NYS regulations?

[count dewclaw]

Does anybody know New York State's regulations on keeping and/or breeding native garter snakes (i.e. Eastern garters)? Or do you know where I need to look to find out? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[stonyloam]

Garter snakes in NY are "unprotected" (same for milk snakes). That means that you may do anything that you like with them. Keep them, collect them sell them or even, heaven forbid kill them. The only stipulation is that whatever you do you must do it in a humane fashion or you could run afoul of animal cruelty laws.
check out New York State's Native Reptiles - WNYHS (http://www.wnyherp.org/reptile-laws/new-york-reptiles.php)

[count dewclaw]

Thanks, I was trying to wade through the DEC website and was getting very confused.

[stonyloam]

Yeah, the NYSDEC website basically sucks!:mad:

[drache]

also remember, if you live in the five burroughs of NYC, an additional, much longer list applies
New York Animal Care & Control ( AC&C ) - Research Tools - NYC Administration Code (http://www.nycacc.org/nychealthcode.htm)

[count dewclaw]

Wow, I'm glad I don't live in the "city", that's quite a list of restricted animals.

[count dewclaw]

Garter snakes in NY are "unprotected" (same for milk snakes). That means that you may do anything that you like with them. Keep them, collect them sell them or even, heaven forbid kill them. The only stipulation is that whatever you do you must do it in a humane fashion or you could run afoul of animal cruelty laws.
check out New York State's Native Reptiles - WNYHS (http://www.wnyherp.org/reptile-laws/new-york-reptiles.php)

This DEC biologist disagrees....I sent NYS DEC an email asking about keeping and breeding garters that I caught in my yard, this is what they wrote back...

"This email has been sent to me for response. Garter snakes are
protected in New York as native wildlife species, and it is illegal to collect
wild snakes and keep them as personal pets. A License to Collect or
Possess (LCP) is required for individuals who wish to obtain native garter
snakes (whether they are wild or captive bred), but this license is
only issued to wildlife researchers, exhibitors or educators. If you have
any further questions on this, feel free to call or email.

-Chris

Christopher Ray
Biologist I
NYS Dept. Environmental Conservation
Special Licenses Unit"


So, I guess I'll have to release the snakes I have. Now I will have to focus on non-native species of garter snakes.

[drache]

I have that native species sheet somewhere and I'll have to look at it again
I don't remember that garters were protected, but the sheet is very confusing

[count dewclaw]

Well this guy seems to think they are...and he works for the DEC...

[drache]

he would probably know
the thing that gets me is how they expect anyone to know these rules
three different agencies all impose their restrictions and other than the NY state exotic pet list you can't google them
even if you're savvy and wanting to find out, it's easy to miss a few
okay I found it - aaahhh . . . I see
the sheet I have had it originally listed as unprotected both at the state and federal level, but amended with ball point pen on the sheet at the state level
they just crossed off unprotected, but didn't list the actual status
that's why it was confusing
okay - Chris Ray also added a note, saying that all native NY reptiles are protected as "game species", but most don't have set seasons
that makes it really clear then, right?
I think I'm going to call this guy again
he seemed nice, so perhaps he can tell me about the game seasons for various species
and for those of you who have native species visiting you in your homes - it'll be like the dam beavers (snopes.com: Beaver Dam Letter (http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/dammed.asp))

[count dewclaw]

Chris Ray also added a note, saying that all native NY reptiles are protected as "game species", but most don't have set seasons
that makes it really clear then, right?

That is what had me confused when I was looking at the DEC website. They were listed as "game" with no open season...so I was wondering if that meant "no take" or "unlimited take"? That is why I emailed them (it took over a month to get an answer btw!).

[Snake lover 3-25]

this is what i found.... but if you read it lists the species and says
""Definition." For purposes of this section, "native turtles" shall mean all life stages, including eggs, of the following species"
but it never completes the sentence?????
it also does this with all of the other sections in reptiles and amphibians.....:confused:

Part 2, Section 2.2 - Frogs and Part 3 - Reptiles - Express Terms

Express Terms

Part 2 of Title 6 NYCRR is amended as follows:
Section 2.2, "Taking of frogs," is repealed.
Part 3 of Title 6 NYCRR is amended as follows:
Part 3 is renamed to read as follows:
"Reptiles and Amphibians"
Section 3.1, "Protection of diamondback terrapin," is renamed to read as follows:
Section 3.1 [Protection of diamondback] Diamondback terrapins.
A new section 3.2, "Native turtles," is added to read as follows:
3.2 Native turtles.
(a) "Definition." For purposes of this section, "native turtles" shall mean all life stages, including eggs, of the following species: snapping turtle, common musk turtle, eastern mud turtle, spotted turtle, bog or Muhlenberg's turtle, wood turtle, eastern box turtle, common map turtle, painted turtle, Blanding's turtle, green sea turtle, Atlantic hawksbill sea turtle, loggerhead sea turtle, Atlantic or Kemp's ridley sea turtle, leatherback sea turtle, and eastern spiny softshell turtle.
(b) Snapping turtles.
(1) "Open season." July 15 to September 30.
(2) "Size limit." Minimum length: 12 inches. No person shall harvest, take or possess a snapping turtle with an upper shell (carapace) that measures, using a straight line, less than twelve inches in length.
(3) "Bag limit." Daily limit: 5. Seasonal limit: 30.
(4) "Hunting hours." Snapping turtles may be hunted at any time.
(c) All other native turtles.
(1) "Open season." None.
A new section 3.3, "Native snakes," is added to read as follows:
3.3 Native snakes.
(a) "Definitions." For purposes of this section, "native snakes" shall mean all life stages, including eggs, of the following species: northern water snake, queen snake, northern brown snake, northern redbelly snake, common garter snake, shorthead garter snake, ribbon snake, eastern hognose snake, northern ringneck snake, eastern worm snake, northern black racer, smooth green snake, black rat snake, eastern milk snake, northern copperhead, eastern massasauga, and timber rattlesnake.
(b) "Open season." None.

[drache]

no open season for snakes then
I notice I'm a little unhappy about this

[count dewclaw]

I notice I'm a little unhappy about this

I'm more than a little unhappy! I found some gorgeous snakes! :(

[bulrush]

In Michigan, the eastern garter is unprotected, but you also cannot sell them. Otherwise everyone would be out there catching them and selling them. I have a question in to the Michigan DNR asking them if I could catch a snake, but sell the babies. No reply yet, it's been about 5 days.

Game regulations say you can have up to 6 garters in your possession "for personal use", whatever that means. For commercial use you need a license. I assume they don't want you to take too many from the wild and sell them. I just wanted one for a pet.

[salzar]

okay maybe im just a sneeky kinda gal. but who is going to find out, OH I released the snakes,,,
ohhh the big bad DEC will stick there big fat nose in my home and raid it for small non agressive non poisonus snakes.. please...
the DEC is lame. BETTER TO ASK FORGIVENESS THAT PERMISION...
please do not listen to the ramblings of a non leagl person who might get in trouble from the BIG BAD DEC...
HEEEE HAAAAAAA just joking gosh knows we never do anything illigal..
just take good care of wonderful small colourful snakes that we love to death!
how horid of me!!

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol i agree totally!!!!....... i hope that they dont read this....:D

[adamanteus]

lol i agree totally!!!!....... i hope that they dont read this....:D

As soon as this thread goes quiet, I'll delete it!;)

[Snake lover 3-25]

yeah.... that would be a good idea:D

[anji1971]

It's hard to decide whether or not to follow the rules, or break them and hope nobody notices. I've been torturing myself since the release of the Butler's garter I had, wishing I'd just kept him and shut up about it. Especially since all the people I've notified and asked questions to seem to think it's a subject not even worth answering an email about! I'm beginning to think nobody would have cared if I had kept him.
On the other hand, if I hadn't released him, I would have tortured myself thinking I was harming the balance of nature, and the guilt would have got me instead!

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol yeah.... but there's NO WAY that I'm EVER going to let my only three snakes go!!!!!

[count dewclaw]

okay maybe im just a sneeky kinda gal. but who is going to find out, OH I released the snakes,,,
ohhh the big bad DEC will stick there big fat nose in my home and raid it for small non agressive non poisonus snakes.. please...
the DEC is lame. BETTER TO ASK FORGIVENESS THAT PERMISION...
please do not listen to the ramblings of a non leagl person who might get in trouble from the BIG BAD DEC...
HEEEE HAAAAAAA just joking gosh knows we never do anything illigal..
just take good care of wonderful small colourful snakes that we love to death!
how horid of me!!

Do with it as you will. I had asked the question, so I thought I would share the answer. For some of us there is more at stake than just whether or not the DEC will raid our home...I have children that I would like to raise to be honest people, they are watching my example...

[anji1971]

Do with it as you will. I had asked the question, so I thought I would share the answer. For some of us there is more at stake than just whether or not the DEC will raid our home...I have children that I would like to raise to be honest people, they are watching my example...

Which is a very important reason!! That's ultimately what made me decide to release Twister. I want my kids to grow up understanding the value of the environment and endangered species. And they need to learn that following your values isn't always easy.

[Snake lover 3-25]

well i AM a kid and i WONT do it!!!! LOLOLOL:D

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

lol well urs isnt endangered

well i AM a kid and i WONT do it!!!! LOLOLOL:D

[Snake lover 3-25]

that's what YOU think LOL!!!!!:D

[Zephyr]

In Michigan, the eastern garter is unprotected, but you also cannot sell them. Otherwise everyone would be out there catching them and selling them. I have a question in to the Michigan DNR asking them if I could catch a snake, but sell the babies. No reply yet, it's been about 5 days.

Game regulations say you can have up to 6 garters in your possession "for personal use", whatever that means. For commercial use you need a license. I assume they don't want you to take too many from the wild and sell them. I just wanted one for a pet.
Ah, but if you read what it says, you're allowed a COLLECTION limit of 6. Meaning you can only TAKE 6 garters from the wild. There are no limits on possession. ;D
It also does not say that you can't sell CB babies.

[Zephyr]

I wonder how half of these stupid laws came about. At least the Michigan ones make half sense... Cept for the snapping turtle ones. x.x

[Snake lover 3-25]

lol those are the ONLY NY ones that make sense!!!!!!!:D