Ingestion of Organic Particles and Health

[Zephyr]

I recently took a closer look at my butler's poo (Which contained his last wild meals), as well as some of my easterns who are out in the pen, and I noticed that a large amount of the actual fecal material is dirt. My question is since no one is out in the wild rinsing the garter's food for them, then why do they not get impacted? Obviously small particles won't cling together and affect them, but could there be benefits to dusting the snake's food with some potting soil? I read in a bird book once that providing sod pieces for birds lets them pick at the trace minerals in the dirt, and I realize there's a big difference between snakes and birds... But if the butler's last meal was only worms, and every meal before that would've been worms, his diet would severely lack in nutrition. So therefore, he'd have to get his nutrients somewhere else, and seeing as the only other thing ingested with the meal is dirt *or organic particles, whichever works. :P*, then this extra material must have some benefits. Any other thoughts on this?

[Lumpy]

Well, as to the bird world, the jury is still out about if "grit" really aids in digestion or not. There was a time when it was thought that parakeets needed grit provided to them or they would have problems with digestion. After much research, it was determined that grit wasn't necessary.

But I agree, snakes in the wild have to consume unintended matter all the time. I would image most pass it without too much problem.

Lump

[Zephyr]

Well, as to the bird world, the jury is still out about if "grit" really aids in digestion or not. There was a time when it was thought that parakeets needed grit provided to them or they would have problems with digestion. After much research, it was determined that grit wasn't necessary.

But I agree, snakes in the wild have to consume unintended matter all the time. I would image most pass it without too much problem.

Lump
I'm not really looking at it as an aid in digestion, but rather as a natural supplement.

[Lumpy]

As a suppliment, good question. I have no idear... :)

Lump

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

then why do they not get impacted?

well... if you think about it... ingestion of dirt really shouldnt cause impaction... it's dirt! its soft and squishy and becomes even moreso when it's wet (as it would be inside a snake) and don't forget... the worms the snake is eating are full of soil and nutrient rich dead organic material! So I doubt soil ingestion would cause impaction. As for a dietary supplement... should'nt the stuff inside the worms be enough dirt if they need it? Worms eat the good mineral rich stuff anyways. Impaction usually results from aciidentally eating something like wood chips or something more rigid and indigestible that ends up getting stuck. Ever happen to notice how if there's something such as soil or a peice of anything stuck to their meal they try wiping it clean before they swallow the rest?

Oh yea, and what about the more aquatic thamnophis that feed primarily on fish? Fish don't have any dirt on them as most of the time they are swallowed in the water. I personally do not think that putting soil on your snake's food is going to hurt, but i don't think it will have much in the way of benefits. Besides you -never- know if something not-good has found its way somehow into the soil and that you are actually doing more harm than good. Until someone proves it 100% beneficial, I personally will not start feeding my garters dirty things :p

It's a good question you raised though!

[Zephyr]

Further questions raised... Do Thamnophis use the digested gut matter from the prey?
Assuming they're eating rodents, worms, slugs, or fish, it would be a mix of vegetable and animal matter. If it's amphibians or leeches, then it's animal matter... Maybe I should test this too...
Find a chemical that's found in many plants, feed it to worms *or other thamnophis prey* then test their droppings for it. If it's not present, then obviously the snakes used it...

[Snake lover 3-25]

i think they do don't they???? bc gold fish eat plant mat and isn't that why they're so dangerous?????

[Zephyr]

i think they do don't they???? bc gold fish eat plant mat and isn't that why they're so dangerous?????Gold fish have a high amount of fat and thiaminase. The thiaminase is what makes them "dangerous," not their gut matter.

[Snake lover 3-25]

oooooooooo :D:o:o

[drache]

I would assume that the gut content of a prey animal is an important contributing factor in predator nutrition
lizard keepers know that insects must be properly gut-loaded with high quality grains, veggies and proteins before they're fed to a lizard

[ssssnakeluvr]

for some reason some garters, particularly ordinoides, are primarily worm eaters...they get the right nutrition in the wild, probably from what the worms eat. I don't think putting a little dirt in their food is a good idea.

[Stefan-A]

Well, who says they don't get impacted in the wild? :)

A little dirt is normal, but in a terrarium, we rarely have anything that even resembles nature and that includes a fairly loose substrate. Drag a fish across your lawn and do the same in a terrarium with peat moss substrate for example and you'll know what I mean. In the wild, the soil is compact and tied together by roots. The wild is nothing like a terrarium.