Stefan's garters

[infernalis]

Personally never seen that. Sounds way cool though...

[Stefan-A]

So, everybody's eating again. One of my vagrans females had refused food for about 2½-3 months, but yesterday when I fed my other snakes, I gave her the finger-wiggle test and she responded. She ended up eating 2 hoppers and came back for more.

Unfortunately I'm out of mice again.

The big female vagrans continues being fat and constantly hungry and the tetrataenia seems to be getting fatter, too. Will be interesting to see whether she'll have another egg binding. If that happens, it might be prudent to consider having her sterilized.

[Stefan-A]

Another 4 months later - 276g. Mighty suspicious.
Less than 2 weeks later: 285g.

[guidofatherof5]

How about a photo?, please.

[Stefan-A]

g1i4Vbe88LQ

[guidofatherof5]

Stop calling her names:mad::D

[Stefan-A]

Stop calling her names:mad::D
Don't worry, she can't read and what she doesn't know, won't hurt the feelings that she doesn't have. :rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

Don't worry, she can't read and what she doesn't know, won't hurt the feelings that she doesn't have. :rolleyes:

O Ye of Little Faith :D
I've got radixes that talk to me:D

[ConcinusMan]

Through mind control. ^^^

[gregmonsta]

Tubs is looking very cute ;)

[Stefan-A]

Tubs is looking very cute ;)
Why thank you, Greg. :D

[MasSalvaje]

I like the fatty! How are those enclosures working for you? They look nice have you been able to clean up the problems? (If those are the same ones that is.)

-Thomas

[Stefan-A]

The enclosures are working fine. The ventilation could be a little bit better, but it's okay. Not a whole lot of alternatives for heating them, either, but the current system works fine. If I could get my hands on heat panels, I'd give them a try, but they're not available around here.

Haven't bothered to try to get rid of all the other flaws, except the gap between the doors.

[guidofatherof5]

Just watch the video. She looks like she wants to eat.

How did you solve the between the glass problem?

[Stefan-A]

Just watch the video. She looks like she wants to eat.
She does.


How did you solve the between the glass problem?
Like this:


Anyway, I glued a few pieces of 2 mm thick aluminium to the doors. Got the space between the doors down to a little over 3 mm. Should be enough.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/enclosures/space-solution.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

The reason I asked was because in the video it looks like paper towel or something similar between the glass. Just curious.

[Stefan-A]

The reason I asked was because in the video it looks like paper towel or something similar between the glass. Just curious.
Yeah, the paper towel is there just in case she gives birth. Once she stops eating and/or sheds, I'll move her to an enclosure better suited for giving birth.

[kibakiba]

She's such a cute little Chub. Mama's been pigging out and is getting fatter... She acts like she's always starving. She'd probably eat a few fuzzies if I let her...

[EasternGirl]

She is an adorable chubber! I love fat babies, fat puppies, and chubber snakies!

[kibakiba]

My mom thinks fat snakes are funny. I love fat snakes. Something about them is just cute. :D

[EasternGirl]

My son was a chubby baby and toddler..he was so adorable. Chubbie puppies with their chubbie little bellies...and that chubbie snake in the video. If Selena keeps eating everyday like she does...she is going to be a chubber too. Can you overfeed a snake? Should I not feed her everyday? She wants food all the time!

[kibakiba]

You can overfeed them quite easily. If you're feeding pinkies, you should probably only feed her once every couple days with a little bit of worm in between. I think all garter snakes pull a "can't you see I'm withering away at the seams?!" act all the time. Mama ate a fuzzy, something that would normally keep a snake her size full for a week or 2, and 10 minutes later she was looking for more and acting like she'd die without more food ;)

[EasternGirl]

Uh oh....Well, I've only been feeding her pinkies a couple of times a week. But, I have been giving her worms everyday....just about half a worm, cut into little pieces. Could I have hurt her by feeding her too much?

[kibakiba]

I've been told that overfeeding can kill a snake, but my snakes are a bit chubby and seem to be perfectly healthy and active. It'd take a lot of overfeeding to kill a snake. I've also read, though I'm not sure if it's true, overfeeding can eventually shorten the life of the snake. However, I'm sure another member could give you better information, a lot of the stuff I had learned from other sites has been corrected many times on this forum, thanks to all the amazing members ;)

[Stefan-A]

Overfeeding is normally not a problem with growing snakes. It's the adult ones that are at risk. Especially snakes like this one, that doesn't know when to quit eating.

However, that one is fat for a different reason.

[ConcinusMan]

I agree with Stefan. you can't really overfeed young growing snakes. More food only makes them grow faster, rather than get overweight.

[EasternGirl]

Good to know...for a minute there I thought I might be slowly killing my snake!

[ConcinusMan]

Nah, it's not like that. You're not feeding her goldfish. Your snake is still young. Warmth + lots of food = fast growth. Once they get to be big adults, then you gotta go easy on the food. Especially fatty food.

[EasternGirl]

Thanks!

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, the paper towel is there just in case she gives birth. Once she stops eating and/or sheds, I'll move her to an enclosure better suited for giving birth.
Going into shed, moved her to a "birthing enclosure". Need to check my notes from last year, might tell me how long it was between shedding and giving birth.

Edit: Notes weren't useful. Last year it was more than a month between them.

[Stefan-A]

Less than 2 weeks later: 285g.
Another two weeks (and one shed) later: 287g.

[guidofatherof5]

I didn't look back in the thread but do you have any history from her last birthing that you can compare these numbers to?

[Stefan-A]

I didn't look back in the thread but do you have any history from her last birthing that you can compare these numbers to?
http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes10/preggostats-mar14-2010.jpg

This is from last year's pregnancy. If she followed the same schedule, she'd be giving birth pretty much right now.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks.
Best of luck with her and possible offspring.

[Stefan-A]

Thanks. I'm still hoping for slugs, though. I'm not so keen on trying to find homes for 15-20 babies.

[gregmonsta]

She's becoming a big girl ;) ... I could try to get my teleporter to work (just need to find the right combination of mobile phone and microwave) ...

[guidofatherof5]

She's becoming a big girl ;) ... I could try to get my teleporter to work (just need to find the right combination of mobile phone and microwave) ...


Don't forget to adjust the frammus spring and muffler bearings:D

[gregmonsta]

Don't forget to adjust the frammus spring and muffler bearings:D

:rolleyes: I hadn't considered that. I will look into adjusting the parameters presently.

[Stefan-A]

She's becoming a big girl ;) ... I could try to get my teleporter to work (just need to find the right combination of mobile phone and microwave) ...
Boats and planes work, too. ;) Hell, you could even drive all the way here.

[gregmonsta]

That would be one Hell of a roadtrip!!! :rolleyes: I don't know how your fixed with money/travel but if you do get stuck with offspring I vote for organising a snake party in Germany/Holland.

[Stefan-A]

Not so keen on travelling, either. And my passport expired a long time ago.

[gregmonsta]

:rolleyes: there must be a possible chain that can be created to get your snakes to the right people in Europe.
Failing that .... I can borrow a spade and start the Finnish/Scottish link.
In any case .... beware ... I travel .... If I ever play Finland with my band you shall be invaded.

[Stefan-A]

:rolleyes: there must be a possible chain that can be created to get your snakes to the right people in Europe.
Failing that .... I can borrow a spade and start the Finnish/Scottish link.
In any case .... beware ... I travel .... If I ever play Finland with my band you shall be invaded.
Tuska Open Air Metal Festival - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuska_Open_Air_Metal_Festival) ;)

[ConcinusMan]

:rolleyes: there must be a possible chain that can be created to get your snakes to the right people in Europe.
Failing that .... I can borrow a spade and start the Finnish/Scottish link.
In any case .... beware ... I travel .... If I ever play Finland with my band you shall be invaded.

That is indeed the only way they get to Europe in the first place. Usually wholesale and WC though. It does take cooperation, organization, and pooling of resources to get it done.

[gregmonsta]

Tuska Open Air Metal Festival - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuska_Open_Air_Metal_Festival) ;)

I'll get my singer fishing for contacts ;)

[Stefan-A]

Or, it could serve as a good excuse to visit this backwater of a country. ;)

[Stefan-A]

Just bought 100 10-19g mice for 85€, freight included. Had I bought the same number of 5.5g mice from the local store, it would have cost me 260€.

[ConcinusMan]

Awesome. Lately I've been getting a better deal though. 2 people that raise their own feeder mice have been flat out giving me pinkies lately. Their breeders are far more productive than what is needed to feed their own snakes.:D

Just one more good thing to come from craigslist.

[Stefan-A]

Nice.

I had placed an ad a few weeks ago, saying that I wanted to buy pretty much any type of feeder animal. Well, a couple of weeks ago a person from my home town contacted me and asked if I was willing to make a joint order and share the shipping costs. So I agreed and we ended up ordering from a guy pretty much on the other side of the country, about 700-800km away and I got my part of the order today.

So, unless any of my females starts fasting, these rodents should last about 6 months. In retrospect, I should have ordered food for my males, as well. :rolleyes:

[gregmonsta]

Nice.

I had placed an ad a few weeks ago, saying that I wanted to buy pretty much any type of feeder animal. Well, a couple of weeks ago a person from my home town contacted me and asked if I was willing to make a joint order and share the shipping costs. So I agreed and we ended up ordering from a guy pretty much on the other side of the country, about 700-800km away and I got my part of the order today.

So, unless any of my females starts fasting, these rodents should last about 6 months. In retrospect, I should have ordered food for my males, as well. :rolleyes:

;) At least you got that covered and you have a better option from now on. I was glad to find a reputable source that allowed me to cut out the middle-men.
I'm still working out what I'll need to streamline my orders. Thanks to my garters fluffs and pinks dissapear fast. My medium and adult mice however (for the Everglades rat snakes) are set to last about 10 months. By my calculations I need to triple or quadruple my order on 'small thingies' once I run out of 'biggies' and I'll be there more or less :D (of course fish shopping is a lot easier).

[Stefan-A]

I'm not sure this will work from now on, unless I soon find someone else in this area that's also in need of rodents. They're shipped by bus, so once the outdoor temperatures start rising, I'll have to start looking for local sources again. I also got the impression that this guy we ordered from might not get them on a regular basis.

I suppose I should ask my vet if they actually have started selling "high-quality affordable" rodents, like he said they probably would.

I've had a bit of trouble getting my favourite fish, lately, but that's supposedly a seasonal thing. In the winter, the vendace they catch are usually these big 20cm/20gram adults, but in a few months, I should be getting my hands on the really small ones again. The small ones are pretty much ideal for the N. mauras and the my males. Not a fan of the extra work of having to chop up their food for them. ;)

[Stefan-A]

Another two weeks (and one shed) later: 287g.
Another 4 days later: 302g. She sure is full of surprises.

[guidofatherof5]

Was there a feed time in those 4 days?

[Stefan-A]

Was there a feed time in those 4 days?
Yes, gave her a fish immediately after I weighed her last time. Judging by the amount of fecal matter in her enclosure, I'd say she's passed most of it. Doesn't usually take more than two days to do that, anyway.

[guidofatherof5]

Was there a feed time in those 4 days?


Yes, gave her a fish immediately after I weighed her last time. Judging by the amount of fecal matter in her enclosure, I'd say she's passed most of it. Doesn't usually take more than two days to do that, anyway.


I would say that was an impressive weight gain.

[gregmonsta]

She's on a mission ;)

[Stefan-A]

I spoke too soon, she just expelled a bit more crap, although not a lot.

[Stefan-A]

She's on a mission ;)
Not sure if this counts as a mission anymore. Seems more like a campaign, to me. ;)

[gregmonsta]

Not sure if this counts as a mission anymore. Seems more like a campaign, to me. ;)

At least it's a non-violent effort :D

[guidofatherof5]

At least it's a non-violent effort :D

Unless your a fish, mouse or worm.:D

[Stefan-A]

At least it's a non-violent effort :D
For now. Even Operation Overlord was non-violent for a few minutes. :D

[Stefan-A]

The poss. gravid female's weight. The first weight is just a guess, but shouldn't be off by more than a gram or so.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/bigfem-growthrate-weight1.jpg

[Stefan-A]

Lengths, same snake.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/bigfem-growthrate-length1.jpg

[gregmonsta]

She's determined to out-do herself ;)

[Stefan-A]

Indeed. As if she has a choice. :D Still a long way to go to 400g, though. ;)

[Stefan-A]

Another 4 days later: 302g. She sure is full of surprises.
One week later: 301g.

[gregmonsta]

Reached the plateau then :rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

Indeed. Probably. Maybe.

I suspect the N. maura female has something brewing, as well.

[guidofatherof5]

Indeed. Probably. Maybe.

With answers like that you could be a politician. No offense.:D

[ConcinusMan]

Highly insulting! What a terrible thing to say to Stefan.:p

[Stefan-A]

With answers like that you could be a politician. No offense.:D
None taken. :rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

A couple of observations:

The female seems to be keeping her body temperature very high. If I had to guess, it's 35C or higher.

She digested a 15 gram mouse in just under 36 hours.

[ConcinusMan]

If it were my snake and I knew she was gravid I wouldn't let her go that high.

[Stefan-A]

If it were my snake and I knew she was gravid I wouldn't let her go that high.
Her body, her choice. :rolleyes:

She has every opportunity to thermoregulate and she does take advantage of it.

[Stefan-A]

The viperine snake might have eggs on the way again.

[gregmonsta]

The little booger. Would you have better luck shifting viperines in your neck of the woods? :rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

The little booger. Would you have better luck shifting viperines in your neck of the woods? :rolleyes:
I'd say so. I know at least one person who's intersted.

The female has been restless all day. I just hope she accepts the box I provided and doesn't decide to lay them in the water bowl or something. I can't see her from where I'm sitting right now, but I can hear her constantly slither around on the newspaper substrate. :D

[gregmonsta]

Fingers crossed for a healthy batch it is then ;)

[zooplan]

Maybe she´s only reading some interesting articles?:D

[Stefan-A]

Maybe she´s only reading some interesting articles?:D
Impossible, it's a local newspaper. :D The front page story was probably about some old lady's cat having kittens.

[Stefan-A]

The female has been restless all day.
She was also not interested in eating.

[guidofatherof5]

All signs towards a possible delivery!;)

[Stefan-A]

All signs towards a possible delivery!;)
Precisely.

Unfortunate timing, though. My snakes are split over two locations and I won't be able to see to the ones I have here for a few days, after tomorrow.

[guidofatherof5]

Precisely.

Unfortunate timing, though. My snakes are split over two locations and I won't be able to see to the ones I have here for a few days, after tomorrow.

Hoping all goes well. Keep us posted.

[Stefan-A]

One week later: 301g.
Today, 303g.

No changes in her feeding response. Just downed a 10-15g mouse in about a minute, flat.

[guidofatherof5]

Definitely slowing down and topping out.;)

[Stefan-A]

So it seems. I'd like to say "any day now", but with my luck, it'll be next weekend when I'm not here.

Also, post #1337 in this thread.

[guidofatherof5]

Also, post #1337 in this thread.

Very nice;)

[Stefan-A]

The female has been restless all day. I just hope she accepts the box I provided and doesn't decide to lay them in the water bowl or something. I can't see her from where I'm sitting right now, but I can hear her constantly slither around on the newspaper substrate. :D
On that note:

RuBn847qQ_Q

[gregmonsta]

Fingers crossed her quest will be fulfilled ;). Have you witnessed her checking the lay-box out yet?

[Stefan-A]

Fingers crossed her quest will be fulfilled ;). Have you witnessed her checking the lay-box out yet?
She's seen it, it's been in there for a couple of weeks.

[gregmonsta]

She's seen it, it's been in there for a couple of weeks.

I know she has eyes :p ... has she been inside checking it out is my query :rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

I know she has eyes :p ... has she been inside checking it out is my query :rolleyes:
The answer is: Not while I've been watching. She's been commuting between the heat pad and the cool end of the enclosure. The male, on the other hand, figured out how to enjoy the box. He's buried himself in it.

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, my vagrans still has her fat *** planted on top the heat pad. Has barely moved since I fed her yesterday.

[gregmonsta]

I thought I spotted a cheeky face in there in the video ;) .... maybe he'll tell her what to do.

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, I zoomed in on him inside the box at 0:15. There's more of him at 1:56.

[ConcinusMan]

I still think that there is a great risk of "cooking" the babies in a situation like this. You say "her body her choice" but it's a snake we're talking about. They don't always make the best choices. Personally I wouldn't provide a hot spot higher than 90 degrees F, and I wouldn't do it using bottom heat.

[Stefan-A]

I still think that there is a great risk of "cooking" the babies in a situation like this. You say "her body her choice" but it's a snake we're talking about. They don't always make the best choices. Personally I wouldn't provide a hot spot higher than 90 degrees F, and I wouldn't do it using bottom heat.
They do this quite literally for a living. They know a hell of a lot more about what's the right temperature, than we do. Even assuming that this particular female doesn't know what she's doing, why would I want to help her pass those genes on? I'm not going to be like all those [expletive deleted], who bend over backwards to make sure animals that are completely unfit to breed, do so. I don't pip eggs either.

[Stefan-A]

Today, 303g.

No changes in her feeding response. Just downed a 10-15g mouse in about a minute, flat.
Today, 305g. Will be feeding her in an hour or so.

The female N. maura seems to be going into shed again, as well. So maybe eggs after that.

[guidofatherof5]

Best of luck. Hoping for the best.;)

[Stefan-A]

Well of course I forgot my scales at my second address, so no update on the possibly gravid female's weight this week.

She did however do something completely against her character: She refused food.

[gregmonsta]

:rolleyes: Be careful .... if she's like mine she'll want a bite. Although it seems your girl likes to follow a normal pattern.

[Stefan-A]

Waved the mouse in her face. She ran away.

[guidofatherof5]

Waved the mouse in her face. She ran away.

Is that unusual for her?

[Stefan-A]

Is that unusual for her?
Extremely. This snake's feeding response is normally triggered by everything.

[Stefan-A]

Still nothing new, starting to think it's a false alarm. Forgot my scales again. Offered her a mouse, she bit it once and ran away.

Noticed that the timer is turning off the lights in her enclosure roughly a minute earlier every day. It was 22:15 last Thursday, 22:09 today. And yes, we don't use the AM/PM system here.

[gregmonsta]

Mmmm ... bad timer? .... Or does it go on one minute earlier every day too? :rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

Mmmm ... bad timer? .... Or does it go on one minute earlier every day too? :rolleyes:
It does go on one minute earlier, too.

[gregmonsta]

The joys of technology ... well, at least you know it's still creating the same photoperiod and that you will have to become nocturnal to adjust to the shifting cycle eventually :D

[Stefan-A]

I'm already nocturnal. I get more sleep between noon and midnight, than between midnight and noon.

[ConcinusMan]

And yes, we don't use the AM/PM system here.

To be quite honest, neither do I. The only reason I am forced to use am/pm or non-metric measurements (and the idiotic Fahrenheit scale) is because of the rest of the idiots in this country :rolleyes: I always set my digital clocks and watch to 24 hour display and I even have an analog clock that is 24 hour.

I was raised on 12 hour but once I got used to 24 hour I never went back. It's stupid. I wish they would do away with daylight savings time too.

[kibakiba]

I would use the metric stuff and the non am/pm but since I have a hard time learning and calculating things, I can't really... And my school didn't bother teaching me until the year I dropped out. My boyfriend lives in Canada and uses the metric system and Celsius, so I can usually, at least, guess what it is. It really helps that we both just assume what one of us means when we're talking about any sort of math, cause neither of us remember how to convert it. Other than google, of course.
And thanks for calling me and idiot, Richard. ;) I'm just one because no one bothered to teach me any different. (I'm not upset... it's a joke)

[Stefan-A]

The female N. maura seems to be going into shed again, as well. So maybe eggs after that.
Yeah.

YouTube - Eggciting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ2oSlDtYZw)

[gregmonsta]

Congrats :D

[Stefan-A]

Why thank you. :D

[ConcinusMan]

Awesome. This is more than she put out last year. I have to wonder if there's anything that can be done to improve the fertile to infertile ratio.

[Stefan-A]

I have to wonder if there's anything that can be done to improve the fertile to infertile ratio.
Yes. Bigger female. Well, that might help.

[Stefan-A]

Slugs would be a nice surprise.
Slugs were a nice surprise.

By the way, in case somebody didn't already know, clicking this icon in a quoted post will get you to the original post: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/images/green/buttons/viewpost.gif

[gregmonsta]

Congrats on the slugs ;)

[Stefan-A]

As much as I like babies, it's still a relief to not have to deal with any this year. Apart from the viperines.

[gregmonsta]

One headache you don't have to worry about any more ;). How many lettuce eaters did you get?

[Stefan-A]

One headache you don't have to worry about any more ;). How many lettuce eaters did you get?
If I understood that correctly, an unspecified number. :D 40 grams worth.

[Stefan-A]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/muikku-fail..jpg

Bought food for the snakes. 1569 grams for €7.69. Should last at least half a year. Mostly vendace (Coregonus albula), but I found a dozen or so smelts (Osmerus eperlanus) among them.

ps. funny spelling errors on the label, but you'd need to know both Swedish and Finnish to notice them.

[ConcinusMan]

Dang that's cheap. The only thing even close to that and still "safe" around here are the pet store silversides.(Hypomesus olidus) $10 for 8oz ! (227 grams) :mad:

[Stefan-A]

Maybe I need to start exporting these. ;)

[MasSalvaje]

Stefan how do you serve those? Are they small enough to give them whole? Are they around 5"?

-Thomas

[Stefan-A]

Stefan how do you serve those? Are they small enough to give them whole? Are they around 5"?

-Thomas
The average size is about 10cm, or 4", but they vary from about 7 to 15 cm. I give them whole. The biggest go to the female garters, the medium ones to the males and the smallest to the viperines.

You can only get the smallest ones this time of year. Later in the year it seems like the smallest ones they sell are well above 15 cm and then you have to start chopping.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/vendacemouse.jpg

The mouse is maybe 15 grams.

[mb90078]

ps. funny spelling errors on the label, but you'd need to know both Swedish and Finnish to notice them.

So you know Swedish, Finnish, AND you manage to write (type) English better than just about all of the Americans (or for that matter Brits and Canadians) on this board!!

I'm with Conc man, it would be great to get something like that for the price you did.

[ConcinusMan]

I did manage to find a pound of tilapia fillets today, frozen and vacuum sealed in individual "servings", for under $5.:)

[Stefan-A]

So you know Swedish, Finnish, AND you manage to write (type) English better than just about all of the Americans (or for that matter Brits and Canadians) on this board!!
Yes. :D


I'm with Conc man, it would be great to get something like that for the price you did.
I take it that fish doesn't play a huge role in the local cuisine? ;)

[ConcinusMan]

Yes. :D


I take it that fish doesn't play a huge role in the local cuisine? ;)

If it did, we'd all be mad as a hatter. Oh wait...

On second thought, maybe it does.

I am told that this dog ate nothing but local fish for months... look what happened to him.

qRVcUcoDVGA

Mercury poisoning... tragic, yet fun to watch.

So that's where techno dancing came from:p

[Stefan-A]

If it did, we'd all be mad as a hatter. Oh wait...

On second thought, maybe it does. So that's where techno dancing came from:p
Yeah, you're the #1 consumer of tuna, more specifically canned tuna. That alone makes you seem insane. :D

I'm from Finland, techno doesn't exist here. We have tango and metal. Techno is found in Germany, the Netherlands and the UK.

[Stefan-A]

Individually frozen. Won't start feeding them to anything for at least a month, because some if not all of them do carry some form of parasites.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/muikku-indivfroze..jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, you're the #1 consumer of tuna, more specifically canned tuna.

If you only knew how much of that tuna gets put into sandwiches that end up expiring and getting thrown away.(vending machines and convenience stores) We waste tons of food here. Personally, I know a woman that buys cases of tuna but doesn't eat it. She gives it to her cats. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if less than half the tuna imported actually gets consumed by people.

[Stefan-A]

I can imagine.

[infernalis]

So you know Swedish, Finnish, AND you manage to write (type) English better than just about all of the Americans (or for that matter Brits and Canadians) on this board!! .

You missed Latin and German ;)

[Stefan-A]

It's actually annoying. I keep going back to posts I've made a minute earlier just to make sure I replied in the right language.

Or maybe that just has something to do with the fact that I'm damned absent-minded.

[Mommy2many]

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if less than half the tuna imported actually gets consumed by people.

My cats won't eat it.:eek:

[infernalis]

It's actually annoying. I keep going back to posts I've made a minute earlier just to make sure I replied in the right language.

Or maybe that just has something to do with the fact that I'm damned absent-minded.


This conversation has me wondering something Stefan.

Have you ever found yourself thinking in languages other than Finnish, not intentionally but without trying?

When I went to Brasil, I had to learn Portuguese quickly, and I found the easiest way was to think in Portuguese, after all the thought process is nothing more than talking silently to ones self.

[Stefan-A]

This conversation has me wondering something Stefan.

Have you ever found yourself thinking in languages other than Finnish, not intentionally but without trying?

Finnish is actually me second language, but I understand what you're asking and the answer is yes, frequently. Close to 99% of everything I write is in English and there are a lot of concepts I use on pretty much a daily basis, that I couldn't easily translate to my first language.

[Stefan-A]

Haven't posted any photos in a good while, so I took some of my bigger vagrans. She just came out of the blue phase and I expect her to shed in the next 1-3 days.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/big-vagrans-inshed01.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/big-vagrans-inshed02.jpg

It doesn't get more random than this, I just took these a few minutes ago on a whim, after having misted her (temporary) enclosure.

[guidofatherof5]

She doesn't look at all happy.
Of course we require a new and improved look once she sheds, please.;)

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, she had a plastic plant on top of her and I had to remove it to get the picture. She's completely harmless, though. Looking unhappy is as far as she'll go. :D

[infernalis]

Yeah, she had a plastic plant on top of her and I had to remove it to get the picture. She's completely harmless, though. Looking unhappy is as far as she'll go. :D

Still, I love that scowling look. She's a beauty Stefan.

[gregmonsta]

It has a certain cuteness to it :D

[Mommy2many]

Stefan, that looks like one pissed off little girl...
Good luck with that!

[Stefan-A]

I want to point out that these wandering garters have very wide heads, at least compared to the T. sirtalis I've had. I don't think she's actually flattening it.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/big-vagrans-inshed03.jpg

[Jeff B]

Nice looking snake, I'm sure she looks more badass than she is, I have one like that, looks like she wants to bite but she never would.

[kibakiba]

She does look kind of pissy, but also very cute.

[MasSalvaje]

I want to point out that these wandering garters have very wide heads, at least compared to the T. sirtalis I've had. I don't think she's actually flattening it.

I agree that the vagrans have distinct heads to others. They are much broader and squarish (if that makes sense), they look like battering rams you would use while laying siege to a castle.

Very good looking! Do you know her weight?

-Thomas

[brain]

If you only knew how much of that tuna gets put into sandwiches that end up expiring and getting thrown away.(vending machines and convenience stores) We waste tons of food here. Personally, I know a woman that buys cases of tuna but doesn't eat it. She gives it to her cats. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if less than half the tuna imported actually gets consumed by people.

Me and all four of my cats eat canned tuna. I get about 12 cans and that lasts about 2 1/2 weeks.

While I was stationed in Japan in the 80's at least twice a week on my way home from work I would stop at the local fish market and get about 200 gm of Mahi-mahi and the cat and I would share this on the back porch.
Now I'm payin $2.00-$3.00 for Platties and mollies for my snakes treat. Something wrong here.

[Stefan-A]

Very good looking! Do you know her weight?

-Thomas
265 grams a couple of weeks ago, immediately after throwing slugs.

[Stefan-A]

Just got bit by the female viperine. Officially bite #3, coming from the snake that's least likely to bite. :D

She had accidentally grabbed the head of the male trying to steal food from him and I jumped in trying to get her to let go. Grabbed her by the neck (pretty far down) to restrain her a little, the male bent himself free and she, trying to keep her grip, accdentally latched onto my finger.

So what do we relearn from this? Solo housing makes things much simpler.

[guidofatherof5]

So, is solo housing on the horizon or has it taken place already?
A bite photo would be nice:D

[Stefan-A]

There's nothing to take photos of, it didn't even break the skin, I think. Doesn't even itch. In fact, I'm not even sure which finger it bit (no joke).

Solo housing is on the horizon, but this wasn't a big influence on that decision. The size difference is starting to get significant and the male isn't leaving the female alone. Fortunately, I have that aquarium I salvaged last summer, I just need to make a nice, tight lid for it.

[Stefan-A]

Of course we require a new and improved look once she sheds, please.;)
http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/big-vagrans-postshed01.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/big-vagrans-postshed02.jpg

[drache]

fresh clean polished and handsome

[ConcinusMan]

That snake been working out? Pumping some iron? it's face is all shiny.;)

[guidofatherof5]

Awesome snake and photo. Thanks for the update.;)

[charles parenteau]

Amazing garter snake picture awesome !!Love vagrans!

[Stefan-A]

fresh clean polished and handsome
Indeed she is. :)

Awesome snake and photo. Thanks for the update.;)
You asked for it. :D


Amazing garter snake picture awesome !!Love vagrans!
Thank you. :)

[Mommy2many]

She is very pretty, Stefan.

[Stefan-A]

She is very pretty, Stefan.
Thanks. :)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Sweet!

[infernalis]

Superb photography as always Stefan.

[Stefan-A]

Superb photography as always Stefan.
I don't know about that, I just set the camera to "untrained monkey" and after that, it was just "point and shoot".

[infernalis]

Those are some good looking pics nonetheless.

[ConcinusMan]

I don't know about that, I just set the camera to "untrained monkey" and after that, it was just "point and shoot".

:mad: If only it were that simple. If I were to do that, my pics would look like they were taken by (and crapped on) an untrained monkey.:rolleyes:

[Mommy2many]

I don't know about that, I just set the camera to "untrained monkey" and after that, it was just "point and shoot".


That setting was put there for me:D

[ConcinusMan]

:mad: If only it were that simple. If I were to do that, my pics would look like they were taken by (and crapped on) an untrained monkey.:rolleyes:

At least if prepare and manipulate the settings correctly for the conditions, my pics look like they were taken by a well trained monkey.;)

[infernalis]

At least if prepare and manipulate the settings correctly for the conditions, my pics look like they were taken by a well trained monkey.;)

follwed by the comments of..oh nevermind :p

[ConcinusMan]

:D

[Stefan-A]

Haven't posted any pictures of this one in a while.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/tetrataenia-04-01.jpg

Expecting a pile of slugs and trying to avoid the problem she had last year.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Showoff, she is sweet!!!

[ConcinusMan]

Jeezus!

[guidofatherof5]

She's beautiful.;)

[infernalis]

envious... must be nice.

[andycul]

WOW just WOW :D

[RicMartin]

Holy red & blue smoke!

[gregmonsta]

Aye, they are stunning beasts :D

[Stefan-A]

Why, thank you.

[Stefan-A]

Yeah.

YouTube - Eggciting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ2oSlDtYZw)
Yeah. Eggs are starting to look ready to hatch. If they took exactly as long to incubate as they did last year (38 days), they'd hatch tomorrow. However, I've lowered the incubation temperature by about 2 degrees this year.

[reptileparadise]

Congrats Stefan!
What a small clutch that is! May I ask how old the female is?

38 days is quite short.... Mine hatched at 60 days at roomtemperature (between 25 during the day and 18 at night)

[guidofatherof5]

Hope your around during the hatching.

[Stefan-A]

Congrats Stefan!
What a small clutch that is! May I ask how old the female is?

38 days is quite short.... Mine hatched at 60 days at roomtemperature (between 25 during the day and 18 at night)
The female is young, an '08. 38 days is short, but I was keeping a constant, high temperature of about 30 degrees.

[Mommy2many]

I believe I speak for those of us over here, Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. And we are all very envious of you, Stefan!

[MasSalvaje]

Yeah. Eggs are starting to look ready to hatch. If they took exactly as long to incubate as they did last year (38 days), they'd hatch tomorrow. However, I've lowered the incubation temperature by about 2 degrees this year.

It will be interesting to see the difference that 2 degrees will make. Can't wait to see the babies!

-Thomas

[Stefan-A]

Yeah. Eggs are starting to look ready to hatch. If they took exactly as long to incubate as they did last year (38 days), they'd hatch tomorrow. However, I've lowered the incubation temperature by about 2 degrees this year.
44 days. Two are out of the eggs and the third is occasionally poking its head out.

[guidofatherof5]

Very cool. Congrats.

[Stefan-A]

Thanks.

[ConcinusMan]

Pics!

[infernalis]

Good news.. waiting to see the pics myself.

[drache]

congrats, Stefan
looking forward to visuals

[sirtalis01]

I envy u so much lol....

[Stefan-A]

Unbelievable. I'm right now in the middle of my weekly cage cleaning, I just opened the female viperine's humid hide to check on her and what do I find? 7 eggs. 6 good ones and one obviously bad one. She was holding back on me.

[ConcinusMan]

Holy oblong ova Batman!:eek:

[Stefan-A]

Picture time.

This morning's surprise:
(Note the female in the top left corner.)

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/v1-eggs.jpg




The ones that hatched yesterday:


Baby #1.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/v2-baby1.jpg



Baby # 2.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/v2-baby2.jpg



Baby #3, the one that took its sweet time coming out.
Another fun surprise. Can anyone tell why? ;)

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/v2-baby3-01.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/v2-baby3-02.jpg

[ConcinusMan]

Oh wow. They're awesome. Baby #3 has rather distinct stripes, and some color below the lateral row of spots. Neeto.

[kibakiba]

Awwww!!!! I want one of those. They have such cute little faces! :D

[guidofatherof5]

Great looking babies.

[Stefan-A]

Thank you.

[ConcinusMan]

Do I understand correctly? She double clutched?

[Stefan-A]

Do I understand correctly? She double clutched?
Correct. 40-45 days between the clutches.

[ConcinusMan]

Which just so happened to match up well with the incubation time.

[Stefan-A]

Almost perfectly.

[drache]

lovely surprise - congrats Stefan
they look great
looking forward to see how that colour on #3 will grow up

[ConcinusMan]

Now what are you going to do with all those snakes?

[Stefan-A]

Jambalaya.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh jeez, sorry I asked.

[Stefan-A]

I forgive you.

[BUSHSNAKE]

those are really cool!

[Stefan-A]

The adult male.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/maura_male01.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/maura_male02.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/maura_male03.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful snake.

[RicMartin]

Congratulations!

[Stefan-A]

About 4 months later:

T. e. vagrans big female - 211g / 83cm
T. e. vagrans small female - 183g / 78cm
T. e. vagrans male - 78g / 73cm (lost 12 g since March)

T. sirtalis tetrataenia - 144g / 86cm

Natrix maura male - 31g / 45cm
Natrix maura female - 51g / 52cm
About 8 months after that:

T. e. vagrans big female - 87cm
T. e. vagrans small female - 84cm
T. e. vagrans older male - 76cm
T. e. vagrans younger male - 71cm (12 months ago 59cm)

Natrix maura male - 48cm
Natrix maura female - 62cm

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like the fertilizer is working well:D

[Stefan-A]

Indeed. Especially those male vagrans are getting pretty impressive in length. My male parietalis, that I used to have, never got above 65cm.

The size difference between the female vagrans is pretty funny, too. That 3 cm difference is pretty insignificant, yet the shorter one looks significantly smaller than her big sister.

[Stefan-A]

And like clockwork, 4/6 garters have gone off feed. :rolleyes:
They're over a month early this year. 4 of 7 snakes (ignoring babies).

[Stefan-A]

The poss. gravid female's weight. The first weight is just a guess, but shouldn't be off by more than a gram or so.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/bigfem-growthrate-weight1.jpg
http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/bigfem-growthrate-weight2.jpg

[Stefan-A]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/bigfem-growthrate-weight3.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

She just keeps on growing.

[Stefan-A]

If she could talk, I'd ask her what the hell she's up to. She's not just growing, she's accelerating.

[guidofatherof5]

Must be that good Finland water and good living.;)

[Stefan-A]

Better cut down on the good living, then.

[RedSidedSPR]

What's wrong with a frickin' huge garter?

[Stefan-A]

What's wrong with a frickin' huge garter?
If she's getting fat, it's unhealthy. If she's producing slugs again, it's disconcerting. If she's gravid, it's time to plug gaps. If she's retaining fluid, it could be a sign that something is medically wrong.

[RedSidedSPR]

Ah...

[guidofatherof5]

A lot of variables there.
Keep us posted.

[Stefan-A]

Got nagged into posting these.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/natrix-maura-2011-06-14/natrix-maura-2011-06-14-01.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/natrix-maura-2011-06-14/natrix-maura-2011-06-14-02.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/natrix-maura-2011-06-14/natrix-maura-2011-06-14-03.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/natrix-maura-2011-06-14/natrix-maura-2011-06-14-04.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/natrix-maura-2011-06-14/natrix-maura-2011-06-15-06.jpg

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/natrix-maura-2011-06-14/natrix-maura-2011-06-15-07.jpg

[Stefan-A]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/viperines/natrix-maura-2011-06-14/natrix-maura-2011-06-14-05.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

Those are awesome!! um.... what are they?

And what's the last pic?

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful snakes.
Very nice series of photos.

To the person that nagged Stefan into posting those pictures, I applaud you:D

[drache]

Beautiful snakes.
Very nice series of photos.

To the person that nagged Stefan into posting those pictures, I applaud you:D
agreed with all

[snakehill]

What kind of snake?:confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

Wanderings. Most of them (or all i dunno)

[snakehill]

The last one (hatching):confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh.,.. i have no idea :D

[snakehill]

Well Stefan is online but I guess he's ignoring us! :rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

He's not ONLINE. He's LOGGED ON. He's away from the computer. Just has it open. I do that sometimes. If you see that i'm online, don't always assume i'm at the computer.

[snakehill]

OKAY! Sorry!:p

[Stefan-A]

Viperine snake (Natrix maura).

[snakehill]

Thank you Stefan!!!:D

[Stefan-A]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/bigfem-growthrate-weight4.jpg

Another growth chart.

[Stefan-A]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/vagrans-july-01.jpg

[jitami]

I don't think she's crazy about you posting her weights for all to see ;) Lovely animal, Stefan.

[Stefan-A]

I don't think she's crazy about you posting her weights for all to see ;) Lovely animal, Stefan.
Don't worry, fatty can't read, or use a computer.

Other snake in the picture. '08 male.

[snakehill]

Other snake? Did I miss something?:confused:

[jitami]

Other snake in the picture. '08 male.

:o I debated that head shape, but figured the fatty weights went with the pic. Sorry my good sir :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Viperine snake (Natrix maura).

I KNEW IT I KNEW IT I KNEW IT!!!!!

WHY didn't i say that. I knew that was it, but it wasn't sure, so i kept my mouth shut:D:rolleyes:

[Stefan-A]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/snakes2011/vagrans-july-02.jpg

'09 male.