Body structure and tail length

[infernalis]

Since my foray into more diverse species of garter is somewhat of a recent obsession, all prior experience has been Easterns found in my own yard.

Now I am acquiring garters from other regions, and I have noticed something, I'm looking for any takes on this...

Garters from further out west seem to have much longer slender tapering tails compared to Eastern varieties.

http://www.reformedsniper.net/GSM/DSC03164.jpg

My Puget seems to also have a longer more tapering tail.

[ssssnakeluvr]

now that I think about it..my wandering males have longer tails than the easterns....never really noticed it before. that is one awesome looking red sider!!!!! I need some like that!!!! :eek:

[Garter_Gertie]

Wayne, like... And this is just me... How can you tell the tail in that picture? You're seeing the entire length o'the snake. Isn't the tail from the cloaca down? Wouldn't you have to look form the under side? So, wouldn't distance - as in longer - be determined looking at the bellies? Like put the cloaca side-by-side and then you'd be able to tell if they truly are much longer and more tapering.

Or, is this another eye-rolling ideas o'mine?

[infernalis]

If you were to look at the overall structure of that red side in the water,
it nearly mimics the body of an arboreal snake. (one that lives in trees)

The final third portion of the snake is almost whip like.

An eastern has a much sharper taper to it, the diameter is the same until about the last quarter to fifth. resulting in a more "blunt" appearance.

[Garter_Gertie]

Oh. Can you do a comparison pic so I can *see* whatchew mean? It would really help me. If not, I do get the jiist as I see what you mean by 'whip-like.'

[Garter_Gertie]

(standing with arms crossed, nose high in the air) Then you should say last third of the body, which includes the tail.

(sniff)

[Garter_Gertie]

Now that you have discovered this, dear Wayne, you must continue on and figure out WHY. Very cool observation. But what good does it do the animals? Or is an animal not dependent on every single nuance in its body structure for survial?

[Zephyr]

I noticed this on the snakes Don sent me (wanderings): Compared to easterns, they have massive tails that barely taper until the last 1/3 of the tail itself. Even the females!

[infernalis]

Now that you have discovered this, dear Wayne, you must continue on and figure out WHY. Very cool observation. But what good does it do the animals? Or is an animal not dependent on every single nuance in its body structure for survival?

Everything has a reason, perhaps this extended rear end aids in swimming?

When I look at that red garter, it is if it can glide through that water just fine.

Here around me, I tend to find Easterns under logs and boards, more of a terrestrial based snake.

The western snakes seem a bit more aquatic, and maybe the extra tail taper is for extra speed and grace while pursuing different prey items.

here is a red eastern I found out back, look at the rear end.

http://www.reformedsniper.net/cane/red.jpg

[Garter_Gertie]

Oh wow. Way big difference.

[Stefan-A]

I noticed this on the snakes Don sent me (wanderings): Compared to easterns, they have massive tails that barely taper until the last 1/3 of the tail itself. Even the females!
I can confirm this, at least as far as my snakes are concerned. I tried yesterday to sex my vagrans (already been sexed as females) the old-fashioned way by looking at the shape of the tail, but I have to admit, I couldn't say for sure. I even thought I saw a minute bulge behind the cloaka of the smaller one. They do taper, but they are massive.