is a nice one!! got one myself....:cool:

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//504/orange_21.jpg

[olive oil]

Oh my Don, what a beautiful snake!

[Snake lover 3-25]

beautiful snakes:D

[charles parenteau]

yes Don its a nice looking snake ,its really orange ,its so hard to take a good picture of orange garter ,the color or bad on picture and don t show the real color ,on your picture we can see the labial scale full orange so nice...its very interesting.

this female with an half vertebral strippe was caught on my friend terrain ,by chance she still alive .there is nothing there by now everything is destroy .she almost 32 inches long,From Laprairie quebec.shes in my fridge right now .

i did format few day ago .I lost picture somewere on my pc look to find more photos.

[reptile3]

everyone's snakes look great... love the orange Don!!:)

[NikkiSixx]

http://http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/mai-juin20080089.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/parenteau/Photobrulureetbbfo0003.jpg

holy cow!!!!! i love that snake!!!! I want one!!!!!! or 2....maybe 3????? :cool:

Yes, yes a million times yes!:D:D

[drache]

that snake is giving me ideas
what if I bred Sammy, who is almost black with some small red spots on the side, with a flame?
would I possibly end up with a good percentage of very dark snakes with more red on them?

[brain]

The two pics are of the same female Eastern I caught. Hopefully she'll be having her babies soon.

Lumpy do keep us up to date. This is an interesting coloring for an eastern.

[charles parenteau]

Hi Shanley ,do you have any recent pictures of your orange pink eastern???

[enigma200316]

since i wasn't around to comment before i will now...lol, that redish side is very comming in the easterns found where i use to live in western pennsylvania, however the dorsal is not, in the 3 years that i lived there every garter had some extent of the redish side.......:D