T. sirtalis Trade Laws

[el lobo]

What are the laws regarding the sale and trade of T. sirtalis?

[Zephyr]

In Michigan, you can sell/trade them if they are captive bred.
Wild caught snakes cannot be sold or traded but of course can be given away.

[el lobo]

So....if they are born in captivity...?

[el lobo]

And what about other Thamnophis?

[Zephyr]

I don't know if there are any limits on other species of Thamnophis in Michigan. I know tetrataenias are protected and I dunno about gigas.

[el lobo]

Does that mean it is illegal to be selling this one?

Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia Anzeigen bei Deine-Tierwelt.de (http://www.deine-tierwelt.de/kleinanzeigen/thamnophis-sirtalis-tetrataenia-a10238634/)

[Stefan-A]

Does that mean it is illegal to be selling this one?

Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia Anzeigen bei Deine-Tierwelt.de (http://www.deine-tierwelt.de/kleinanzeigen/thamnophis-sirtalis-tetrataenia-a10238634/)
In the US, yes.

[el lobo]

hmmm...I wonder how they got one, then...

[adamanteus]

No, it's not illegal to keep or trade tetrataenia in Europe, just in the US....
I have 3 myself.:p

[el lobo]

probably not legally.

[el lobo]

oh, ok. got it. You are very fortunate...they are BEAUTIFUL!!

[Stefan-A]

And I've got one, too.

[sschind]

I have 3 myself.:p


And I've got one, too.

Knock it off you guys :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Stefan-A]

Knock it off you guys :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Hey, we're not the ones with wild garters in our back yard. :rolleyes:

[el lobo]

Wait, so if we Americans can't have them, how come YOU guys CAN???

[Stefan-A]

Because we couldn't catch wild ones even if we wanted to.

[ssssnakeluvr]

probably not legally.
yes, there was a legally acquired group sent to europe in the 70's. all offspring since are legal also. just can't have them here, efven if you have proof they are from europe.

[Stefan-A]

yes, there was a legally acquired group sent to europe in the 70's. all offspring since are legal also. just can't have them here, efven if you have proof they are from europe.
If I remember correctly, somebody managed to get fresh ones not too long ago. The ones we had were seriously inbred.

[el lobo]

Yeah, I was just going to say, if they all came from the original group, then you guys must have some crappy snakes haha. That sucks that we can't have them >:(

[el lobo]

I'm moving to Europe tomorrow. I've just decided. But I'll be bringing two of every garter with me. except the San Francisco.

[el lobo]

What was the size of the first group, and the newer one?

[Stefan-A]

What was the size of the first group, and the newer one?
If I remember correctly, there were only three or four in the first group. No idea how many in the second group, if there even was a second one.

[el lobo]

wow. three or four. great. haha

[Stefan-A]

According to legend, the European tetrataenias were at one point so inbred, that they were almost exclusively used as feeders.

edit: I did a bit of googling and according to what I've read in the last 20 minutes, those three or four supposedly came from a single couple in the US, and the offspring of captive American tetras were used as feeders.

edit2: apparently the same version is found in an article right here on thamnophis.com :D

[el lobo]

That just about sums up most Americans. They WOULD do that. So if I have 2 wild caught T. sirtalis, and my male breeds with my female, would the offspring be considered captive bred?

[Snake lover 3-25]

i think so.... but what if the mother was bread in the wild???? (like mine)

[el lobo]

I don't think that is a possibility...I had her since last spring, and I picked up a male from a friend in February (his mom insisted that he get rid of it, and you can't really release a snake in Feb. haha) so I think they bred to each other.

[Snake lover 3-25]

sorry.. i was asking in general.... i can see how you got confused...:D:D:D

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow that's cool so she may have babies???:D:D

[el lobo]

Oh, I get what you were saying now! haha sorry :P Yeah, it looks like she is gravid!

[Snake lover 3-25]

sweet!!!! i love baby pics!!!! hopefully Sooty will give me some REAL babies to look at soon!!!!:D:D:D HURRY UP SOOTY!!!!!!:D:D:p

[el lobo]

What kind of garter is Sooty? I'm just wondering, would anyone on here be interested in Easterns? How much do most people charge for easterns...as far as I know, they are regular, no het or anything.

[Snake lover 3-25]

sooty's an eastern..... she had about 3/4 threads just based on her....:D:D:D look her up in my gal. or under my threads started list... i'm giving away hers.... to good hopefully local families...:D:D:D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

What kind of garter is Sooty? I'm just wondering, would anyone on here be interested in Easterns? How much do most people charge for easterns...as far as I know, they are regular, no het or anything.


regular is the best kind my dear :)

[Snake lover 3-25]

anyone know what they would be considered if they were captive born but not bred???
how about captive born with one wild parent???:D:D

[drache]

regular is the best kind my dear :)
((((hug)))) nicely said

[el lobo]

:oI definitely agree. But it seems that different morphs are where the money is at. I don't currently have a single weird colour morph animal in my menagerie, but I would be willing to breed them if I can make money. Does this make me a bad person??

[adamanteus]

It doesn't make you bad, but a word to the wise.....
You'll never make money out of Garters, they're too cheap and too widely available. Example... Shanley is giving hers away.:rolleyes:

[sschind]

Hey, we're not the ones with wild garters in our back yard. :rolleyes:

Point taken

[Stefan-A]

anyone know what they would be considered if they were captive born but not bred???
Captive born.

[el lobo]

yeah....I guess I will stick with Dendros then.