Paige and Dickson.

[adamanteus]

As most of you will be aware, Lulu's albino T.marcianus had babies a few weeks ago. Most doing fine and are now on pinky parts.
However there are two exceptions.... Paige & Dickson.... who steadfastly refuse to eat anything.
Lulu has asked me if I would take this pair on, and see if I can turn things around. If I can, they're mine!:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//539/medium/non_eaters.jpg

I thought it might make an interesting thread if I was to keep you all updated with their progress (or lack of it) and the things I try to get them started. Maybe a chance to take some 'force-feeding' pictures etc.

For now I have housed them in a small plastic box with small water bowl and a single hide. I have raised the temperature slightly and allowed the humidity to rise abnormally high.... enough to cause the paper towel substrate to crinkle slightly.

I'll keep you informed.;)

[Lulu Bennett]

paige and dickson? awwww
i hope you manage to get them eating.
you think they are male and female?
i went through the others and decided which i thought was male and female. at the moment i have about 10 females and four males lol

[drache]

good luck, James
I hope you can improve their little appetites

[Snake lover 3-25]

Ditto GOOD LUCK:D

[reptileparadise]

Good luck with them! I'm quite confident they will start eating...one way or another!

[gregmonsta]

;) fingers crossed

[Sid]

I have nothing but confidence that Paige and Dickson are in fully capable hands, Keep us posted, James.

[Zephyr]

Just some advice: One of my checkered babies is kind of a "slow" eater. She doesn't really have the appetite her brother has. However, what she always goes after is live fish. The jerking movements seem to really kick her predator skills into gear.

[anji1971]

Best of luck to you, James!! Hope to hear that you have a healthy, hungry pair soon!
Go Paige & Dickson!!!!:D:):D

[Lori P]

If anyone can get them going, it's certainly you James... I look forward to their progress!!

[enigma200316]

Good luck James hope everything turns out well......................:)

[adamanteus]

Thanks for all the well-wishes guys!
Looks like this thread might not be so long and interesting after all.......

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//539/medium/first_meal.jpg

After two hours.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//539/medium/fat_full.jpg

Fat and Full! (and looking for more).

Paige weighs 1.8g and Dickson 1.7g...... After their meal!
Bless.:D

[reptileparadise]

wow...thats quick!

Lets hope everything goes well from now! (even though that will result in a "short and boring" thread)

[drache]

that was quick
did you do anything special?

[adamanteus]

that was quick
did you do anything special?

I just raised the temperature and humidity (which is now back to normal) and offered trout pieces in the tweezers.

[drache]

thanks
I forget about these simple measures
but temp raising has worked for me a couple of times

and they are lovely snakes, even though they're albinos

[Lulu Bennett]

hahaha i think i might have given you the wrong two ifthey are eating that quick lol
congrats hun xxx

[Lori P]

Oh, they are soooooo cute and wow, that was quick indeed!! It's all in James' magic fingers!!

I think I really really neeeeeeeeeed an albino or two....

[adamanteus]

hahaha i think i might have given you the wrong two if they are eating that quick lol
congrats hun xxx

If you think I have the wrong ones, you can give me the rest if you like, Lulu.:)

[anji1971]

Wow, instant results..............gotta love that!
Congrats, James!:)

[Stefan-A]

Congratulations, James. :D

[ssssnakeluvr]

Awesome! I need some of those albinos!!!!!!!

[enigma200316]

sweet, James your the man!!!!!!congrats, and you still can keep us updated on their progress......;)

[adamanteus]

Thanks guys.


James your the man!!!!!!;)

Ain't that the truth?!! :rolleyes:;):D
Of course I will continue to post frequent updates of Paige and Dickson, for as long as you're interested.:)

[ssssnakeluvr]

Ain't that the truth?:rolleyes:;):D
Of course I will continue to post frequent updates of Paige and Dickson, for as long as you're interested.:)
if I'm no longer interested....it's time to bury me!!!

[count dewclaw]

if I'm no longer interested....it's time to bury me!!!

I was thinking something along those lines for myself...:D
They are looking good James.

[enigma200316]

I agree, well put Don..................;):D

[adamanteus]

Paige and Dickson? awwww


By the way, Lulu... my foot is fine now.... thanks for asking!:rolleyes:
(Guys, she was so keen to kiss me, that she stepped down really hard on my foot! What can I say? I'm irresistible! I have to fight the ladies off with a sh1tty stick!);)
....... then I woke up!

[Sid]

Fantastic job, James.:D:D:D

[adamanteus]

Fantastic job, James.:D:D:D

Thanks Sid. Although I didn't do much.:o
I'll keep you all posted.... maybe try scented pinky parts next feeding (Tuesday).

[jeanette]

By the way, Lulu... my foot is fine now.... thanks for asking!:rolleyes:
(Guys, she was so keen to kiss me, that she stepped down really hard on my foot! What can I say? I'm irresistible! I have to fight the ladies off with a sh1tty stick!);)
....... then I woke up!


you sure those garters aint both females and you've just sweet talked them into eating? lol
well done

[Sputnik]

Haha, Jeanette, very good (and probably spot on!) ! :D

If my tetras had gone on holiday to James' they'd both be big and fat by now. Magic touch.

[zooplan]

changing keeping conditions ( including the Keeper)
can cause a lot positive effects:
non feeders to monster feeders
agressive specimen to cuddly pets
...
althought there is nothing special done

good luck, James

[Lulu Bennett]

By the way, Lulu... my foot is fine now.... thanks for asking!:rolleyes:
(Guys, she was so keen to kiss me, that she stepped down really hard on my foot! What can I say? I'm irresistible! I have to fight the ladies off with a sh1tty stick!);)
....... then I woke up!

Hahaha you had me really confuzzled until i read the rest then lol
don't flatter yourself james i fell down the step lol :eek:

[adamanteus]

Dickson has only eaten once so far.... he wasn't interested when I offered food yesterday. Paige on the other hand ate very enthusiastically yesterday.

Today Paige is dead!??:confused: I have no idea why. I'll be keeping a close eye on Dickson now. But to be honest I checked on them both about two hours ago and they were fine.

[Stefan-A]

Damn. Congenital problems?

[adamanteus]

I have no idea, Stefan, but there seem to be no problems with the environment. And Dickson still appears fine.

[Stefan-A]

Let's hope he/she will make it, but something is definitely wrong with those babies.

[enigma200316]

I agree their does seem to be something wrong with the babies......
but what is the question, and lets hope the rest are able to make it threw..

sorry for the loss James......:(

[reptileparadise]

hmmm...thats weird!
Sorry for the loss...I hope Dickson keeps doing fine!
But like Stefan said...somthings wrong with the litter...Lets hope Lulus luck will change with the next litter...

[anji1971]

Oh man...........that's not nice to hear. I wonder what's going on with these poor babies?
Sorry about the loss, James.:(
I'll keep my fingers crossed for Dickson.

[gregmonsta]

Crossing fingers, toes and everything else ...

[Lulu Bennett]

awww James, could it just be the whole litter are stuffed? i am gutted for you hun. i better check on mine again.
Lulu xxx

[adamanteus]

I don't know Lou. I'm a great believer in the 'human error' factor. I'll be assessing everything I did and didn't do, over the next couple of days. It may be that they are all defective in some way, or it may be something we missed.

[Snake lover 3-25]

oh.... that stinks.... so all of the females died but none of the males????!!!!!!!!
james and lulu:D..... i dont think that it was anything that either of you did because both of your females from the same litter died around the smae time even though they had seemed fine even hours earlier....... i don't think that you could have done anything to save them......:(

[drache]

oh no
I'm so sorry you lost her, James
I hope Dickson hangs on all right

[Lulu Bennett]

oh.... that stinks.... so all of the females died but none of the males????!!!!!!!!
james and lulu:D..... i dont think that it was anything that either of you did because both of your females from the same litter died around the smae time even though they had seemed fine even hours earlier....... i don't think that you could have done anything to save them......:(

the 'female' thing was just a guess. i don't have a clue if i was right. i still have one left if i was. Hope, she was one of the ones i found dead in the tub. i put them into water and 3 twiched but only one survived.

[Lori P]

Gosh, I'm so sorry that both of you have had so much trouble with these babies. Too sad. I'm thinking too that these guys just weren't destined to make it... and maybe the next litter will be stronger!!

[Snake lover 3-25]

DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!! so sorry they didn't make it.......:(

[adamanteus]

I just checked on Dickson again. He seems fine, but doesn't feel like eating today, thankyou!

[enigma200316]

I just checked on Dickson again. He seems fine, but doesn't feel like eating today, thankyou!


well just keep an eye on the little bugger..............best wishes:)

[Snake lover 3-25]

yeah.... maybe he's just full!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:

[jeanette]

im so sorry for you guys, james and lu.
its so sad how you have lost these females. im wondering if there is a congenital defect that just affects females too. might be worth a bit of research. Let me e-mail a contact of mine, he deals with mostly amphibians but he might know something.

[reptileparadise]

It could be interesting if this was a 'female problem', but I've noticed that here on the mainland of europe, females are readily available and males are quite rare!

[Lulu Bennett]

Hope passed on last night too. checked on her and she was very sluggish then 20mins later she was upside down. :(

[adamanteus]

Oh, Lou. That's bad news. I'm so sorry.:(
Dickson still appears absolutely fine, but isn't interested in food again today. He is so tiny, and in view of what's happening to all his siblings, I must confess that I doubt he'll survive any real length of time.

[Lulu Bennett]

my other four seem really well but we will see how long this lasts.

[adamanteus]

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//539/medium/Dickson1.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//539/medium/Dickson2.jpg

'Dickson'. 18th May 2008.

It was difficult to get photographs... wriggly little bugger!

[Sid]

My fingers are crossed in hope that the remainder survive for each of you.

[enigma200316]

yes mine are crossed as well......good luck and best wishes.......:)


so sorry again Lulu, I hope the rest do well...........

[jeanette]

Ok ive just got an e-mail back from my contact and he cant think of any congenital defect in garters that would affect only females. He says that there are so many variables that can affect corn snake babies even before they have hatched and this could unfortunately be "just one of those things". :(
I hope the others continue to survive.

[anji1971]

Lulu, so sorry to hear about Hope. :(:(
I was really pulling for her to make it...........

James, I'm sending good wishes for little Dickson. Let's all hope he picks up and grows up strong and healthy.

[Lori P]

So sorry Lulu. Sooo disapointing and sad. :-(

Ok, Dickson, it's all up to you now....

[Snake lover 3-25]

me three..... so sorry about hope........ GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!

[adamanteus]

Just a quick note to bring you all up to date with Dickson's progress.
He ate a couple of pieces of trout this evening, dusted with a little multi-vitamin powder. This is only his third meal since he came here (18 days ago), so he's not exactly greedy.
But, he looks good enough.... tiny, but good.:)

[Zephyr]

Hmm... I'm siding towards blaming these problems on genetics. Like I mention a while ago, the first albino checkereds in captivity must've been hard to acquire, and may be there was a just a lone male bred back to his ma for the trait... Regardless, I'm pretty sure that the specimens we find today are heavily in bred. I guess this is nature's way of telling us that these certain problem specimens may not be cut out for things in the long run.

[adamanteus]

Albinism is certainly a recessive trait... very few survive for any length of time in the wild. Also human albinos have all sorts of health issues. You would expect it to be the same in the rest of the animal kingdom.

[Snake lover 3-25]

yeah........ i'm not sure i like albinos......... they are just so different........ and their eyes are kind of creepie..........:(:(:(

[adamanteus]

To be honest Shanley, I don't like albinos either. It is only because Lulu gave me Paige and Dickson, that I have them. I would never buy one.

[gregmonsta]

I'm not to fond of albinos either ... but there are exceptions!!!!

Super christmas albino plains from Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes, specializing in aberrant garters (http://www.albinogartersnake.com/pricing.htm) looks tasty lol .... mind you I love the paradox leucistic on this page too .... I need to win the lottery!!!! .... Damn Scott Feltzer!!!!

[adamanteus]

Super christmas albino !!!
Even the name annoys me! Almost as bad as 'Creamsicle Corn'!:mad:
Like something you'd buy in a sweet shop.

[Stefan-A]

I personally have a strong dislike for albino animals. Leucistics on the other hand can be quite pretty.

[gregmonsta]

Rofl you get christmas corns too .... Santa specials .... :) it does seem like that .... still want a leucistic tho :D

[Snake lover 3-25]

Super christmas albino plains from Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes, specializing in aberrant garters (http://www.albinogartersnake.com/pricing.htm) looks tasty lol ....


ick no!!!!! that's just what i mean by creepy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(:(:eek:

[anji1971]

I just got an albino Cory for my aquarium, and I think he looks pretty cool..........:cool:
But, I do agree, the red eyes on most albino animals can be kind of weird looking.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

i dont like plain albinos that are just pink or pink and yellow or yellow if it has a nice pattern with orange or red or something like that then its okay.

Even the name annoys me! Almost as bad as 'Creamsicle Corn'!:mad:
Like something you'd buy in a sweet shop.

[Lulu Bennett]

To be honest Shanley, I don't like albinos either. It is only because Lulu gave me Paige and Dickson, that I have them. I would never buy one.

ha if you don't want him i will gladly take him back lol

[adamanteus]

Dickson is still hanging in there. He's still a very poor eater, taking only the smallest of meals and those are occassional.
At the moment he's in a wet bag..... he failed to slough and is all stiff and wrinkly!
I'm waiting for the day when he suddenly realises life is a good thing!:)

[Jenlang_79]

Those are some ugly snakes!!! lol!!! ooohh chill I'm just kidding...thought I would mix it up a bit!! :-)

Congrats James..you are talented!!

[adamanteus]

James..you are talented!!

You don't know the half of it!:p Joking!

[Scaley.Jade]

hows little dickson doin now

[adamanteus]

I helped him out of the old skin this morning.... even after 24 hours of wet-bagging he hadn't sloughed. So I had to use the forceps to peel him.
There's food in his tank now, which he's ignoring.:rolleyes:

[Scaley.Jade]

come on little dickson eat eat

[adamanteus]

Dickson ate the day after I helped with the slough. Then today he accepted a relatively large meal of trout pieces, dusted with multi-vitamins (Nutrobal).

By the way... I think he's a she!:rolleyes:

[ScimitarX]

Great news that he ate:)

[Snake lover 3-25]

ut o then what r u going to name her!!!!!:D:D

[anji1971]

Glad to hear Dickson is eating well. These poor little babies had a rough start, so I'm going to keep pulling for them.:)

[dashnu]

Good luck James! I know when I had a Doberman legit breeders really really frowned at people breeding albinos. Your in fact breeding them with a know health issue.. I assume it would be the same with anything.. Anyways hope she pulls through for you.


-b

[adamanteus]

Your in fact breeding them with a know health issue..

No Brett, I didn't breed these two.... I took them in because they weren't feeding and were beginning to 'fade'.:)

[dashnu]

Yea, I knew that. Bad choice of wording. Clearly high school wasn't big on my priority list :p

[beaniesmommy]

He/she is so tiny I hope she pulls through, you are doing a great job!

[Lori P]

I think Brett meant, breeding albinos is asking for trouble as one is breeding a known defective trait... like in dobies, where the albino ones are prone to skin cancer and deafness. So your little one has a harder road to travel as albinos can be more prone to problems (in many kinds of animals. But does this hold for the snakes? I'm getting awfuly fond of the albino checkerds...)

Send new pics of the little one, James!!

[Snake lover 3-25]

yes!!! we love pics!!!:D:D:D

[ssssnakeluvr]

in captivity the albinos do just fine...never heard of any problems. I need some albino checkereds also...used to have a pair but they passed away a number of years ago.

[dashnu]

I think Brett meant, breeding albinos is asking for trouble as one is breeding a known defective trait... like in dobies, where the albino ones are prone to skin cancer and deafness. So your little one has a harder road to travel as albinos can be more prone to problems (in many kinds of animals. But does this hold for the snakes? I'm getting awfuly fond of the albino checkerds...)

Send new pics of the little one, James!!

Right, I would assume it holds true for snakes.. I don't see any reason it wouldn't.

FWIW, I think they are great looking snakes and wouldn't mind running into a few myself :)

[Scaley.Jade]

nice to hear the little dickson is doing a little better

[Garter_Gertie]

James, how is she? Is she okay? I pray it's so. Let her know I love her and am pulling for her.

[adamanteus]

Bad news Guys.... Dickson died this morning. No big surprise, but still very disappointing.:(

[jeanette]

Bad news Guys.... Dickson died this morning. No big surprise, but still very disappointing.:(
im so sorry :(

[Garter_Gertie]

James, I'm so sorry and wish the outcome would have been different.

[count dewclaw]

So sorry, James.

[Snake lover 3-25]

so sorry.... RIP dickson:(

[jitami]

So sorry James. I know you did everything you could to save these two. :(

[Lori P]

Oh bummer James, I'm sooo sorry to hear that. You certainly tried!

[adamanteus]

Shame I wasn't there...... but then I guess there was nothing I could have done. I kind of knew this was going to happen sooner rather than later.

[anji1971]

Awww, that's too bad, James. I'm so sorry to hear it.:(

[beaniesmommy]

Oh, that is sad. You did everything you could. I have great respect for your willingness to give them a happy life while they were here. :o