My New Wandering

[GartersRock]

I just picked this girl up last weekend at the San Antonio reptile expo. She was part of the James Bear collection (he was bit and killed by a canebrake so friends where selling his collection and giving the money to his kids, mostly venomous snakes). I saw her on the table surrounded by venomous and had to double take and stop for 5 seconds because she doesn't have a stripe and hardly any pattern. Well, I bought her. lol!

These pictures are very accurate to her color and pattern on MY computer. She hardly has any top stripe or pattern and is a steel bluish color with blue skin. When you part the scales the skin is sky blue. So am I just blind and this is completely normal or is this even the least bit "unusual"?

I know that wanderings vary greatly in pattern but I haven't seen one like this. Anyone else seen or have one similar?
I have lots of new garters I will be posting pics of but I thought I would do this girl first. :D

She is so cute and sweet. And she POUNDS fuzzies like there is no tomorrow!
Without further intro! Claire Bennet:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c130/VirtualDreamStudios/Snakes1093.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c130/VirtualDreamStudios/Snakes1090.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c130/VirtualDreamStudios/Snakes1090.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c130/VirtualDreamStudios/Snakes1085.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Very nice. :)

[adamanteus]

Nice looking vagrans, Amanda.... but I can't see the blue colour on my PC.

[gregmonsta]

Lovely :) definately a more reduced pattern.

[GartersRock]

Well, her skin is blue. So when it stretches the steel greyish color gives off a blue cast.
She has 0 top stripe from the neck, down.

[el lobo]

Beautiful! Very nice pictures! Looks brown on mine...

[lestat]

She is very nice. Hope i find some next year now.

[jitami]

She's gorgeous! I love her :cool: Really, she's the first snake that I have really ooooohed and aaaahed over. I've been drawn to the blue varieties up to this point, but I really, really, really, like her color and pattern(or lack there of). Very pretty!

btw, the blue cast doesn't show here either, but the grey is good enough for me! lol

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

the blue is the skin inbetween the scales so we shouldnt be able to see it

She's gorgeous! I love her :cool: Really, she's the first snake that I have really ooooohed and aaaahed over. I've been drawn to the blue varieties up to this point, but I really, really, really, like her color and pattern(or lack there of). Very pretty!

btw, the blue cast doesn't show here either, but the grey is good enough for me! lol

[anji1971]

Oh, I just love that one!!
Even without being able to see the blue, that is one beautiful snake!:)

[GartersRock]

Thanks guys! ;) She's a funky little snake. And yeah, the blue is in the skin, the top color is a steel grey. Sorry for the confusion!
I hope to breed her to my male possible het for hypermelanistic next season. He has a bold checkered pattern and yellow top stripe. Wonder what the babies will look like. *shrugs*

[ssssnakeluvr]

where did you get the poss het hypermelanistic??? I have a group of them I found this year, 2 males that are hypermelanistic and several males and 2 females that are poss hets, have black bellies. my friend Brian says they should carry the gene...are from the same area as the hypers.

[GartersRock]

From you. :D

[beaniesmommy]

Beautiful! She is really pretty. I too love her color.

:) Andrea

[jitami]

Thanks guys! ;) She's a funky little snake. And yeah, the blue is in the skin, the top color is a steel grey. Sorry for the confusion!
I hope to breed her to my male possible het for hypermelanistic next season. He has a bold checkered pattern and yellow top stripe. Wonder what the babies will look like. *shrugs*

Amanda, what part of the country are you in? I just might need a baby or two if any turn out looking like their momma!;)

OMG, did I just say that? Don't tell my husband! :D

[GartersRock]

Lol! I won't tell. ;)

I am in TX, but I ship too. Just let me know! I'll write down your name.

[ssssnakeluvr]

From you. :D

D'OH!!!!!!!!!!! guess I should look a little closer at who posts....:rolleyes:

[GartersRock]

Lol!! :cool:

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Blue skin between the scales is not uncommon for some western species of garters. I have found T. ordinoides (Northwestern), T. elegans elegans (Mountain [Western Terrestrial]) and T. atratus hydrophilus (Oregon [Pacific Coast Aquatic]) all occasionally have this trait. It should be known that ordinoides, elegans, and atratus all share a close cladistic relationship (genetically). It would not surprise me that vagrans (another elegans ssp.) would also carry this trait.

The only species where I have surmised this trait to be a benefit to the animal is in the Oregon Garter (hydrophilus), as it works really well in the waters of our serpentine-rocked rivers! Great camouflage in the water!

Steven
(NW California - land of intergrades and proposed natural hybrids! 4 species; 7 garters counting subspecies))

[GartersRock]

Yes, and I have seen some easterns with blue skin as well. Really cool!
It was mostly the greatly reduced pattern that caught my attention. The blue underneath was kind of an added bonus!
Have you seen many Wanderings with this much of a reduced pattern Steven? You seem to be in the field alot! :)

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

I am in the field a lot, but honestly, I have never come across T. e. vagrans in the field personally. I'm in NW CA, so one of my favorite photo references is Alan St. John's "Reptiles of the Northwest" (Lone Pine Publishing). They have a wonderful pic of a hyper-melanistic individual, however under the right light the spots are still visible. My experience with patternless garters comes from Northwesterns (T. ordinoides) only.

I field herp Humboldt, Trinity, Siskiyou, Del Norte, and Mendocino counties in NW CA regularly. I occasionally hit San Diego County and parts of SW OR as well. You can forget San Diego for garters, they are virtually wiped out down there. In my childhood I saw them drain one natural pond after another to make way for suburbia there.

My regular encounters are with T. s. infernalis & fitchi (CA Red-sided & Valley Garters), T. ordinoides (the Northwestern Garter with all its morphs!), T. e. elegans & terrestris (Mountain & Coast Garters), and T. a. hydrophilus (Oregon Garter). There are natural and continuously changing intergrade zones between the 2 ssp. within the sirtalis clade and b/n the 2 ssp. within the elegans clade. There are also suspected hybrid zones b/n Mountain & Oregon Garters and b/n Coast and both ssp. of sirtalis (local and locally monitored breeding ops and/or further mitochondrial DNA testing required). In the case of Mountains and Oregons, reintegration is suggested.

There is so much work to be done in garter research! Unfortunately, captive garter genetics will be heading towards that same fate shared by many other captive-bred species (boas, corns, kings, etc...) A lot of untracked genes (usually because of amateur breeders who don't know the specifics of a snake's genetic history!) are messing up original patterns. Total loss of unique and ORIGINAL morphs will yield less than spectacular intergrades or mutts in the future. Mutts are cool, but not for the wild populations! And they get loose all the time. If you throw in amelanism or off the wall color morphs, they are dead meat in the wild! Plus if they get to breed, then you've got hets in the wild that may eventually cause a small decline in population ratios. Sorry to go off on a tangent... Must have been some other thread!

Anyways, that's my babble.

Steven

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol this sounds really really stupid.... but.... can you explain what you just said in.... um.... well.... shorter easier terms????

[GartersRock]

Very imformative post Steven! Thank you very much!

Shanley, lol!! =D It'll come!

[Snake lover 3-25]

:(:(:(:(:(:(

[GartersRock]

What? I'm trying to encourage you! =D
Oh, count me in on another poor soul who has found herself waiting nervously for Sooty's babies. lol!

[Snake lover 3-25]

OMG!!!! go to sooties babies thread!!!:eek: