Snake Update

[abcat1993]

Well, according to the snake measuring program my snake is roughly 13.9-14.5 inches long. The 13.9 was the first measurment and the 14.5 was the second (just goes to show that the software isn't perfect; that is unless you have a PERFECT picture that is completely flat and not taken at an angle) and last month it was roughly 11.7 (it actually went down somehow from 11.9)
So, in summary, it's grown at leat 2 inches in one month :eek: (I've taken the pictures every fifth of each month)

[Elliot]

Wow, you feed it pinkies right? (just asking because that may be the reason)

[abcat1993]

No, actually it's only eaten one at the most in the past month. I feed it worms on tuesday and friday. I also occasionally dust them with powder too, since I'm not feeding pinkies.

[Elliot]

Oh, cool. I tried to get my ribbon to eat worms but he'll only eat fish and pinkies (not that I should complain).

[abcat1993]

Lucky, mine won't even go near fish (but I haven't tried recently)

[Elliot]

That's kinda weird it's usually getting them to eat pinkies thats hard. :confused:

[Snaky]

If you have something that your snake eats and you want to add to the diet, you can scent the new things with the food he does eat. This trick does wonders most of the time.

[abcat1993]

I've tried, he used to eat pinkies like that but not anymore.

[abcat1993]

Is it weird that my garter sticks his tail straight up and tries wrapping himself around the container (one of those small cricket containers). Also, if he's eating a worm, before he finishes, he rubs the worm in his mouth on the side of the tank.

[suzoo]

Is it weird that my garter sticks his tail straight up and tries wrapping himself around the container (one of those small cricket containers). Also, if he's eating a worm, before he finishes, he rubs the worm in his mouth on the side of the tank.

Don't know if this helps, but in the wild, and I love snake-watching, when a snake gets a worm, the worm is generally partly in a hole, so wrapping around something like a rock or branch, or even blade of grass, gives them leverage to pull the worm out of the hole. Also, the worm will have dirt/debris on it (again in the wild) and rubbing the worm on rocks/branches as they eat it helps remove some of the dirt, so they ingest less of it. Your snake is probably just emulating behavior of a wild snake. (Instinct)? Just my view, I could be totally off. :D

[abcat1993]

Well that would make sense as mine is wild caught

[abcat1993]

I'm congratulating myself for feeding my garter what was possibly it's first fish, and definitely it's first rosy red (unless they are wild and in Wisconsin)

[Sid]

Don't feel alone over the pickie eaters. I have two female T.s.sirtalis than I never managed to get to eat anything but frogs prior to burmation:mad: . Hoping as I bring them out in a couple of weeks they are hungry enough to eat something else!! I've tried scenting and every other trick that has been posted on the forum.

Sid

[zirliz]

I just feed mine live fish minnows and goldfish they eat some dead thawed stickleback I got from college also

[Snaky]

For very poor eaters, I'd certainly try some worms. I've noticed every garter has a very high response to their smell. Except for cyrtopsis, I've yet to see a cyrtopsis eat a worm...

If they eat that, you can always cut them open and rub it on the pinkies... this has never failed me.

[abcat1993]

He's not a picky eater, I just didn't explain it enough. That was the second time I've even tried to feed him (once before he started eating and one after).

[abcat1993]

Hmm, somethings up with my snake. He hasn't eaten for over 2 weeks (2 weeks and 2 days to be exact). If he was about to shed would it make him not eat for that long? Last time it was a couple days before he shed. I just tried again today, so I'll wait till tuesday and try a mouse.

[Stefan-A]

How active is he? More than before, or less? Mating season is approaching and the males can go off-feed for a long time.

Right now I'm regretting that I didn't document my own male's behavior from last spring. But I think it stopped eating at about this time and didn't eat at all for a couple of months. It didn't come as a surprise to me, but it was still a bit unnerving to see that already tiny snake go off feed and race around the terrarium almost nonstop for that long.

[abcat1993]

Yeah, mine is still pretty active. About the same as before, maybe a little more. Too bad I don't have a female also.

[Cazador]

Matt,

Stefan's probably right with breeding season approaching, but please remind us what you're feeding him. You might also want to weigh him if you have a scale that accurately measures 0.1 oz or 1.0 grams. That way you can keep track of whether or not that lack of food affects him. Just to be doubly safe, you might also want to check for a swelling in front of the vent. I don't mean to spook you, but it's always better to have a look for something possibly wrong than it is to simply hope nothing is wrong. Again, Stefan's probably right about breeding season. We'll probably hear a lot more about males refusing to eat over the next few months.

Rick

[Stefan-A]

Since this is my first spring keeping a male and a female together, I don't really know whether to expect the same kind of behavior as last year.

I know I've read something about the presence of a female, but I can't remember if it made a difference or none at all. :D

[abcat1993]

Rick, I'm feeding him nightcrawlers. I'll get some more, these ones are a little slow and skinny.

[Cazador]

Matt,
As I recall, you're also adding calcium powder to the night crawlers, right? Growing young snakes need plenty of calcium for their bones, muscles, and nervous system. Sometimes when they're just being finnicky, a bit of variety gets them to start eating again (fish, rodents, worms, etc.). Maybe you'll have more luck with the mouse next week. Best regards,
Rick

[abcat1993]

Sorry, forgot about the calcium powder. For some reason I didn't buy fish, however, when I went to Petco. :(

[abcat1993]

OK, my snake just shed but the eyecaps are still on. How, exactly, do I get them off? You would think the high RH would help though, as this is his first bad shed (and the shed is HUGE compared to the 2 others).

[adamanteus]

If the brille is still on the eye you could try wrapping "sellotape" around your finger (sticky side out) and pressing it gently against the eye. As you pull away, you may find the spectacle comes away on the tape. Don't be tempted to go in there with tweezers or any other hard object. You could just try "wet-bagging", that may well sort it out.

[abcat1993]

Should I wait to see if he just gets it off by himself first? And, by "wet-bagging" do you mean take a wet paper towel and wipe it over his eyes?

[adamanteus]

Wet bagging....Get a soft cloth bag, maybe a pillow slip, wet it thoroughly with warm water and put the snake in it, tie the top and put it back in the viv overnight. You may well find the brille comes away all by itself. If not, try the sticky tape thing.

[abcat1993]

Ok, I'll see if we have any old pillow cases then. My snake does look kind of cool like this though, with two long things coming out of his eyes and a snakeskin mustache. Sweet.

[Cazador]

Matt,

The spectacles are not likely to come off by themselves and could lead to blindness if they're not removed. The key point is that you have to thoroughly moisten the retained skin and spectacles before trying to remove anything. I've had good luck holding their head under slowly flowing water for a few seconds, then giving them a minute or two to regroup; then wetting them again. Then I'll remove the retained skin.

I hate to mix two methods, so try James' method with the wet bag and tape first. If it doesn't come off, and if there is enough of the retained skin sticking far enough from the eye that you could easily and comfortably grab it, then do so after wetting the snake, and try to slowly peel it off. Put the snake's body in a pillow case or bag before doing so, though, because it will probably musk on you, and will try to thrash around. The bag will restrain the snake and keep it from hurting itself while you're holding it behind the head. Post a picture if you can.

[abcat1993]

OK, pics are on the way, right after my camera finishes looking through the 400 pics on my memory card for the recent ones (It's kinda messed up).

[abcat1993]

OK here we go: tada!

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5206/mattspics705lq1.th.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mattspics705lq1.jpg)

[adamanteus]

Did you try the wet-bag thing?

[abcat1993]

I'm about to put the snake in right now, just checking if I did it right to be sure.

[abcat1993]

Haha, I just realized it says "third shed, a success" under abcat1993, but really, my snakes third shed was NOT a success. Hahahahahahahahaha

[Cazador]

Hey Matt,

That's a lot of skin hanging off the left spectacle. I think you could easily wet it and pull it off with your fingers or with tweezers. If you decide to do this, wet the snake's head twice and give it at least 30 seconds for the water to be absorbed by the old skin. Then put the snake in a pillowcase (or similar) with only its head extending. Hold the snake firm enough that its head can't wiggle around, and brace your snake hand against your leg, a table top, or something steady. Then grab the extra skin in your fingers if possible, or with tweezers and slowly pull it off. I'm sure the old, opaque skin is stressing your snake. If you're not comfortable doing this, get it in the wet bag right away. If the spectacle rips and leaves you without a good "handle," don't try to get too close to the eye with the tweezers. Just be real careful and make sure you have good lighting.

James' method has the advantage that the snake may simply rub the moist spectacle off itself as it's moving around inside the wet bag.
Rick


P.S. Is the right spectacle still on its eye, too?

[abcat1993]

I couldn't get a good picture, but no, I don't think it is on his other eye. How much longer can he go without feeding though? And, how long should he be in the bag? Overnight?

[ClosedCasket88]

ive done that few tiem in my bathtub . but most the time ill give my snake a nice warm soak for about an hour in a sweater box and i give him stuff like rocks to keep him outa the water if he dont like it at the moment, i will put a heat pad under to create lots of humidity , its like a steam room for a snake.i will mist his head here n there through the hour to keep wet. after about 30mins to an hour ill take him/her out and eye caps usualy come off easy


Matt,

The spectacles are not likely to come off by themselves and could lead to blindness if they're not removed. The key point is that you have to thoroughly moisten the retained skin and spectacles before trying to remove anything. I've had good luck holding their head under slowly flowing water for a few seconds, then giving them a minute or two to regroup; then wetting them again. Then I'll remove the retained skin.

I.

[Cazador]

He's looking a little skinny, Matt. I know he hasn't eaten in about three weeks; look at his ventral side (belly) and see if he has a concave appearance with ribs showing on both sides. If so, and if he doesn't decide to eat on his own a few days to a week after you get the spectacle off, you should consider force feeding him. You'll have to use fresh fish or a pinkie, though. I think he's a little too skinny to put into a short hibernation, but others may have a different opinion. Let us know about that poop, okay? Is his tank clean, and does he still have plenty of hides?

Rick

[abcat1993]

No, his ribs are not showing, but he still has about one sixth of his eye covered with the spectacle.

[adamanteus]

Hi Matt,

Do you mean that only part of the spectacle has come away? That it broke as you removed it? Are you sure? That would be most unusual, for the brille to come away in more than one piece. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen that.

How did you finally manage to remove (most of) the spectacle?

[abcat1993]

I put him in the "wet bag" over night. Now, there is a very slight amount of skin left above the left eye and possibly on the eye. I will try to take some macro pictures and see what you guys think. I was in a hurry this morning to get to school, that's why I didn't explain it much.

[adamanteus]

Sounds good. If the spectacle is still on the eye, try the sticky tape trick first. I'd be really cautious about going near the eyes with tweezers, unless you have a really steady hand, Matt.

[adamanteus]

Once you're sure the spectacle is gone I think you should consider getting some weight on that snake. If he won't eat and you're unsure about force/assist feeding just PM me and I'll help if I can.

[abcat1993]

I'm 95% sure that there is nothing on it now, my guess would be that he was rubbing his head on the wet pillow case that I left in there and it came off. He just refused ANOTHER worm and I'll sacrifice a mouse now.

[Cazador]

The best time to offer food for a finnicky snake is when it's "prowling" it's pen. If it's active and searching for something, it's more likely to eat. You might also try cutting the dead pinkie's stomach open to increase the smell of meat and blood. If that doesn't work, you might have to resort to a live, splashing, flopping fish or force-feeding in a few days.

[Stefan-A]

According to my very limited experience, the opposite seems to be true. It's no use trying to offer food while it's busy doing something else. I've had better success offering it food while it is basking or just lying around. A suddenly appearing food item seems to get its undivided attention. Also, I prefer cutting the nose.

Anyway, this is just my own recipe. :)

[Cazador]

Interesting difference, Stefan. I wonder what we do differently that creates the difference among problem feeders?

[Stefan-A]

It's probably just some difference between the snakes themselves, the reason why they won't eat or how we present the food item.

[mikm]

hello all ... At one time, I used to keep Corn Snakes as well as Garters. For problem feeders I would slit the skull of the f/t rodent squeezing a little of the brain matter out :eek: . I became accustomed to doing so and did it for the garters as well. Apparently this worked so well that when I parted with those garters their new owners reported that they had slight difficulty getting them to feed. They literally had to be weaned from the scent of brain matter.

Enjoy Your Day !!
marian

[abcat1993]

I bought some feeding tongs so I can feed it in it's cage now. I would assume that pinkies don't get stuck to fairly large wood chips.

[adamanteus]

Did your snake feed yet Matt? If you're worried about a pinky sticking to the chippings, just lay it on something, a stone, or a piece of wood, whatever. You could try scenting it with worms if you think he might be reluctant to take it as is.

[abcat1993]

I haven't tried cutting the pinky open, so I'll try that tomorrow. No, he hasn't eaten for almost 3.5 weeks now. I'll go to Petco and get some minnows too, unless my dad wants to sacrifice some cardinal tetras or a pleco.
EDIT: Also, don't your snakes move around while feeding? Mine does, so it would have to be a pretty big stone.

[drache]

I wouldnt worry too much about stuff sticking to the food. My snakes always scrape the food against stuff to rub of anything that sticks to it. They do it with worms to get the dirt off. They also do it to help them get the item in a better position.

[abcat1993]

Really? Mine must be stupid cause he eats any and all dirt. Plus, he did once eat part of a cedar shaving once that I couldn't get out. But, these are considerably larger and I will try to feed him right now. Otherwise I think I will go with force feeding. How much longer do you think I have?

[Cazador]

It's a good sign if he's still active, and his ribs aren't showing. You've still got a while, but you don't want to deplete his energy reserves totally. The big question is, "Why has he stopped eating?" Maybe the force feeding will kick start his appetite? Force feeding is easiest with two people when you're just learning. One can hold the snake, and the other can insert a flat, dull object perpendicularly through his mouth. The person with the food holds the food in a pair for forceps or blunt-ended tweezers and tells the "assistant" when to open the snake's mouth. Just open the mouth wide enough to insert the food. The person with the food then inserts it into the back of the snake's mouth/throat. If the snake spits it out, you'll have to insert the food deeper into its throat. You might have to release the food after you've started it moving. Then grab it closer toward you and push it a bit further.

Some snakes seem to get the hang of it and swallow by themselves, but others need to have their mouth held shut to prevent them from spitting it back up. They'll eventually swallow it, though. Again, you might want to put the snake's body in a pillow case to prevent it from musking on you. Don't try to force anything too wide down it's throat, and if you have to make a choice, angle closer toward its vertebral column rather than toward it's jaw structure. Be sure to ask if you're unsure of anything before you start.

Rick

[abcat1993]

Well, I have good news. My snake ate the worlds smallest pinky and a good sized nightcrawler in his enclosure. I guess I'll be feeding in there from now on. Also, I think you might want to sticky how to force feed. It could be usefull.

[Cazador]

I copied those directions for force feeding into an article (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Force_Feeding), but it would be nice to hear about other techniques or ways to improve what I've posted. Feel free to add to it or modify it at will. Cheers,
Rick

[abcat1993]

Nicel done. I'm posting this on a mac I inherited from my grandfather and it is really annoying to type. How I hate Macs...

[adamanteus]

I copied those directions for force feeding into an article (http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Force_Feeding), but it would be nice to hear about other techniques or ways to improve what I've posted. Feel free to add to it or modify it at will. Cheers,
Rick

I find, quite often, that full blown force-feeding isn't necessary.....Sometimes if you simply press the food (best with a pinky) quite firmly against the snakes snout and prevent him from turning his head away, he will just open up and start swallowing! Assist-feeding rather than force-feeding! Try it!;)

[drache]

that sounds less scary than prying their mouth open

[Cazador]

Definitely! The best case scenario is that you just press a fish head toward the side of a snake's mouth, and it opens up. Then you just put the fish's head toward the back of the snake's mouth, and it does the rest for you. There's a continuum of options available, depending on how cooperative the snake is.

Rick

[adamanteus]

Rick, If this forum gets to the point where we can upload video clips, we could have someone such as yourself make a few educational videos to show people this kind of thing. I know force-feeding and certain other activities might be a bit daunting for a novice. Watching someone demonstrate such techniques might help a lot. What do you think?

[abcat1993]

I think you can upload video from Youtube or some other video source, or just post a link to it.

[Cazador]

I think that's a good idea, but I've never used Youtube or uploaded a video anywhere. Maybe someone with experience could e-mail some directions to me, and I'll do it.

[abcat1993]

I've only seen it on other sites that I can't remember the names of right now.
Also: Bump if anybody knows.

[KITKAT]

BUMP!

I couldn't resist.:rolleyes:

But seriously, just visit Youtube and register. Registration is free.

Next, log in.

Once you have logged in, you can see links that were not there before.

Then click on "upload videos".

The process of upload is pretty much the same as it is here... you have a "browse" button, guide it to the file on your computer, and tell it to upload.

One problem I have is that my husband's good camera takes videos that exceed the memory requirements of Youtube... so I take videos with my own camera that has less megapixels, and it does fine.

[abcat1993]

Well, I just measured my snake from a pic from March 6th, and my snake grew another inch + 1/2. And, he/she ate a larger mouse (still considered "pinky" by Petco and had no fur) and a nightcrawler today and could have probably had more.

[Cazador]

Excellent Matt!!! It's as if someone flipped a switch on that snake's appetite. Keep trying to put some weight on it.

Rick

[abcat1993]

Or, maybe it just feels better eating in it's tank. I mean, it ate so much faster and actually "hunted" the worms. It was kind of funny though when he/she got a piece of bark stuck in his/her mouth.

[adamanteus]

So, where were you feeding him previously, Matt?

[abcat1993]

What do you mean previously? He hadn't eaten for about one month (Feb 7th to March 5th) if that's what you meant.

[adamanteus]

Or, maybe it just feels better eating in it's tank. .

I mean where were you trying to feed him, if not in his tank?

[drache]

I feed my little ones in a place other than their tank.
It's because there's stuff in the tank and I don't feel I can intervene as easily in case of a food fight.
Once they're on pinkies, I feed them in the tank. Still - sometimes Sammy takes food from the other girls, and now that she's on a diet I'll just have to take her out at mealtimes.