'Houdini' boycotts panfish worms...

[LyrisFlame]

... and demands food that isn't toxic.:rolleyes:


http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/LyrisFlame/DSCF5319-2.jpg

So this is my little Rick 'Houdini' James. He's WC, probably not all that long after birth. Thus far he's shed twice.

He's been a finicky eater, but I just found out why: he thinks I'm trying to kill him with poisonous worms. Understandable, but in my defense I've only heard of the infamous "red wigglers" being called panfish worms once, and that was tonight after searching these forums for an hour or two. Had I known they were the same thing, I'd have stopped way sooner. Obviously.

He's only eaten two or three since we caught him and refuses to even consider it now. They mostly just crawl around and then dry up. He still seems bright eyed and bushy tailed, zipping around the tank, chillin' in the pool, etc. I don't think I've done any irreparable harm.

So now I've got some whole trout on ice, and I'll thaw it tomorrow and try to feed it to him if he ever forgives me and comes out of his impenetrable fortress of a log.

How do I go about feeding him this fish? It's still got the skin and bones and eyes and, well, everything except it's life.

Do I cut it up as is and just make sure the pieces are small?

Is it important to include the bones, nutrition wise?

And the skin?

Thanks in advance.

[Stefan-A]

Yes, feeding the snake with a whole animal is preferred. Otherwise it's recommended that you add calcium and vitamin supplements. You can cut a large fish into pieces of suitable size (muscle tissue, not intestines), as long as you remove any bones that are sticking out.

[Jenlang_79]

He's been a finicky eater, but I just found out why: he thinks I'm trying to kill him with poisonous worms. LOL...funny..thank god nothing happened to your beautiful snake!!:-)

[infernalis]

Now here is where I am utterly confused, please bear with me.

Xena, Casper, Athena, Red, Princess, spot, Zig and all the babies born in this house have all had and ate with no ill effects pan fish worms, many for extended periods of time.

With no forums to guide me, no experts to ask any advice of, only my observations in nature and information found on Herp sites, not knowing any better, I have fed this for years.

Now I wonder if maybe our house is not built over an Indian burial grounds? Have I accidentally killed them all, and now I am caring for un-dead zombie snakes?

So far our Corn Snake seems to be the only one that has a taste for human flesh.

Sorry about the goofy humor, But now I do have to wonder about the worm thing......

It just seems to me that if these worms were as bad as what I have been reading as of late, Then I should have seen a dead snake in there somewhere.

http://www.reformedsniper.net/snakes/images/hpim0377.jpg

http://www.reformedsniper.net/1/1gravid.jpg

[Snake lover 3-25]

how can you be sure that they were pan fish worms????:confused:

[Zephyr]

Ya know, I have a theory. In the spring I bought a culture of african nightcrawlers, a relative of the red wiggler. I dumped them into my pen and they've become established in the substrate. Occasionally I'll see one of my snakes eating them, usually Fatty, Lime, or Lemon when she was still with me *With Don now, not dead. XD*. The other thing I noticed is that both of the snakes who I've seen eat the worms have a bit of swelling near the base of their heads. I know that one snake species that's related to garter stores toxins from toads it eats, so perhaps garters can store toxic materials in specialized glands?

[infernalis]

how can you be sure that they were pan fish worms????:confused:

Something I read somewhere:D

http://www.reformedsniper.net/1/1worm.jpg

[Lori P]

ROFL Yup, must be panfish worms then...

[KITKAT]

It just seems to me that if these worms were as bad as what I have been reading as of late, Then I should have seen a dead snake in there somewhere.

The worms in the photo you showed below, are NOT red wigglers. I know them really well.

Red wigglers are STRIPED... meaning that each segment has a dark red stripe that runs along the top of the ridge, and the valley that is created between the ribs is yellow.

If you do not see the stripes, it is not a red wiggler.

Like this:

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/red_wiggler_2.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/red_wiggler_1.jpg

[infernalis]

Thats more specific than "Panfish" worms.

I have caught plenty of panfish on Canadian crawlers:) too, so they must be panfish worms also.

Now that I have something new to think about / worry about, I just made sure that there are none of those nasties in my worm bucket.

Found some teeny baby crawlers, the Radix babies really liked them.

[Zephyr]

Ya know, Kat's right! My neighbors are vegans type things and they do vermicomposting; when picked up, red wigglers squirt out this nasty yellow stuff. These "panfish worms" don't.

[Stefan-A]

Red wigglers are STRIPED... meaning that each segment has a dark red stripe that runs along the top of the ridge, and the valley that is created between the ribs is yellow.

If you do not see the stripes, it is not a red wiggler.
Unfortunately that's not always the case. The "yellow valleys" do indeed give away Eisenia, but if a worm doesn't have the striped appearance, it doesn't mean that it isn't an Eisenia. You still need to go by how large it is and where it is found.

[LyrisFlame]

The worms in the photo you showed below, are NOT red wigglers. I know them really well.

Red wigglers are STRIPED... meaning that each segment has a dark red stripe that runs along the top of the ridge, and the valley that is created between the ribs is yellow.

If you do not see the stripes, it is not a red wiggler.

Like this:

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/red_wiggler_2.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/red_wiggler_1.jpg


Ya know, Kat's right! My neighbors are vegans type things and they do vermicomposting; when picked up, red wigglers squirt out this nasty yellow stuff. These "panfish worms" don't.

Yeah, these are the worms in the plastic tub I bought at Wal-Mart that is labelled "panfish/trout worms". They don't always do the yellow discharge thing, though.

It might be helpful to add this to the articles/feeding section so people know what exactly a red wiggler is, with pictures of the good worms and the bad worms. That would probably be really helpful for people with new snakes.

Anyhoo, I tried cutting up some trout this morning. I just sliced portions of the whole fish (skin, flesh, bones) into worm sized pieces and put them in a dish and left it there. Houdini is a little upset because I took away his super secure log aka "the magic disappearing hidey hole", but he also must be hungry so we'll see what he does. I really hope he likes fish. That would make life so much easier.

dekaybrown - I wish I could hand feed this snake like that! That would be awesome! Maybe some day, when he grows up...

[LyrisFlame]

WOW! The snake is just CHOWING DOWN all of that fish!! Sweet!!!

[adamanteus]

Excellent result, Freya!:D

[anji1971]

Glad to hear he likes the fish! He must be starving after playing such a long game of hide-and-seek.........;)

[Snake lover 3-25]

i just got some "trout" worms for fishing bait ..... and they have stripes too???? how many names can one worm have!!!!!!!!