My first garter ?

[INTREPiiD]

I'm a teenager, and I love love love snakes. Always have. My brother used to have a cornsnake, but now that all my siblings are gone, and after much research, I've decided I want a garter snake. I always loved playing with them when I'd find them in the garden. I have a few questions though..

I have a 100-gallon aquarium to put him/her in. I want to use a 50/50 peat/sterile sand substrate. Is this acceptable ?

My step-dad is the one who will be helping me out the most with the snake. He's a vegetarian and really doesn't want to feed the snake pinkies, fuzzies, or any other mouse. What are some alternatives (he's not too big on the nightcrawlers, either, and neither am I, because that means feeding a LOT more often) to mice that we can use ?

Who is the best supplier of garters, in your own experience ?

Thanks so much. :]

[adamanteus]

Hi Michelle, and welcome to the forum.:)
Sometimes, if you're very good, we allow you to use BIG type here.:D

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard. :)

Unfortunately (?) snakes aren't vegetarians and they will need to eat animals. Garters probably do best on a mixed diet of mice, worms and fish. As far as alternatives go, there aren't really any that I could recommend.

[jeanette]

hello Intrepid and welcome.
diet for your garters is quite important, fish pinkies and earthworms are a good balanced diet for your garters. im sure someone here will give you a link to a caresheet. im still pretty new at garters myself.

[adamanteus]

Link to caresheet...
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet

I must agree with the others, variety is of the utmost importance. In captive Garters this would normally include pinkies, 'safe' fish and nightcrawlers.

[Zephyr]

Does he disapprove of using live or pinkies in general?
Frozen then thawed pinkies are available and are generally cheaper in bulk.

[adamanteus]

As Stefan says, Garters (all snakes) are carnivorous, and if we choose to keep them captive we must cater to their needs. I respect anyone's decision to be veggie or otherwise. I myself live on nothing but nicotine and alcohol (and a little houmous), but we cannot impose our beliefs on our animals. We must care for them in the correct manner.

[jeanette]

As Stefan says, Garters (all snakes) are carnivorous, and if we choose to keep them captive we must cater to their needs. I respect anyone's decision to be veggie or otherwise. I myself live on nothing but nicotine and alcohol (and a little houmous), but we cannot impose our beliefs on our animals. We must care for them in the correct manner.
only nicotine and alcohol? i cant get through the day if i dont get my coffee, nobody will talk to me unless i have at least had 1 cup of coffee. Im veggie too, still feed the family meat and the animals, cant push my views upon others. :)

[INTREPiiD]

Oh, no, no no no noo. I didn't mean that I wanted the garter to be vegetarian by any means. He's opposed to feeding it mice, is all. I guess I'm going to have to force him to get over it; I'm the one who is going to be feeding it, anyhow !

Any advice on the substrate ?

[INTREPiiD]

Link to caresheet...
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet

I must agree with the others, variety is of the utmost importance. In captive Garters this would normally include pinkies, 'safe' fish and nightcrawlers.

What types of fish are "safe" ?

[adamanteus]

only nicotine and alcohol? :)

I was joking. I eat anything and everything that comes my way.:D

[adamanteus]

What types of fish are "safe" ?

Good 'safe' fish, which are easily obtainable would include trout, salmon and tilapia. All available for human consumption from the local supermarket/fishmonger.

[Zephyr]

Also, from the reports I've read on butler's garter snakes, their wild diet seems to consist of around 80% worms and 20% leeches... Both NOT vertebrates. :P

[Stefan-A]

I myself live on nothing but nicotine and alcohol (and a little houmous)
"Last time I was sober, man I felt bad
Worst hangover that I ever had
It took six hamburgers and scotch all night
Nicotine for breakfast just to put me right"

Just one of those random things that pop into your head. :rolleyes:

[INTREPiiD]

Good 'safe' fish, which are easily obtainable would include trout, salmon and tilapia. All available for human consumption from the local supermarket/fishmonger.

How can I feed these to the garter ? Just lay out thawed-out chunks of fillet ?

[jeanette]

rofl stefan :D

[Stefan-A]

rofl stefan :D
Dire Straits - Heavy Fuel

[adamanteus]

How can I feed these to the garter ? Just lay out thawed-out chunks of fillet ?

If you cut the fish into meal sized portions before you freeze it, you can just thaw one portion at feeding time. This is then cut into easy to swallow sized strips, offered either in forceps or on a little dish.

[INTREPiiD]

So I take it that I should buy this trout/salmon/tilapia fresh, not frozen, at the supermarket ?

[Stefan-A]

Oh, no, no no no noo. I didn't mean that I wanted the garter to be vegetarian by any means. He's opposed to feeding it mice, is all. I guess I'm going to have to force him to get over it; I'm the one who is going to be feeding it, anyhow !
Yeah, that's what I was sort of implying. That a person who wants to keep snakes needs to get over things like this. :)

[Zephyr]

If you cut the fish into meal sized portions before you freeze it, you can just thaw one portion at feeding time. This is then cut into easy to swallow sized strips, offered either in forceps or on a little dish.
Don't forget the vitamin supplements! :D Fillets sans bone lack calcium...

[adamanteus]

Don't forget the vitamin supplements! :D ...

Or better still, the pinkies and nightcrawlers.;)

[Zephyr]

Or better still, the pinkies and nightcrawlers.;)Either works. :P

[adamanteus]

Either works. :P
Well, maybe. But vitamin supplements are no substitute for food.

[INTREPiiD]

Where can I get the pinkies, and for how much ? Can I feed them pinkies for their entire lifespan, or do I eventually have to graduate them to fuzzies, hoppers, jumpers, then adult mice ?

[jeanette]

you can get pinkies from reptile supply stores, or some ordinary petshops. you have to feed according to the snakes size you can get varying sizes of pinkies just as you can get varying size of fuzzies. ask for the size you want. i make my supplier sort through his bag of pinkies to find the size i want for my garters just as i do when i buy pinkies for my pyxie frog or my pacman frog.

[Stefan-A]

Where can I get the pinkies, and for how much ? Can I feed them pinkies for their entire lifespan, or do I eventually have to graduate them to fuzzies, hoppers, jumpers, then adult mice ?
Most pet stores carry them. I suppose. If not, you may have to find a breeder, order the pinkies or breed them yourself.

You can feed them pinkies for their entire lifespan, but I know that with the prices I'm paying for my pinkies, it's a lot cheaper to feed them bigger mice once they can eat them. The price difference is so small, that the price per weight unit drops significantly as the size of the mouse increases. For example, two pinkies cost me 1.5 - 1.8 times as much as a single crawler. Then again, I have no idea how much they cost over there.

[adamanteus]

I only use pinkies... no fuzzies, hoppers etc. Bigger snakes just get more. That said, 60% of my snakes' diet is fish.

[Lori P]

Hi Michelle, and welcome! Hope you enjoy it here. :-)

[anji1971]

Hello and welcome! :)

[Sid]

Welcome to a great forum, Michelle.

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Michelle :)

[Snaky]

Welcome to the forum and have fun here :)

[bulrush]

I paid $1us each for pinkies at my pet store. That seemed a little high to me. You might get volume discounts if you ask.

[Snake lover 3-25]

wow and i thaught 50 cents was bad!!!!!!! :eek::eek: that sucks!!!!!!!!!:(:(:(:(

[Zephyr]

I buy my pinks in bulk. 100 pinks/fuzzies for $38, so about 38 cents each. :P

[Snake lover 3-25]

i buy 100 for $50 :(:(:( where do you get yours...........???????? although the shipping would prob. split the diff........:(:(:(

[Zephyr]

i buy 100 for $50 :(:(:( where do you get yours...........???????? although the shipping would prob. split the diff........:(:(:(I forget the name of the place I get them from. XD
But it's at the local reptile show, and you could actually cut the price per pink to about 30 cents, seeing as they give me a lot more in the bag then should be in there. :P

[Snake lover 3-25]

LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!!! i have to work at a pool teaching swimming lessons to feed them!!!!!!!:(:( my parent's would prob. pay 4 me...... but that would give them 1 more reason to make me get rid of one.........:(:( and this way i have a good argument...... bc i have paid for everything that tey have and eat!!!!!!! lolol my parent's don't hate them...... but they don't love them either............:D:D

[Stefan-A]

wow and i thaught 50 cents was bad!!!!!!! :eek::eek: that sucks!!!!!!!!!:(:(:(:(
You know what really sucks? Paying 4 times the price of your pinkies.

[Zephyr]

LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!!! i have to work at a pool teaching swimming lessons to feed them!!!!!!!:(:( my parent's would prob. pay 4 me...... but that would give them 1 more reason to make me get rid of one.........:(:( and this way i have a good argument...... bc i have paid for everything that tey have and eat!!!!!!! lolol my parent's don't hate them...... but they don't love them either............:D:DSame here.
My parents tolerate them. The only reason I have so many is because I keep my GPA high (4.0+) and I pay for all they eat.

[INTREPiiD]

I found 100 pinkies for $13, roughly .13 per pinkie. Wow, y'all pay a lot ! :] Also, I'm waiting for a Puget Sound Garter batch to hatch later this summer, from albinogartersnake.com. Don't suppose anyone's had any experience with him ?

[ssssnakeluvr]

I found 100 pinkies for $13, roughly .13 per pinkie. Wow, y'all pay a lot ! :] Also, I'm waiting for a Puget Sound Garter batch to hatch later this summer, from albinogartersnake.com. Don't suppose anyone's had any experience with him ?

several people here have puget's....keep watching the forum to see when babies are born.

[drache]

I found 100 pinkies for $13, roughly .13 per pinkie. Wow, y'all pay a lot ! :] Also, I'm waiting for a Puget Sound Garter batch to hatch later this summer, from albinogartersnake.com. Don't suppose anyone's had any experience with him ?

Alinogartersnake.com is Scott Felzer
many people here have had experience with him because he is probably the biggest breeder of garters in the US
he is also a really nice guy with fantastic snakes
that being said - I'm pretty sure there'll also be people on this forum with Puget babies