The snakes are out!!!!

[anji1971]

Well, the mercury hit 13C today, and we went for a nice walk in one of the city's conservation areas. One which I haven't been to since I was a kid, and boy- oh- boy........ it was garter heaven!!!!!
We must have found twenty or so garters of various sizes around the pond, and the kids even got to witness a pair mating. Very cool!:cool:
BUT..........that's not the best part.
We have a new snakie!!!!:):)
I believe it is a ribbon snake, but I won't bet my life on it. I'll post pics as soon as the kids are in bed for the night, and let all you pros tell me what you think (provided my photos are good enough to even tell!!:D)

;)I'll be back soon!

[Snake lover 3-25]

hmmmmm.... i envy you... but at least i saw my first frog of the season today..... must be a sign that the garters are coming

[anji1971]

Okay, here's the new guy!
Took these when we first got home:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/april62008_035.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/april62008_034.jpg

Here he is in his new tank
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/april62008_057.jpg

This is what my 'snake corner' looks like now! Deejay on the left, new snake on the right, Stitch underneath.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/april62008_060.jpg

I'm not sure yet if this new one is actually male or female, I'll post vent pics later on. If I can, I'd like to eventually house it with Deejay in my big tank. We'll see!

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

thats not a ribbon, i think its a red-sided without red, not positive though

[Zephyr]

Or a butlers.
Are those in your area?

[enigma200316]

I was thinking sirtalis, or butlers, but deff. don't think its a ribbon...:)

[anji1971]

Well, we don't have red-sided garters here, so it's not that.
But we do have Butlers, and unfortunately they're protected, so I would rather it not be that!
These pictures don't really show it as clearly as I'd like, but I'll have to let him settle in and get him out in the sunlight to get some better ones.
His colouring is black with gold-ish stripes, and they blend into a beautiful bronze-brown shading on the sides, with a creamy belly.
I thought he might be a ribbon just because his stripes seem closer together and more sharply defined than all the other garters around here. There were only two that I saw today that looked like this one, and the others were definitely Easterns.

[enigma200316]

on the pic I see alittle bit of a checkered pattern at the neck area so I'm gonna lean towards sirtalis sirtalis...........:)

[anji1971]

That's just the way the picture looks. There are no checkers on this one, unless they pop out when I feed it......
I'm really hoping it's just an extra-pretty T. s. sirtalis; either way, I think it's a beauty -- I wish I could show the colouring better here.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

yea most likely sirtalis if you dont have red-sideds where u are

[ssssnakeluvr]

looks like an eastern to me....but need some better pics...nice looking snake tho!!!!! still waiting for my first snake. gonna beat the miserable weatherman!!!!! says rain and snowin the forecast.......:mad:

[Tori]

It is definately not a Butler, Butlers don't have "necks". Small heads the same size as their bodies.

[enigma200316]

suppose to be 60's all week here so I plan on finding something...:D

[zooplan]

I´m late, but all the given facts are leading to ´sirtalis.
Maybe measurements can make it sure.

[adamanteus]

Sounds like you had a great day, Anji! Well done catching the new snake. It looks like T. s. sirtalis to me.

[Sid]

Congratulations on Garters being out in your area:). Great looking snake and I think T. s sirtalis as well.

[Lori P]

Cool, Anji! He's very very pretty. It sounds like you had so much fun out looking!! Next time-- TAKE YOUR CAMERA!!! lol

Hey, I really really like that blue on your wall. Very nice color.

[anji1971]

Actually, I did take the camera, but SOMEBODY (who will remain unnamed in this post....:o:rolleyes::o) forgot to bring the batteries for said camera, and was very ticked off when she missed a great shot of a hawk on a tree branch only twenty feet away, as well as many garter snakes!

[anji1971]

Here are a few more pics, these almost show how pretty the browns are in him!
And he handles surprisingly well for a wild caught! No musking, and no panic attacks!
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/newsnake_026.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/newsnake_031.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/newsnake_027.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/newsnake_030.jpg

[adamanteus]

Oh, that is nice!

[Lori P]

Wow. What a great snake all around!! It's like he was made to come home with you!!

Hmmm... he's kind of... chocolate colored.... (licking lips) :eek::D:D

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

does kinda look like a butler...

[Stefan-A]

Based on these latest pictures, I'd like to say Butler's, but it's possible that it's just because I was wrong about the other one.
High stripe, almost no neck, practically no supralabial markings..

Either way, it's a beautiful snake. :)

[Snake lover 3-25]

Wow he looks like he's already used to being handled...:):):):):):)

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

oh ya pretty snake anyways

[anji1971]

Wow. What a great snake all around!! It's like he was made to come home with you!!

Hmmm... he's kind of... chocolate colored.... (licking lips) :eek::D:D

There you go again, Lori..............I worry about you sometimes!
And if you ever come to visit stay away from my chocolate snake!!:D


does kinda look like a butler...


Based on these latest pictures, I'd like to say Butler's, but it's possible that it's just because I was wrong about the other one.
High stripe, almost no neck, practically no supralabial markings..

Either way, it's a beautiful snake. :)

Okay guys, this Butler's thing has been mentioned too many times........I'm not really supposed to keep a Butler's so could we just pretend it's a plain old sirtalis??? Not that anyone would get him away from me now without a fight...:D

[adamanteus]

Anji.... it's a sirtalis!;)

[anji1971]

Oh good! thanks James, now I feel much better!:p

[anji1971]

Oh, by the way,
we have officially named our new snake! When I got home from work tonight, and looked in on him (I have determined it's a him) I found a ten-gallon tank of devastation.:eek:
The water dish was full of aspen, and the remaining aspen, which was partly full of water:rolleyes:, was piled up in the middle of the tank, and the hide I had put in was pushed over almost on it's side! The only things not touched were the rocks (thank goodness!)
I don't know what the hell he was up to all day, but after seeing that, he has been named Twister.
And here I thought he was so calm and gentle............

[Zephyr]

Wow, I think most everyone has their garters out by now. :P
Took another trip to the snake area today, and I think there are two dens in the vicinity. Caught around 20 snakes but didn't keep any. :P
Found only 3-4 females. :O
Also, after picking up a female then setting her down, then finding a male a few feet away, I put them next to each other and came back a few minutes later to find them going at it. XD Pics soon. :P

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

havent seen a single garter yet!!!

but congratulations on twister! he/she is a lovely snake. He realy closely resembles a butler's though but I find easterns that look like that all the time! even with the small head thing goin on :)

[drache]

wow Anji
you got yourself a really nice garter there
congrats

[anji1971]

Thanks for all the nice comments, everyone. I'll keep you all up to date on his progress -- mainly on whether or not I can get the little turkey to eat!!:D

[bulrush]

I'm in Michigan. On sunday my son and I caught 4 14 inch garter snakes. Classic eastern garter coloring (black with 3 yellow stripes.)

[Snake lover 3-25]

i haven't found any yet...:(:(:(:(:(:(

[Tori]

Finally, I saw 3 male Easterns out! All in the same area. Hopefully, the females will be out soon. Western Michigan here.

[Loren]

Okay guys, this Butler's thing has been mentioned too many times........I'm not really supposed to keep a Butler's so could we just pretend it's a plain old sirtalis???


That is a beautiful snake, and I dont know what it is, but remember, its not really what you say it is that matters, but what your local Fish and Game says it is. :D

According to the Peterson Field Guide to Eastern Reptiles and Amphibians- Butlers have a side stripe on half of row 2, all of row 3, and half of row 4. Easterns have a side stripe confined to rows 2 and 3.

[ssssnakeluvr]

havent seen a single garter yet!!!



what, only married ones so far???? :cool::rolleyes:

[anji1971]

That is a beautiful snake, and I dont know what it is, but remember, its not really what you say it is that matters, but what your local Fish and Game says it is. :D

According to the Peterson Field Guide to Eastern Reptiles and Amphibians- Butlers have a side stripe on half of row 2, all of row 3, and half of row 4. Easterns have a side stripe confined to rows 2 and 3.

Thanks for that info, Loren. I ran to check him as soon as I read this, but the little guy is buried deep in the aspen, digesting his latest meal, so I will not disturb him right now. :p

[Lori P]

what, only married ones so far???? :cool::rolleyes:

ROFL!!!!

Jamie and I went for a 2 hour walk waaaaaaay back in the woods behind us yesterday, and never saw a single garter-- for that matter, never saw a single snake. Bummer!!! It was like 86 here... I thought for sure we'd see something. All we got, again, was covered in ticks. :-(

[anji1971]

According to the Peterson Field Guide to Eastern Reptiles and Amphibians- Butlers have a side stripe on half of row 2, all of row 3, and half of row 4. Easterns have a side stripe confined to rows 2 and 3.

I had a close look at his scales, and compared them to Deejay. I am almost 100% sure that I do indeed have a Butler's garter. And I am definitely NOT sure I'm pleased about it, because it means I'm going to have to release him back to his natural habitat.
We have pretty clear government guidelines to endangered species, and I certainly don't want to commit any offense against those acts.
Besides, as someone who would be the first to yell at anyone deliberately taking or damaging the habitat of a threatened species, it would be a bit hypocritical of me to keep one for my own selfish purposes.
So little Twister is going home as soon as I can get him back there. But, I am going to contact the people at our local nature reserve, and let them know that I have found Butler's in the location I did, just in case they aren't aware of them being there. Maybe they can do more to protect that area, so the snakes can be safe and thrive.
Of course, I'm crying my eyes out as I type this, 'cause I really really am going to miss the little guy.:(

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

aww anji you dont have to let him go, hell be safer with you, and i doubt that any1s gunna know that u have a butler or the people who do wont care

I had a close look at his scales, and compared them to Deejay. I am almost 100% sure that I do indeed have a Butler's garter. And I am definitely NOT sure I'm pleased about it, because it means I'm going to have to release him back to his natural habitat.
We have pretty clear government guidelines to endangered species, and I certainly don't want to commit any offense against those acts.
Besides, as someone who would be the first to yell at anyone deliberately taking or damaging the habitat of a threatened species, it would be a bit hypocritical of me to keep one for my own selfish purposes.
So little Twister is going home as soon as I can get him back there. But, I am going to contact the people at our local nature reserve, and let them know that I have found Butler's in the location I did, just in case they aren't aware of them being there. Maybe they can do more to protect that area, so the snakes can be safe and thrive.
Of course, I'm crying my eyes out as I type this, 'cause I really really am going to miss the little guy.:(

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

u could even get another butler (secretly) of the opposite sex and breed them and release the babies into your backyard to help repopulate them

[Loren]

aww anji you dont have to let him go, hell be safer with you, and i doubt that any1s gunna know that u have a butler or the people who do wont care

Yeah, no one will know.
Reed, dont forget, we are on the world wide web. :D:D

[Loren]

Anji, you do what you decide- its your desicion.:)
But there are plenty of other garters out there that arent protected, and would make wonderful captives that dont keep you nervous a little bit in the back of your mind all the time.
And that field guide quote was just one field guide quote, you are free to do further research.
Am I flip flopping enough for you? :D

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

aha..woops :D

Yeah, no one will know.
Reed, dont forget, we are on the world wide web. :D:D

[anji1971]

Anji, you do what you decide- its your desicion.:)
But there are plenty of other garters out there that arent protected, and would make wonderful captives that dont keep you nervous a little bit in the back of your mind all the time.
And that field guide quote was just one field guide quote, you are free to do further research.
Am I flip flopping enough for you? :D

I've checked out at least a dozen websites, and they all have the same info. I'd love to believe that somehow I'm mistaken, and he's not a Butler's, but alas, though I'm not the studious, intellectual sort, I am fairly confident in my counting ability!;)
There were zillions of regular, definitely Eastern garters out there, and I'm sure that once I get over feeling sorry for myself, that one of them will work it's way into my heart as well.........

[enigma200316]

That is a beautiful snake, and I dont know what it is, but remember, its not really what you say it is that matters, but what your local Fish and Game says it is. :D

According to the Peterson Field Guide to Eastern Reptiles and Amphibians- Butlers have a side stripe on half of row 2, all of row 3, and half of row 4. Easterns have a side stripe confined to rows 2 and 3.


thats not totally true tho, because Easterns can also some times have a little on 4 as well...........I 've seen it and since the only Garter I get to see here are Easterns I pay close attention to markings, not to mention
the wide veriety of pattern, and colors...........:)

[anji1971]

Can the Easterns have the stripe on 1/2 of both the second and fourth row, though??
Combined with his small head, lack of noticeable neck and colouring which is identical to every picture of a Butler's I've looked at, it doesn't look too promising.

[enigma200316]

Anji, would u be able to do some more close up pics, maybe outside in some better light, pay attention to head and side of the body then post for another look before u let it go..................:)

[anji1971]

Anji, would u be able to do some more close up pics, maybe outside in some better light, pay attention to head and side of the body then post for another look before u let it go..................:)

I had already planned to do that, Justin!:)
And I don't intend to let him go until I talk to the people at the Nature Center, and see if they can confirm it as well. As far as I recall, the Ojibway Nature Center is the only place right in Windsor known to have a population of Butler's, so if my find can help protect them in a new area, I want to be able to do that.

[enigma200316]

from the pic you have where the snake is around your hand I think its the 2 or 3 pic of the newer ones, where mid body is around your hand which is where you are suppose to count, unless I'm seeing it wrong i'm only seeing the line on rows 2 and 3 which says Eastern, and I think anyway looking at it that it is just a nicely chocolate Eastern, but get them pics and ask those people and keep us updated..........:)

[enigma200316]

Sorry Anji, I now think you deff. have a butlers here is a link to a pic of a butlers that looks identical to yours hope you can get there and see it..:(
www.bgsu.edu/departments/biology/facilities/herp/caresheetpages/butlersgart.html

[anji1971]

Sorry Anji, I now think you deff. have a butlers here is a link to a pic of a butlers that looks identical to yours hope you can get there and see it..:(
www.bgsu.edu/departments/biology/facilities/herp/caresheetpages/butlersgart.html

Thanks, Justin. I did find the link, and noticed the mention about the thrashing motion they make when excited. He does that too, when I startle him.

[enigma200316]

sorry to be the barer of bad news Anji, but I would deff. say its a butlers now, but what you do is your choice...........;);)

[adamanteus]

u could even get another butler (secretly) of the opposite sex and breed them and release the babies into your backyard to help repopulate them


Obviously this would be a very bad idea. Butlers are protected for very good reasons. If every one who loved Garters collected 'just two' the species would be decimated.
If it is indeed a Butlers, at least you know where to go to observe them in the wild.... and you can always take loads of photos before you release it.:)

[Stefan-A]

Obviously this would be a very bad idea. Butlers are protected for very good reasons. If every one who loved Garters collected 'just two' the species would be decimated.
Well, it's not a great idea to collect wild animals to begin with, whether or not they're protected. But it is especially bad when they are.

[Zephyr]

You could get a permit Anji. I'm sure a catch-breed-release deal could be negotiated with the government.

[Stefan-A]

I wouldn't be so sure, governments rarely negotiate with citizens. :D

[anji1971]

Well, I talked to a man at the Nature Center, who seemed quite happy to think that I may have found a Butler's on the other end of town! I'm going to email him some pics, and I also directed him to this forum, so he can look at the ones I've already posted.
If it turns out that his ID is confirmed, then Twister will be returned home on the weekend, and I will pray that measures will be taken to protect the area I found him in, so we can hope to someday see many more of his kind!
I've gotten over the initial disappointment of having to let him go, in fact, I'm kind of hoping I've discovered something great over at that little pond..........:cool:

[anji1971]

You could get a permit Anji. I'm sure a catch-breed-release deal could be negotiated with the government.

I think they tend to reserve permits like that for actual scientists and researchers. My education gives me a "Make-up Artist & Aesthetics" diploma, and one in "Medical Office Administration". Not a likely candidate!:rolleyes::D:rolleyes:

[Zephyr]

Nonsense! If ordinary people can get indigo permits, you can get a permit for a garter!

[anji1971]

It's a remote possibility, but chances are it would cost a fair amount of money to obtain anyway, not to mention what it would cost to set up a place where I could actually breed snakes. If I could afford all that then I wouldn't have to resort to keeping only wild-caught garters in the first place!:p

[Zephyr]

It's a remote possibility, but chances are it would cost a fair amount of money to obtain anyway, not to mention what it would cost to set up a place where I could actually breed snakes. If I could afford all that then I wouldn't have to resort to keeping only wild-caught garters in the first place!:pLike I thought, it may cost around $25, which would the price of a normal garter anyways. XD

[anji1971]

Well, his ID has been confirmed and the Official Consensus is:
"Yup, that's a beautiful Butler's garter." (to quote my friend from Ojibway Nature Center!)
The really cool thing is that nobody knew we had a population of them there! So I am now the "Discoverer of Endangered Snake Species" Whoo-hoo!!:D

[Stefan-A]

The really cool thing is that nobody knew we had a population of them there! So I am now the "Discoverer of Endangered Snake Species" Whoo-hoo!!:D
Maybe they'll discover that it's actually a subspecies and name it after you. ;)

[anji1971]

Maybe they'll discover that it's actually a subspecies and name it after you. ;)

That would be bad. My ego would soar and I'd not be able to be lived with.:D

[enigma200316]

haahahaha, sorry but i told u I knew that you had a butler's from that picture, once again some one that didn't believe me......:rolleyes::p;):D

[anji1971]

haahahaha, sorry but i told u I knew that you had a butler's from that picture, once again some one that didn't believe me......:rolleyes::p;):D

I never said I didn't believe you, Justin. I just didn't want him to be a Butler's because I liked him so much. But I am thrilled with the discovery!

[enigma200316]

I never said I didn't believe you, Justin. I just didn't want him to be a Butler's because I liked him so much. But I am thrilled with the discovery!


i know Anji, i'm just messing with ya and congrats on the find of Anji pond home of butler garters snakes........;)

[adamanteus]

Anji, never tell anyone exactly where these Butlers are!:D

[enigma200316]

Anji, never tell anyone exactly where these Butlers are!:D


good sound advice James I agree.............;)

[anji1971]

Well, I want the right people to find them -- it's important for study. It's the multitude of pre-adolescent boys constantly trooping through the place I don't want to find them.

[adamanteus]

Anji, you are the 'right people'!:)

[anji1971]

Anji, you are the 'right people'!:)

Awwwww, thanks James! That's one of the best compliments I've had in a while!:)

[Zephyr]

Adolescent boys who want to take them home, keep them in a dark room with a hot rock and feed them goldfish. x.x

[adamanteus]

I really mean it. You could watch them, photograph them, count them and chart their progress. Observe their feeding preferences, take note if these preferences are seasonal etc. No one needs to know where you're doing this work. It is people like yourself, who can, through micro-habitat study, advance our understanding of these small populations. Let's just call the location 'Anji's Pond'.

[adamanteus]

Adolescent boys who want to take them home, keep them in a dark room with a hot rock and feed them goldfish. x.x

I think the biggest threat is people who want to collect a couple of dozen and sell them for a quick profit!
Let's all agree now never to buy protected species which we suspect to be illegally wild caught. If we, as THE Thamnophis forum, don't do this, who will?

[anji1971]

I agree, James!
That is exactly why, even though I could have just kept my mouth shut (or my fingers off the keyboard, in this case!) and pretended I'd just found a T.s. sirtalis, I decided to make it known, and return him to where he should be.
I am definitely going to keep looking for them, although I don't know how closely I'll be able to study them, since my little pond is a fair distance from my house. And let me tell you, anybody I see catching snakes there is going to get a good lecture on species identification, and the importance of protecting endangered creatures!

[Stefan-A]

I think the biggest threat is people who want to collect a couple of dozen and sell them for a quick profit!
Let's all agree now never to buy protected species which we suspect to be illegally wild caught. If we, as THE Thamnophis forum, don't do this, who will?
I'm prepared to make that promise. Not that it's very likely to happen, but anyway.

I'm not so sure about who is the biggest threat. Individuals collecting just one snake for their own collection may very well have an impact comparable to those who collect dozens for sale. Depending on the ratio. I know I'm not going to convince anybody not to collect wild garters, but if you do collect them, you better breed them. :D

[count dewclaw]

but if you do collect them, you better breed them. :D

That's what I'm doing, and the vast majority of the offspring will go back into the "wild" aka my yard. We have a fair sized population up by our house and I'm sure we have more back by the barn...

[Lori P]

Anji, what a cool experience for you! I bow to you, finder-of-unique-garters!!!!!

[Sid]

I think the biggest threat is people who want to collect a couple of dozen and sell them for a quick profit!
Let's all agree now never to buy protected species which we suspect to be illegally wild caught. If we, as THE Thamnophis forum, don't do this, who will?
Totally agree, James. You have my pledge.

[Zephyr]

Mine as well! :D

[GarterGirl]

Me too!!!!!

[Snake lover 3-25]

ditto!!!!!!:D

[anji1971]

Anji, what a cool experience for you! I bow to you, finder-of-unique-garters!!!!!

Finder-of-Unique-Garters............oooooh, I like that. Can we make that my title, oh wonderful moderators??

[Snake lover 3-25]

:DLol!!!!!!!!!:D

[adamanteus]

Finder-of-Unique-Garters............oooooh, I like that. Can we make that my title, oh wonderful moderators??

Your wish is my command, Oh Great Garter Finder!:D

[anji1971]

Your wish is my command, Oh Great Garter Finder!:D

Your prompt service is much appreciated, my dear!:D

[adamanteus]

My bill is in the post....ker-ching!:D

[Snake lover 3-25]

Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[anji1971]

My bill is in the post....ker-ching!:D

Boy, did you pick the wrong person to send a bill to.............I think I've got about 37 cents in my wallet right now!

[adamanteus]

That's 36 more than I have!

[Zephyr]

lol
I found butler's in a place where they weren't supposedly native. D:

[anji1971]

Well, I guess they're native now, aren't they?:D