I'm bummed...

[ssssnakeluvr]

My normal red spot had her babies this morning....9 of them. nice large litter, however....8 were dead. One lone male survived....all appeared to be healthy. :(

[Stefan-A]

Sorry to hear that, Don. :( Hope the one male makes it.

[adamanteus]

Bad news, Don.:(
But why does this happen? Can we avoid it?

[drache]

Don
I'm so sorry to hear about the poor survival rate of that litter
I'd be bummed too
any idea what went wrong?
I hope the survivor thrives for you

[ssssnakeluvr]

heres some photos of the babies....4 broke the sac, but didn't survive, 4 died in their sac....

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//504/babies2.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//504/babies_2.jpg

here's the lone male!!!

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//504/medium/lone_male.jpg

and here's the male with my daughter and assistant Kelly

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//504/assistant.jpg

[count dewclaw]

Don, so sorry!

[adamanteus]

It's a real shame, Don. That they should fully develop just to die at this point. I'm really sorry.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I have no idea what happened....temps were ok, all appear to have been normal babies....mom was doing good, healthy.... she didn't shed before giving birth...most garters I have had usually shed a week before giving birth. she did go off feed the last 2 weeks but I don't think that had anything to do with it. Mother nature is a cruel woman!!!

[ssssnakeluvr]

yea, it sucks. thanks everyone. I am keeping a good eye on my high red oregon red spot...she still has few weeks to go before she pops....hope they all survive!!!!

[reptileparadise]

Damn, that sucks Don!
The lone male looks huge though!

[ssssnakeluvr]

red spots have large babies...around 7-8 inches long.

[Loren]

Thats too bad Don. Would those be oregon red spots (t.concinnus)?

[ssssnakeluvr]

yes. my orange colored female was the one that had the babies. the high red one still has a couple weeks left.

here's a link to photos of both...
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/2876-gravid-red-spots.html

the one pictured on top gave birth...still waiting ont he other.

[anji1971]

Don, so sorry to hear about the poor outcome.:(:(
Hope the little survivor does well, and best wishes for the other expectant mom.

[Snake lover 3-25]

oh man...... that really stinks..... how often is there a death in a litter?????? mine had 18..... all living and no dead.....:confused:

[gregmonsta]

Crossing fingers for the next litter mate.

[Sid]

Really sorry to hear the bad news, Don. Sincerely hope all goes well with the other one.

[ssssnakeluvr]

oh man...... that really stinks..... how often is there a death in a litter?????? mine had 18..... all living and no dead.....:confused:
it's not unusual to lose 1 or 2...whole litter sucks tho.

[Snake lover 3-25]

yes that REALLY does suck....:(:(:(:(

[Zephyr]

Aww, it's okay Don.
You'll be getting plenty of babies from my gal. :)
Also, I was wondering this... If one were to manually open the sack on individuals who seemed to be having trouble, would they live? Are they attached to the sack?

[adamanteus]

Yes, Kyle. You can help them out of the sack, but to be honest if they can't do that for themselves what chance do they have of coping with more demanding tasks?

[Lori P]

oh, man, that does suck, Don. But, I will say, your one little boy is a really handsome and healthy looking little fella... keep us posted!!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

you know sometimes... it almost seems like one will come out of the mom, but not be "awake" yet... its like they are still asleep! sometimes I poke them a little if I am around when they are being born and that usually stirs them to break the sac. if it doesnt I pick them up and rub them with the palms of my hands presed lightly together. you would be surprised at how many would-be stillborns wake up when you do that!!

[Snaky]

That's so sad to hear, Don. I hope you have more luck with the other female...

[Loren]

Don, you said something about no pre-lay shed, could they have been prematurely born?

[Tori]

I was wondering that myself Loren. It is so sad to hear about the babies, but how is the mother doing?

[ssssnakeluvr]

well....don't think they were premature...all appeared normal and appropriiately sized...timing was right too.....not sure what went wrong. you can help them out of the sac...have done that before. but this time I came in and found them all dead....didn't catch her giving birth.

[jeanette]

i am so sorry :(
hope this never happens to you again

[enigma200316]

sorry to hear this Don, hope the male survives.............

[paclc1]

sorry don !!! hope the high red mama makes you proud tho.

[Snaky]

Yes, Kyle. You can help them out of the sack, but to be honest if they can't do that for themselves what chance do they have of coping with more demanding tasks?
There was an article in 'The Garter snake' on that. This might depend on the surface used. With some surfaces the sack sticks to it and it's easier to open it for the little ones than with other surfaces.

I don't know how far this is correct, as this article is on own experience. But if you believe it, the substrate makes the job easier or not.