Maritimes Garters(pallidulus)*pics

[Valley Pets]

Hey there,
Just a couple pics of a couple of my pallidulus, these are "Maritime Garters", a subspeices of the Eastern garter... They come in a large range of colors. The red phase female had just given birth to 20+ young so is a little thin and was in shed at the time of the photo... The first pic is of another female that gave me 19 young this year. They are somewhat harder to start on mice as their prey is almost 100% frogs and fish in the wild. Most of my females give birth in late august. Just thought everyone would like to take a look at these guys! I'll put up more pics in the near future just show just have many color phases they come in! Ryan-Valley Pets
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/valleypets/garter.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/valleypets/redgater.jpg

[Thamnophis]

I love this subspecies!!

[Cazador]

Ryan,
Those T.s. pallidula are really cool looking. I saw some pictures where the pallidula seemed to have more of a greenish body with reddish spots.

Are you breeding them in May, or do they seem to delay fertilization in order to deliver in late August?
Rick

[GarterGuy]

I'll be!...... some one does work with T.s.pallidulus! I tried for quite sometime to find some of these guys to start a breeding colony...even looked into heading to Maine to collect some, but got a lot of resistance from the Maine wildlife people. I specifically like, like Rick had stated, the greenish ones....especially a colour phase that I've seen a few pics of that are a blue green with dark red spots and a yellow chin. I don't know what the regs. are for shipping snakes out of Canada, but I would be VERY interested if you have any of the mentioned colour phase or honestly any greenish T.s.pallidulus. You can just IM me if you like.

----Roy

[Valley Pets]

Thanks folks! They are a great snake to work with... I'm glad you all like them!
Rick..I try to breed these snakes as they would in the wild..I like to cool about 1-2 females with about 5 or so males....This is more natural to them as they breed as soon as they emerge in the spring. I usually only cool them for about 2-3 months(Oct-Jan), they breed when they are put back on heat. But still don't deliver the young until quite late in the summer... These guys are off wild cought snakes so I guess that is still their way of thinking...lol
Here is Nova Scotia we also have a melanistic population on a small island just of the coast! They are completly black, even belly scales! I would love to beable to get my hands on a couple of them but the island is privitely owned and protected.
I'll put up more pics soon....(I should have MANY for sale this coming summer guys!) Oh and Roy.. I have a very nice young female that almost looks lime green in color! Very bright! I'll be sure to get pics!
Thanks,
Ryan-Valley Pets

[Snaky]

Nice one's! Some species that are very different from what I have.

[suzoo]

Hey there,
Just a couple pics of a couple of my pallidulus, these are "Maritime Garters", a subspeices of the Eastern garter... They come in a large range of colors. The red phase female had just given birth to 20+ young so is a little thin and was in shed at the time of the photo... The first pic is of another female that gave me 19 young this year. They are somewhat harder to start on mice as their prey is almost 100% frogs and fish in the wild. Most of my females give birth in late august. Just thought everyone would like to take a look at these guys! I'll put up more pics in the near future just show just have many color phases they come in! Ryan-Valley Pets
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/valleypets/garter.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/valleypets/redgater.jpg
Hi Valley Pets, Thank you!! The pic.s are beautiful!! And I personally had never seen this sub-species. They're gorgeous!!
Suzoo

[ssssnakeluvr]

Beautiful snakes!!! I had a trio a couple years back, but they passed away on me...:( I would love to get some more!

[GarterGuy]

Thanks folks! They are a great snake to work with... I'm glad you all like them!
I'll put up more pics soon....(I should have MANY for sale this coming summer guys!) Oh and Roy.. I have a very nice young female that almost looks lime green in color! Very bright! I'll be sure to get pics!
Thanks,
Ryan-Valley Pets

Very cool.....wouldn't want to do anything now while it's winter and cold out, but come spring, I'll definitely be interested!!! I should have my breeding setup done by then too!:) Question for you, ok...actually a couple....How big do the pallidulus get as adults? Do they hit the larger sizes like the T.s.sirtalis? Also, how big are the babies when they are born? I had talked to another breeder, here in the states, who was working with them, but got out of it...due to the fact that the babies were only about 2" when born. Also I'm really surprised to hear that they're difficult to get to mice.....I've heard that they're diet is just as variable as T.s.sirtalis, even to the point where one paper stated that they were major predators on rodents on some of the islands they live on. Anyways, I almost had forgotten, but welcome to the site. It'll be really cool to hear about your work with this subspecies.
--Roy

[Valley Pets]

Hey Roy!
Great to see that everyone has takin such a liking to these snakes!
As for your q's... They can reach the size as the T.s.sirtalis, I've seen some in the wild that were quite large indeed! But for the most part they stay somewhat smaller. Most of my breeding females are about 18-24 inches when they start to breed. Here's some info that was collected right here in Nova Scotia...

Newborn babies (139 snakes were measured) - 13.4 to 19 cm
Adult males (51 snakes measured) - 39.6 to 60.2 cm
Adult females (99 snakes measured) - 39.8 to 91.7 cm

That should answer your question just fine! lol All my collection is off WC animals from right here in N.S.
You are right in saying that the young are small! The newborns measured in that study could not have been all newborns...The ones I have bred have been only about 3 inches give or take at birth, and thin, so you have to feed very small fish pieces and small worms to begin with. The largest thing I have fed or would feed to a newborn is red-backed salamanders. One of those is a large meal for a newborn so that goes to show how small they are...
I have been able to get the younger snakes to take pinkies but only when scented with fish, and it takes a while to get them to take just the pink. In the summer I am always feeding frogs, which they are crazy over! Here in Nova Scotia these guys are almost always found near water, if I had to take a guess from what I've read and observed here in N.S I would say that easily 70-85% of their diet is fish,frogs and worms. On the islands you are right and they say that rodents are a very important food source.
They don't reguire any different care from that of T.s.sirtalis. Mine are all kept in a racking system like my corns/kings/milks..ect... They do great.. I only give them a larger water dish.. They are fed about 3-4 times a week. The young I try to feed more often, but this takes time as I usually have about 50 of the little things every summer!
Hope this helps Roy.. And everyone else..
Ryan-Valley Pets

[Valley Pets]

Here's a few pics of my younger pallidulus.. The first pic really shows the difference in some of the snakes...All these guys were CB by myself..(Sorry if some of the pics are a bit blurry)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/valleypets/redandgreen.jpg

This is a young snake that I bred...
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/valleypets/smallgarter.jpg

This is a pic of a "green" female..

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/valleypets/greengarter.jpg

Another shot...
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p80/valleypets/redandgreen2.jpg

[suzoo]

NICE pics, beautiful snakes!!

[GarterGuy]

Wow....total beauties there Ryan. Yeh, that green on is pretty much exactly the colour pattern that I was interested in. So how long is it 'til spring now! :D

[Valley Pets]

Hey there!
lol Spring will be here before we know it! I forgot to mention to all you folks in the US that I am planning on making atleast one trip in to maine this coming spring/summer! I like to do this to save money on the shipping of snakes I get from the US, as I'm only about a 5-6 hour drive from the boarder. So if anyone is interested I could ship from the airport in maine and save you quite a bit of money and save you the trouble of shipping across the boarder.
Just a thought!
Ryan-Valley Pets

[Snaky]

Very nice one's:cool:

[ssssnakeluvr]

I would be interested in some breeders this summer!!!!

[GarterGuy]

I guess I don't even have to say "Let me know when you're in the states!", but hey....there it is. I'm VERY interested!!!!!!

[northeastexotics]

some kids brought me a bunch of garters yesterday and one was really exceptional so I asked what they wnated for it, they said 5 bucks so I gave it to them, anyways I am gonna send this snake to Scott Felzer.

this is a true Maritimes Garter Snake - Thamnophis sirtalis pallidula
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u192/northeastexotics/my%20snakes/redishgartersnakeoutside.jpg


the melanistic form is found on a few of the islands around eastern shores of nova scotia, not just goerges, including McNabbs.

[Snaky]

She's indeed very nicely colored!

[Josh]

that second one is quite the looker lol

[Josh]

so is the one above snaky jeeze

[enigma200316]

since you seem to know a lot about the meritime, could you look at my pics and tell me what you think, I think it is a meritime,but they say there
not into NW, PA so let me know if you can....thanks
P.S. pics are in members gallery or in my post/ identify!

[northeastexotics]

ok I will try, I will go do that now.

[northeastexotics]

maritimes garters are only found in the northern half of maine, the species you found in your yard is the common garter -Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis

[enigma200316]

you did look at the pics right? because there is a lot of like features.....
can you explain the diff. to me? I'm new to garters and don't know the
correct identifing features of them.......thanks for any help.....

[stonyloam]

These garters were all found in upstate NY, near Rochester, and they do seem to look like Maritimes. The NYDEC lists them as present in New York. So I guess they might be around here and maybe in northern PA.
P.S. That “stonylaom” sure was a handsome creature!

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/new_snake2.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/100b4402.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/100b1841.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/100_0609.jpg

[chris87]

lovely looking snakes

[KITKAT]

This seems to indicate that Maritimes are found in New York State:

SUNY-ESF E-Center: Snakes of New York (http://www.esf.edu/pubprog/brochure/snakes/snakes.htm)

And this one

http://www.fs.fed.us/ne/newtown_square/publications/technical_reports/pdfs/scanned/OCR/ne_gtr108d.pdf

says...


RANGE: Eastern Quebec extending to Alberta in discontinuous
populations, s. to n. New Hampshire, New York
and n. Michigan. Intergrades with T. s, sirtalis to w. and
s. parts of range.

[drache]

gosh
"aggressive species with a nasty disposition"
that doesn't sound like Terry's snakes
of course Terry's been so nice to them, perhaps he charmed them past their nasty nature

[KITKAT]

Nah... that just describes herpetology buffs that live too close to the big city! HA HA HA

[drache]

Nah... that just describes herpetology buffs that live too close to the big city! HA HA HA

yah - you've got a point there
although most of the ones I've personally met are the nerdy type with zero social skills
sometimes I wonder about their verbal skills as well