Creamsicle Corn Snake

[beaniesmommy]

Ok so I just went to my local pet store that I have been going to for years. I trust them. They have a creamsicle corn snake that has been there for three months. It eats well and seems very healthy. It is living in a very small cage and I held it and I am in love. I think I have snakitis. Any ideas? I want him to join our family. I am at the store now.... I am going to get some groceries next door and wait to see it I can get some input. Thank you! Andrea

[adamanteus]

Pretty, but oh so BORING! Buy a nice Garter Snake.:);)

[andyoconnor83]

what store is it? how much do they want. I personally would wait until the reptile breeder expo at the puyallup fairgrounds in october, could save you a lot.

[jeanette]

corn snakes are very easy snakes to look after, they are low maintenance and usually very easy to handle, they have an easier diet than garters just one rodent per week.

[beaniesmommy]

Andy, it is more the environment that it is in now that bothers me. I am a softy for animals that don't have a nice home. I understand exactly what you are saying... the snake is 99.00. But I am not worried about the money... I want to take care of it... I am a nurse... I can't help it... :) I could handle lots of snakes... I will go to the reptile expo and probably end up with a partner for one of them....

[jeanette]

Andy, it is more the environment that it is in now that bothers me. I am a softy for animals that don't have a nice home. I understand exactly what you are saying... the snake is 99.00. But I am not worried about the money... I want to take care of it... I am a nurse... I can't help it... :) I could handle lots of snakes... I will go to the reptile expo and probably end up with a partner for one of them....
im the same way and am i glutton for taking on unfortuates.

[andyoconnor83]

ok, well in that case, rescue away! If they have had it for 3 months in poor conditions it most likely has no serious illness or it wouldn't have made it this long... as mentioned they are probably the easiest snake to care for that I can think of. I have never had a corn refuse a meal, and i have only been bitten by babies and WC animals. a mouse a week, and try to sex it before October then get something of a different morph and opposite sex to see if you can do anything interesting...

[Snake lover 3-25]

i'd say go for it

one question..... how are you at the store and on the internet????:D:D:confused:

[beaniesmommy]

A great cell phone... It is a Treo so I can be on the internet all the time... Plus my carrier has unlimited internet so it works well for me because I am a computer junkie or nerd however you look at it.... :p

[Lori P]

I just got home and saw this... what, no pics yet of the new baby??!! I KNOW you came home with him.... :-)

[drache]

yeah - what's with that
doesn't the treo take photos?

[Snake lover 3-25]

YEAH PICSPICSPICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D

btw that's what i guessed my parents have those!!!!:D:D:p

[beaniesmommy]

OK i am going back to get it in a minute... I had to go to Petco... Uck to get a 20 gallon long tank because they didn't have it where the snake is and they where going to put it in a little box and it is good size... It would have escaped in my mini van... Oh No!!! I will go get it now... Pics will be here in a hour or so.

I have to say I am so glad I joined this group. Thank you for your support and making a boring stay at home mom feel cool and a part of something...

Andrea

[Snake lover 3-25]

YOU are NOT a boring stay at home mom!!!!!!!! have some confidence in yourself!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:p:p

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hey, my mom is a stay at home mom and shes definatly NOT boring!!!

I have a treo also, I am always on this site during the day at work on my lunchbreak.. its a great phone isnt it!

i cant wait to see pics of your creamsicle! I saw 1 rodent per week suggested, which is fine by all means, but if you really want your corn to grow and flourish, offer him/her two instead :D

I personally came home to 6 new cornsnake eggs today... so exciting!!

[jeanette]

im a boring stay at home mum lol

[Snake lover 3-25]

there is NO such thing as a boring stay at home mom!!!!!!!!!!!!!! end of conversation!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:p:p:p

[jeanette]

:D :D :D :D ok im a stay at home mum who isnt boring she has just too much of barney the purple ******* dinosaur

[Loren]

Corns generally make excellent pets, and have very basic care needs.
I have 3 of them. 2 amelanistic fm's and an anery male.
They will only bite if I let them confuse me for food because they have such great appetites(best feeders I have). So I just make sure they get a good look at my hand before I pick them up. Then they are great.

[beaniesmommy]

Ok I didn't mean to offend any other SAHM's... I am tattooed and I party once a month at a poker party and I love rock music... I am not too boring either. Sometimes after making lunches and watching Disney movies for weeks on end you start to feel like you loose yourself a bit... That is what I meant...

But here are some pictures of the "Candy Cane" Cornsnake... That is what the pet store called it I will do some more research and see what I can find. It is so happy in it's new home. It sat in the water and took a bath right away. It has eaten two furries (I think that is what they are called) and two pinkies that my garter wanted nothing to deal with.

Happy snake owner here :D

P.s. Does a snake bit hurt really bad? I am just worried about my daughter. She is really gentle and I am ALWAYS helping her hold the snakes. Just wondering

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn111/beaniesmommy/Snake004.jpg
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn111/beaniesmommy/Snake005.jpg
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn111/beaniesmommy/Snake006.jpg

[Loren]

Thats very pretty. It looks alot like one of my amelanistics. Mine are two different varieties- I dont know the actual morph name, just that they have red eyes, and basically just the same colors as yours- so I just call them amelansitic.
As for snake bites- corns and snakes like that can draw a small amount of blood, but I have never found it too much to worry about. It doesnt really hurt because they have sharp teeth, so its a fairly clean cut. I have only been bit by any snake a few times, and the only one that was actually painful was my racer, because he just kept chewing and chewing and chewing. I was doing a show at the time too.

Main thing is just to make sure and wash the wound good, and make sure your reaction is very calm and not worried, so your child doesnt get more freaked out than she already will be.
Bites from a cornsnake are rare and usually only happen when they mistake you for food, which only happens on the initial pick up. I have never had one try to bite once they are out of the cage, as long as you are gentle.
Perhaps you should get it out for her, then let her hold it. Any younger child should be supervised with any snake anyways- if for nothing else, to make sure they dont lose it. Then you can make sure the snake seems calm.
Only other thing to watch is when they are ready to shed- their eyes cloud over, and they can get "cranky" since they cant see well.
:)

[Loren]

Well, I went out and snapped a quick pic of my cornsakes since we were on the subject. They dont all live together- this was just for the pic. The anery is the male- almost 4 feet long, the other 2 are females, maybe a little under 3 feet.
I tried to get one of those cute group shots where they all are looking at the camera- not a chance, that could have taken all day!


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/corns.jpg

[beaniesmommy]

Loren,

They are beautiful! Very similar, mine has a bit more white like one of yours. They feel so different than my garter. I am hoping it doesn't get a huge amount bigger. That is why I really like the garters.

Oh and thank you for the advice about my daughter holding the snakes, that exactly how I have been doing it. She is just as much in love with them as I am. I actually thought she would have a hard time with the pinkies (I had a harder time) she just said good snake you ate all of your dinner!

:D

[Loren]

Thats cute. How old is she?

I always make sure children wash up after touching anything reptile related. Although the salmonella risk is quite small, it pays to be safe.
Shouldnt be any problem getting the corns to eat their dinner. I swear those females of mine would eat every day if I let them. I fed them every 3-5 days for a while, and they still acted like they were starving. Grew fast too.

[Stefan-A]

Pretty, but oh so BORING! Buy a nice Garter Snake.:);)
Hard to tell if they really are pretty, they're always hiding. :rolleyes: Yes, buy a garter snake.


Buy a garter snake. Buy two.

[Zephyr]

Hard to tell if they really are pretty, they're always hiding. :rolleyes: Yes, buy a garter snake.


Buy a garter snake. Buy two.My butter corn's always out... Maybe it's because she sees the garters below them and wishes to be like them. :P

[Stefan-A]

Hold on, the creamsicle is a hybrid between a corn and an Emory's ratsnake, isn't it?

[Zephyr]

Hold on, the creamsicle is a hybrid between a corn and an Emory's ratsnake, isn't it?I thought it was an intergrade between the corn snake and the great plain's rat snake.

[Stefan-A]

It was, when they still belonged to the same species. Now they're two distinct species of the same genus.

[Zephyr]

I have a recently published book still saying they're the same species, copyright 2007... When was the change and why wasn't I informed? :P

[Stefan-A]

I think it was changed some time between 2004 and 2006. They chopped up Elaphe, since all the rat snakes of the world didn't belong to the same genus. ;) I've heard a rumor that there are plans to get rid of Pantherophis as well and move most of the North American rat snakes to Pituophis.

http://www.cnah.org/pdf_files/687.pdf


we suggest that all species in the clade formed by the MRCA
of Pantherophis guttatus to Pituophis melanoleucus (node
C2, Fig. 4) be designated as Pituophis.

edit: it was in 2005.

edit 2: better not repeat rumors. :D Deleted it.

edit 3: what the hell, I'll put it back.

[Zephyr]

I think it was changed some time between 2004 and 2006. They chopped up Elaphe, since all the rat snakes of the world didn't belong to the same genus. ;) I've heard a rumor that there are plans to get rid of Pantherophis as well and move most of the North American rat snakes to Pituophis.

edit: it was in 2005.Well if you average 2004 and 2006... :P
Next thing you know they'll find some little gene and push them all back together again. XD

[Stefan-A]

Well if you average 2004 and 2006... :P
I think I may be wrong, maybe it was in 2002. Or did they split up Elaphe in 2002 and Pantherophis guttatus in 2005..?

Not sure when. But they did.

[Zephyr]

Wait, now I'm confused. It's still Elaphe for north american rat snakes, right?

[Stefan-A]

Nope. They're Pantherophis now. Most European and Asian Elaphe got reclassified as well.

Anyway, Elaphe guttata had two subspecies and got reclassified, so that it became Pantherophis guttatus with two subspecies (P. g. guttatus and P. g. emoryi). Then they split Pantherophis guttatus, so that it no longer has any subspecies and in the process they got two new species in addition to the corn snake, namely Emory's rat snake (=Great Plains rat snake) and Slowinski's corn snake.

[beaniesmommy]

I am a total beginner... But, I read your article on mixing species and I respect and mostly agree with it. I wouldn't have chosen to get a "wierd ***" snake if it wasn't in this cage the size of my three year olds shoe boxes for three (probably more) months. So, I would expect that you wouldn't talk too much about my really kind "mixed breed" which has an even weirder name that the petstore called a "candy cane" (I mis-named it as creamsicle) cornstake... See you you can follow where that type of snake comes from... :)

I will get some more garter snakes and maybe some other miscellaneous neglected creatures, because really it all comes down to what is right there in front of your eyes seeking a warm place to live.

:o

[andyoconnor83]

The Pantherophis into Pituophis move has all but been dismissed. No paper to support that claim as I can't find it, but the guys that wrote that paper have been slandered repeatedly for their lack of evidence for that proposal.

in the case of the corn snake she purchased, it may or may not be a pure P. guttatus, and unless the pet store were to say which breeder they got it from, we'll never know. As mentioned, if it were a creamsicle, it's an amelenistic hyrbidized with P. emoryi, but if it's a candycane, which it looks like it to me, then it's just a high white amel, basically it's the amelenistic version of a miami phase corn...

[Loren]

I think your corn is all corn as far as I understand. I think ghost corns have some outside(ratsnake) influence possibly.
As for the name changing- I think it comes down to some people just really wanting their name published on a study- so they keep finding unimportant reasons to reclassify things.

[Zephyr]

Actually, now that I've seen the pics, I think it's either a creamsicle corn or a very orange amel, like my boy.

[drache]

i'm a bit worried that soon we'll be having garter hybrids with weird food names too
and notice how it's usually fruit and candy names - sweet stuff?
never any real food - like the cheese taco corn, or the turkey club king

[infernalis]

Garters have already began acquiring "new" funky names.

And I guarantee that out there somewhere is someone trying to cross Florida's with Puget's, or Puget's with Flames, etc...

Some more elite breeders call them "mutts" and others will just make up names.

"morphs" are genetic anomalies that left to nature are extremely rare.

But through the friendly interference of man, it has become a lot less rare. Someone will pair together 2 albinos that would have never met in nature and breed them, babies are born and 4 show albinism, of which say 3 are females and one is male, now the breeder will "back breed" and use little junior to impregnate all the females, the resulting litters wind up with very high ratios of albinos.

Then someone else will cross the albino with something different to try and recess the melanin gene, creating something new.

The word "Cherry" is already being used to describe a garter. Olives, butterscotch and lemon will probably follow..

Regards,
Wayne

[Snake lover 3-25]

hmmmmm interesting!!!:D:D

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

lol scott's cherry erythristic?


The word "Cherry" is already being used to describe a garter. Olives, butterscotch and lemon will probably follow..

Regards,
Wayne

[infernalis]

Yup THAT one:)

[drache]

oh my, Scott, cherry???
okay, okay - I see the connection
I was thinking lipstick and nail polish, but I believe the lingerie industry uses that colour also, so garters . . .
I'm mollified - sort of

[Charlet_2007]

Well, I went out and snapped a quick pic of my cornsakes since we were on the subject. They dont all live together- this was just for the pic. The anery is the male- almost 4 feet long, the other 2 are females, maybe a little under 3 feet.
I tried to get one of those cute group shots where they all are looking at the camera- not a chance, that could have taken all day!


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/corns.jpg

whats the light colored red orange and white one called?

[lestat]

Great looking corn snakes. i like corn snakes and it was a choice between Garters and corns but my first snakes were garters and they are very active and so interesting to keep.

[adamanteus]

Great looking corn snakes. i like corn snakes and it was a choice between Garters and corns but my first snakes were garters and they are very active and so interesting to keep.

There speaks a wise man!:D

[infernalis]

My first ever PURCHASED snake is our little corn "CY" (look close, his name is on top of his head).

http://www.reformedsniper.net/sn/johnson.jpg

CY is very handsome, I love his colour, but HE DOES NOTHING until I go to sleep, then he comes out and plays in the dark, leaving all kinds of evidence that he was very active AT NIGHT.

Now Garters on the other hand, Magma, Melanie and the Radix pair are sitting about 8 inches to my left right now, as soon as I turn on the light, they all start moving about, every once in a while, moving to my end of the tank and checking me out.

The other tanks come to life as well, The Garters and Dekays all put on a show during the day.

My only non garter that does any of this would be Limon, Asian green snakes are also diurnal and he eats worms, so maybe there is a garter soul trapped in there??

The Milks and the Python prefer nocturnal activity, but don't seem to mind too much if I reach in and show them to people, they just retreat quickly back to the hide as soon as you put them back.

The garters have even wrapped around my fingers as if to protest being placed back in the cage, and Xena is a real pain to try and put back in, she will grab my fingers and constrict them until I raise my hand back out of the tank.

So there is pretty, and there is pretty smart, I was going to give some money to a milk breeder, but when it was all said and done, well we know where the money went.

Crimson Milks and Blood corns would have cost less to buy initialy, But the flame garter was a better choice and will cost less to keep in the long run.

And that hue, such a bright red......

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow that's so cool you got his name right off his head!!!! good that you make the choice to love garters the best!!!:D:D:p

[Zephyr]

I see my butter corn out all the time... I guess it's just how you raise them. :P

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Beaniesmommy's snake, as far as I can see, is not a candy cane (I do not see any hi-white / Miami influence), and the cream in the Creamsicle is questionable as well. I have been breeding Pantherophis for about 6 years now, and let me just say, the breeding populations out there include a great big mess! Specimens with unknown heterozygous recessive traits, co-dominant genetics, polygenic phases or blends, human-bred intergrades and hybrids, not to mention in-breeding have turned corns into the goldfish of the captive-bred snake industry... complete with health issues and muddled colors and patterns. Boas are on the same path, as are leopard geckos, kingsnakes, and yes...unfortunately we will probably soon have some Frankengarters on the market soon! It's a shame what some mad scientists deem necessary, and it's a shame what some of the uneducated masses think they should breed, just because it might look pretty and fetch a higher price!

I am currently downsizing (not culling) my corn population because (1) I am switching to garter research, and (2) there are too many mutant corns in the world; we do not need to breed so many more!

I have chatted with Kathy Love (Cornutopia.com) on the phone for hours, and most of the big breeders - i.e. morph name discoverers (Kathy Love, Don Soderberg, Rich Serpenco, etc) would agree that a lot of the professional breeders out there that are producing hundreds of clutches for the mass market each year include a lot of amateurs who do not know what they are doing..... [inbreeding, under-age breeding, misnamed morphs.... I am seeing smaller and more emaciated neonates each and every year!]

Anyways, you have a pretty snake. I'd just call it an amelanistic.

My current corn population includes:

1.0 Normal, het Amel ["Snakie"]
0.1 Reverse Okeetee, het Type A Anery ["Jory"]
1.0 Type A Hypo Motley, het Type A Anery ["Jupiter"]
1.0 Sunglow (orange Amel) Motley ["Lucifer"]
0.1 Pastel (Type A Hypo, Type A Anery) Motley ["Lily"]
0.1 Snow (Amel, Type A Anery) ["Luna"]
0.1 Type A Anery, het Type A Hypo, Amel, and Motley ["Annie"]

I have 2 clutches incubating. One will result in Normal Motleys, 100% het Hypo, Anery, and Amel. The other will result in Normals and Anerys that are 100% het Hypo, Amel, and Motley. Do you see what people mean by the term "mutts"? It's not a problem when you know your snakes' genetic history, but what about the unknowns?

Rambling again,

Steve

[Loren]

I dont know the full genetic history of my anery male or amel females, but I know exactly what they will have- baby corn snakes.:D:D:D

Just jokin' with you Steven- I do see your point, and I definitely agree that excessive inbreeding happens with too many morphs in order to make more money fast.

[Loren]

whats the light colored red orange and white one called?
Not sure. :)
I looked it up a while back, but cant remember what I decided. All 3 were given to me. I'll make sure I figure it out before they breed, which will not be this year.

[infernalis]

I see my butter corn out all the time... I guess it's just how you raise them. :P

Hmm, wonder what I did wrong. :confused:

Lets see, Handling - lots, feeding - mice, enclosure - luxury condo:D

[drache]

I see my butter corn out all the time... I guess it's just how you raise them. :P

I totally think it's a personality thing
some snakes are just more "outgoing" than others

[infernalis]

I was trying to be mildly sarcastic, yet un-insultive.

CY is a very cool snake, and he tolerates handling well, I just have to remove his hide and grab on.

http://www.reformedsniper.net/snakes/cy.jpg

[beaniesmommy]

I will say I really prefer my garter for entertainment. I will continue to get ONLY garters. But, I have to say the "hold-ability" of the boring corn snake, what ever flavor it is, is perfect for a 3 1/2 year old. Thanks for everyone's info. "Kist" is a really gentle snake and is a great starter snake, I have no regrets.


:)

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

All snakes are beautiful!

[Stefan-A]

All snakes are beautiful!
Yeah, in principle. :)

But most Lampropeltis species look like they're straight out of someone's fevered nightmare. ;)

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

It's those clean-cut borders!

[Stefan-A]

And the colours.

I like the prairie kingsnake and the eastern milksnake. ;)