Why wont she eat her pinkies?

[jeanette]

Ok many of you know ive had a pair of Garters for about a month and a half, When i got them they were feeding primarily on pinkies. after some advice ive also added earthworms into their diet. the male wont touch the earthworms at all. he refuses to even be anywhere near them :confused:.
the female however, loves the earthworms she especially loves it if i drop them into her water bowl where they wriggle like crazy so she can play at hunting. the female now though, is refusing to eat pinkies, im so confused. what am i doing wrong?

[Stefan-A]

Oh that sounds so familiar. :) I can't say what you're doing wrong, but about a year ago, I fed my female worms once and she refused to eat anything else after that, until about 6 months later. She ate three or four mice during that whole time, most of them during the first couple of months and later one mouse I had covered with worms in a futile attempt to get her to eat mice again.

Had to brumate her to get her to snap out of it.

[jeanette]

OH!!! will she eventually go back to eating pinkies then? as it is every pinkie shes refusing is being fed to my Pyxie frog, hes getting a bit spoilt lol

[Stefan-A]

She might. I got the impression that it's not guaranteed. In my case, I was ultimately left with two options: brumation and force feeding. Of course I can't say if your snake will be as stubborn as mine was, maybe scenting is enough for yours. :)

More about my little charlie foxtrot over here:
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/1909-running-out-tricks-need-advice.html

[jeanette]

i did think about trying scenting, i will try that option i think before brumating her, shes only young and i dont want to risk putting her through a brumation. If she wont eat pinkies then she has other foods she can be fed i guess. Thanks stefan :)

[adamanteus]

It is odd how some Garters seem to do this.
I feed all my Garters on trout (60%), pinkies (30%) and earthworms (10%)... they will take any of these with equal enthusiasm.

[Stefan-A]

My tetrataenia and my deceased parietalis male had no problems switching between worms, mice and fish. My vagrans were temporarily off feed when I offered them worms, so I can't draw any conclusions about them. But the female sure did get addicted to them.

[jeanette]

It is odd how some Garters seem to do this.
I feed all my Garters on trout (60%), pinkies (30%) and earthworms (10%)... they will take any of these with equal enthusiasm.
So i guess Celie is just an awkward snake :D. must take after her owner :D

[bulrush]

I did feed my WC garter a couple worms, then I tried feeding him a pinkie. I even sliced open the stomach skin to entice him. He wouldn't touch it. I even warmed it up in a baggie in warm water. Nothing, he didn't even notice it. But he loves nightcrawlers from the store. I'm just worried he is getting enough calcium. Which is the reason I was trying to get him to eat pinkies.

[dashnu]

I did feed my WC garter a couple worms, then I tried feeding him a pinkie. I even sliced open the stomach skin to entice him. He wouldn't touch it. I even warmed it up in a baggie in warm water. Nothing, he didn't even notice it. But he loves nightcrawlers from the store. I'm just worried he is getting enough calcium. Which is the reason I was trying to get him to eat pinkies.

Same exact issue here.. I bought some calcium and sprinkel it on the worms.. I wish I could get them to eat pinkys. I tried thawing out a pinky cut in two long ways in the worm container. Then at feeding time put out one worm and one half pinky... No takers on the pinky, lol even the one who didnt get the worm!!

[jeanette]

SUCCESS!!!!!! i warmed up a pinky, cut a worm open and scented the pinkie with the insides of the worm then pierced the pinkies stomache. Celie ate it!!! she couldnt get it down fast enough. Im so pleased :) See if it works for you bulrush and dashnu :)

[Stefan-A]

Great news. :)

[jeanette]

Great news. :)
It really is :) im afraid my kids now think im nuts because i was ummmm a bit enthusiastic over it :)

[dashnu]

SUCCESS!!!!!! i warmed up a pinky, cut a worm open and scented the pinkie with the insides of the worm then pierced the pinkies stomache. Celie ate it!!! she couldnt get it down fast enough. Im so pleased :) See if it works for you bulrush and dashnu :)

Wow! Your like a mad scientist !! I Got a pinky under warm water right now, I'll let you know. Great idea.

[jeanette]

hope it works for you too dashnu :)

[Lori P]

I've finally realized that it's all just a head game our snakes play with us... they convince us they loooooooooove something and then the next time you offer it, they won't go near it. And they snicker about it to their pals. Then, two months later, they devour it again as if they'd never stopped....

[Loren]

I've finally realized that it's all just a head game our snakes play with us... they convince us they loooooooooove something and then the next time you offer it, they won't go near it. And they snicker about it to their pals. Then, two months later, they devour it again as if they'd never stopped....

Ha ha Lori. Yeah, some snakes are like that.

Personally, once I get snakes to take rodents, thats generally all I offer them- for the very reasons described in this thread. I have not seen any adverse effects to a rodent-only diet, although I guess it takes a snake lifetime to know for sure(my oldest garters are going on 5-6 years in my care), also, I dont breed them.
I do use scenting often to get them started- primarily treefrogs and guppies, although it sounds like worms work well too(I have never actually fed a worm to a garter).
At first, I rinse the pinky off good and scent it heavily, then over time, with each feeding, rinse less and scent only the front half, to allow them to slowly accept the mouse-taste as food.

[anji1971]

Since we're on the feeding topic...........
Chili finally decided she likes rainbow trout! I offered her a piece for the umpteenth time last night, and this time she snapped it right up. She ended up eating half of Deejay's dinner, so that Deejay, my little snugglebug, tried to eat me when she didn't get enough.:eek: It was quite funny!!

[jeanette]

I've finally realized that it's all just a head game our snakes play with us... they convince us they loooooooooove something and then the next time you offer it, they won't go near it. And they snicker about it to their pals. Then, two months later, they devour it again as if they'd never stopped....
hahahaha you could be right :D

[bulrush]

Glad something worked.

[Jenlang_79]

I do not understand why all these people are telling you to feed your snake a variety of food. A variety is only needed IF your snake is not eating pinkies. Mice have all the nutrients your snake needs to be healthy. If you are feeding your snake worms, fish, or anything else you need to feed a variety. The best thing you can do is get your snake back on pinkies and quit feeding the worms. Most garters will take worms over pinkies more readily because that is what they eat in the wild and what they recognize as food, so feeding worms sometimes makes your snake not want the pinkies. I have had garters for years and this is the best food for them. Good luck with your new snake, garters are great snakes to have as pets!:)

[adamanteus]

Pinkies have far too high a fat content to be used as a stand-alone diet. They also lack certain nutrients (phosphorous for example) which are essential for long term health and growth.
Variety is needed.

[KITKAT]

Adamanteus is right... variety is needed. And in response to other posts, here and elsewhere, did you know that slugs contain calcium? Many slugs have a vestigal shell inside them... a little chip of calcium carbonate inside their tissues.

Who woulda guessed?:D

[Loren]

Pinkies have far too high a fat content to be used as a stand-alone diet. They also lack certain nutrients (phosphorous for example) which are essential for long term health and growth.
Variety is needed.
Just out of curiosity, in your opinion- what about garters that are large enough to eat half-grown mice? Do you think they can be fed mice only if the mice are half grown? Is the fat content thing mainly an issue in baby mice?

[adamanteus]

I don't really know, Loren. A half grown mouse would seem to be a better meal with fully formed bones and so on, and you would expect it to contain less fat than a pinky. I prefer to play safe and give me snakes as wide a variety as I can. I've never had a problem switching between pinks, fish and worms. Mine will take any of these with equal enthusiasm.

[drache]

my Sammy will down a fully grown mouse (f/t)
she's also the one who will eat everything
many of my garters have clear nutritional preferences and will not eat what's not their preference, but I don't offer them amphibians and rarely worms
hardly any of my garters like worms, but those who do, go nuts over them - well, it's Sammy and she goes nuts over every kind of food

[infernalis]

I cannot form an opinion, I enjoy feeding the variety.

My wild caught "Normal" garters (Spot, Princess and Zig) all eat the following.

worms, guppies, newts, tadpoles, small toads, slugs & salamanders.

They have been eating this no problem, it is the menu they chose from before I caught them.

My flames, Puget, melanistic and snows - no WC amphibians, I am not going to risk it with expensive morphs. However Garter snakes have "iron" digestive systems, and I don't think too many parasites will survive the acid bath. Think about it, they are about the only snake documented as eating rancid carrion.

Worms are sticky, so calcium supplements stick nicely, AND I mix FLUKERS high calcium cricket feed with my worm food.

Worms are almost pure protein and no fat & I have not met a garter snake yet that does not like guppies.

I breed my own mice for the milks, python and monitor. But I cannot bring myself to clubbing a live pinky, or any desire to watch them swallowed alive. (it's already difficult to witness the monitor slamming the little buggers into his rock pile, at least they are dead real quickly)

I know a lot of keepers prefer the mice, but my snakes have all grown and flourished just fine on the all natural garter diet. And I know that folks that do not live on a big old farm may not be able to obtain all the food items we can get, so city folks are best sticking to what is sold at stores.

Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey

[Jenlang_79]

The only thing that can be a concern about feeding fish and worms is that your snake can get parasites from either..even if they are store bought..which can make you snake very sick and even possibly die. It does not always happen but it is a risk. Also mice are nutritionally sound..I do not know where you get your information from..but you are wrong.

[Jenlang_79]

Ok..so I should apoligize since I have been looking on the web and different sites will tell you different things. The majority of the sites however will tell you that pinkies are the best choice. I have been feeding the pinkies to my snakes(the ones that will accept them) for years now with no ill effects. Here is one of the web sites.
garter-ribbonsnakes - Care Sheets Information about Garter Snake Snakes garter-ribbonsnakes ,characteristics and sexing, Description of Diet, Diet-Carnivorous,Supplements, Nutrition and Usage - calcium and vitamins, Lighting and UVB,Tempatures and Hu (http://www.repticzone.com/caresheets/883.html)

[Jenlang_79]

Here is another good site.
Articles • mcwetboy.com (http://www.mcwetboy.com/articles/the_seven_rules.php)

[jeanette]

ok now im confused, so many different opinions

[adamanteus]

Jennifer, I hear you, but the net isn't always the best source of information... you need to sort out the rubbish from the facts....
A quote from a piece I read on the internet..."All snakes are poisonous, the danger is in their forked tongue". Okay...right! Not relevant to the current discussion, I know, but it goes to show how misleading the internet can be.
I don't 'Google', I only speak from knowledge I have gained through experience.... 40 years of it. Other people will have different experiences and different opinions.
If you ask an open forum for opinion, you're going to get a lot of conflicting answers, all you can do is use your own judgement and experience to decide which advice is right for you.

[Jenlang_79]

Ok I understand you..and I do not get my information from the net...I was just trying to figure out where you get yours. I have raised and kept many garter snakes over the years and I speak with experience. I understand that you prefer to believe the other way..and that is your personal choice..I do what I think is best for my snakes. I prefer not to risk any diseases from fish and worms. But I am not trying to fight with you, people feel very strongly your way too I guess...I just have never had a problem and many people will agree with me that this is the best diet..as I am sure many people will argue. Thanks

[adamanteus]

I know that rodents are a good diet... I use them all the time, but not exclusively.
Long, long ago I started a thread that made me most unpopular for a while...... I posted it 'for the sake of argument', just to make people think a little more...
Have a read through it, Jenny, then you'll see how my opinions are often not those of the snake keeping community as a whole.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/511-rodent-diet.html?highlight=Rodent+Diet

[infernalis]

Just simply reporting my own experience :-)

I also set up my cages to simulate nature, it's just me and my thing...

Please don't ever take offense to anything I have to say, I'm just a grumpy old man with too much time on my hands..and I love to talk snakes with anyone who will listen (and sometimes even those who dont:D)

Kind regards,
Wayne A. Harvey

[beaniesmommy]

Wow, I just read this link... And honestly dekaybrown & adamanteus, I will take your years of experience & useful knowledge anyday. I didn't think either one of you were offensive at all. I was really surprised to see that it was interpreted that way. Hum is all I can say...

[Jenlang_79]

Wow, I just read this link... And honestly dekaybrown & adamanteus, I will take your years of experience & useful knowledge anyday. I didn't think either one of you were offensive at all. I was really surprised to see that it was interpreted that way. Hum is all I can say...

I was talking to adamanteus when I said I did not want to argue...so sorry if anyone took it the wrong way. And I did not find anything anyone has said to me offensive. I am confused about what I said that made you think that (Beaniesmommy) Sorry if I came off the wrong way to you guys..I love talking about snakes with people and if your on here...I think your probably pretty awsome. So for the record again...I was only talking to adamanteus not anyone else. I was not saying that he was argueing with me...I was just saying I was not going to go back and forth with him on this issue anymore, I respect his opinion. I prefer to peaceful with other people. I really am a nice person and I am not mad or offended by anyone.

[Jenlang_79]

For adamanteus:

Oh and I forgot...I really do respect you for your experience..you have had more than me..I am only 28 years old and I am sure you know alot about snakes....I have fed mine pinkies for a long time.(about 15 years) without any problems....but I am sure that the way you feed them is very good. And maybe I am wrong and I will look into that. Take care and please people...don't think I am taking things offensivly...I see this as constructive critisism and nothing else...I don't take it personally and there was nothing personal to take...anyways..Have a good day..and sorry if I upset any of you.:)
(Please forgive my spelling errors)

[Jenlang_79]

Sorry it is me again...just wanted to clear another thing up

...I just have never had a problem and many people will agree with me that this is the best diet..as I am sure many people will argue. Thanks

All I ment is I am sure lots of other people would disagree...was not directing it at anyone..was not saying anyone was arguing with me...just ment that people have other opinons..and that is ok...alright..I will be more careful with my words in the future

[dashnu]

Sorry it is me again...just wanted to clear another thing up


All I ment is I am sure lots of other people would disagree...was not directing it at anyone..was not saying anyone was arguing with me...just ment that people have other opions..and that is ok...alright..I will be more careful with my words in the future

ROFL, Way to clear up a situation :) Thats a lot of explaining in all those posts ;)

[Loren]

If you ask an open forum for opinion, you're going to get a lot of conflicting answers, all you can do is use your own judgement and experience to decide which advice is right for you.
That is the bottom line on using the internet for any information- period. And if if you dont have good judgement/experience on a particular area, find many different sources on the subject and see what the popular answer is- dont just go by the first thing you read.
But nothing beats your own judgement(hopefully).
:)

[adamanteus]

Whoa! Whoa! What argument? What disagreement?
Jenny and I were simply debating feeding issues. There was certainly never intention on my part to be argumentative or patronising. I don't think Jenny was in any way out of line either. We can't always agree on everything all the time.

Jenny, if I came across in any other way, I apologise. I thought we were just talking.:) If I gain people's respect, that's fine. But I don't demand it, I must earn it as everyone must.

I must re evaluate the way I write my posts... so often now our threads seem to break down into bickering.

[Jenlang_79]

LOL!! Yea..Me too!! .I was not offended by anything so don't worry about it...I actually really enjoyed our conversation..Like I said before..it is constructive..:D

[adamanteus]

Great! ..... big hug? :D

[Jenlang_79]

LOL!! Sure:p

[dashnu]

Awwwww, I want in!! **Group Hug**

[Lori P]

Jenny, watch James' hands when he gives you that hug!!! :D:D

[Jenlang_79]

Jenny, watch James' hands when he gives you that hug!!! :D:D


LOL!! Ok I will...James seems like you have quite the reputation!!:D

[adamanteus]

I have no idea why. I'm sure I don't deserve it.;)

[jeanette]

lmao James is a ladies man :D :D :D :D

[Spiritwolf]

I got some babies that were started on pinky parts, and the boys decided to starve themselves after they arrived at my home. After four weeks, I gave in and started feeding them earthworms because at that point I figured it was better to give in and let them have worms and wait until they get to be larger before trying to get them back on pinkies. My adult garters have learned to eat pinkies scented with earthworms, except JC prefers her pinky served with an earthworm wrapped around it. Then she eats the PINKY first and the worm for dessert!

[Garter_Gertie]

I intend to feed my boys at home how I feed Winnie - with a varied diet. I may not use WC fish with the boys, but I intend to give them fish and pinkies. I've got to think about the worms, though. The worms I give Winnie are from the park and have no pesticides, etc. I suppose angle worms that have been farmed would be okay.

Besides being able to give Winnie a variety that I'm assuming she'd like (shrugs shoulders) by giving different foods I'm not caught hanging should that particular food become no longer available. Example, fish - from the river - and worms can't be had during certain parts of the year. Hence me wanting to Winnie on f/t and thankfully she didn't hesitate.

So, I've two reasons for wanting to give my snakes a varied diet. And I'm happy with my choice.