All dead

[GarterGuy]

It's not been a good week. I lost both of the two baby blue phase T.ordinoides. They both seemed to be doing very well and looked really good. One of them early last week, just became sluggish and wouldn't eat at all. I had thought that it was just getting ready to shed again, but within two more days it was dead. The other one did the same thing early this week. I have NO IDEA what happened and I'm really upset over this, I really put a lot into getting these guys through and it all amounted to nothing. This is actually the first time I've ever lost any snakes that I've gotten before and it's really upsetting me. I don't think that I'll ever order snakes online from someone that I don't know or who isn't well respected as a herpetoculturist. I can't help think that no matter what I did, these poor little guys just were'nt going to make it. I'll pass this on as a word of warning to those that are thinking of doing the same as I did. Remember, if you can't actually see the snakes and know exactly what it is your getting; then you could really be in for some problems.

[Stefan-A]

I'm truly sorry for your loss. :(

Is there some authority you can contact about having the snakes examined? Just to rule out the possibility of an infectious disease. I know some people over here send their dead pets to the Finnish Food Safety Authority, which performs autopsies on livestock, as well as pets, for a reasonable fee.

[Cazador]

Hey Roy,
I'm really sorry to hear that you lost your blue pickeringii. Remember that I ordered two yearlings and two adults from the same guy who sold you yours, and my two yearlings also died. Here's what I make of it. Not only was he feeding goldfish, but the shipment up here during the winter further stressed them and probably weakened their immune system, which made them more vulnerable to infections and infestations than they normally would have been. I know it's tough, but based on your other posts it's clear that you were taking good care of them and their death wasn't the result of improper care.

I treated my older ones with panacur (dewormer) and multivitamins, and they seem to be doing fine. They had very runny stool at first, but now their stool has improved. I won't hibernate mine until after I've also treated them with Flagyl (anti-amoebic/protozoan medication). I just think they came to us parasitized, and the stress of winter shipment made them more susceptible. Again, I'm sorry for your loss :(.

At the very least, you should send him an e-mail to let him know what happened. I have. He might treat his snakes and offer you a discount in the spring. If nothing else, it lets him know that multiple customers are having similar problems with his snakes. I still have his e-mail address if you want it.
Rick

P.S. You might want to freeze your snakes in a zip-loc baggie in case you need them for later reference.

[GarterGuy]

At the very least, you should send him an e-mail to let him know what happened. I have. He might treat his snakes and offer you a discount in the spring. If nothing else, it lets him know that multiple customers are having similar problems with his snakes. I still have his e-mail address if you want it.
Rick

P.S. You might want to freeze your snakes in a zip-loc baggie in case you need them for later reference.

Yeh, I was planning on sending him an email anyways, to let him know that he's selling T.orinoides rather than T.s.pickeringii. I do have them all in the freezer already. I know pretty much nothing will get done from this and I'm not entirely sure if I want other snakes from him that might give me yet more problems. Part of me also is not sure if I want to support someone who takes such poor care of the animals that he's selling either, by getting more animals from him. I know that not a lot of garters are captive bred yet, especially here in the US,...but it does upset me that soo many have to die just to get a couple to live. Not sure where to go with this now. Thanx for the thoughts and I'll keep you all up dated on what happens from here.

--Roy

[Cazador]

Oops. I got it in my head that we bought pickeringii and sometimes I still think of them that way.

[sschind]

I am sorry for your loss garterguy, I was looking into some of those same snakes but a word of warning from Cazador plus some financial problems made me think better of it. I'm glad I didn't now but I know that doesn't make you feel any better. Hopefully it won't be too long until decent cbb garters are as available as corns and we won't be forced to buy unknown snakes from unknown people just to get the animals we want.

[abcat1993]

is this that guy called "Bob" that everybody was talking about. I wouldn't buy from him anymore. PetCo's cricket fed garters sound better well kept than his. Or maybe he just doesn't treat their diseases. I don't really know much about him though.

[Thamnophis]

Roy, I also am sorry for your loss.

[KITKAT]

My adults are still apparently fine... so if they breed and I get healthy young, you would be welcome to a couple then. I'm sure if I get that far in the project, I will post photos and news on the forum... ;)

[Cazador]

Hi Abcat,
We're all talking about the same guy... the "Bob" that advertises on kingsnake.com.

Kitkat,
Glad to hear yours are doing well. Have you been treating them, and do you plan to brumate them? I'll brumate mine after I've finished treating them. They'll probably have a late litter as a result, so I expect my babies to be smaller than others (if they reproduce at all).

Rick

[KITKAT]

I have not treated as of yet, because stools look normal, activity looks normal, and they are eating (F/T fish and nightcrawlers) well.

I plan to move them to a larger enclosure in about a week, with no heat lamps or lights, and a reduced feeding schedule. It won't be full brumation, but will be around 65 degrees.

After about 3 - 4 weeks, I will resume lighting and more frequent feeding.

Then we will see whether they respond with reproductive activity... or not... :confused:

[sschind]

Bob also has a nice looking trio of adult valley garters listed. I am tempted but not after what I have heard.

To be fair, he is not advertising them as CBB or anything but it would be nice to have some assurance that they are at least healthy. I am not opposed to buying WC, and I am not opposed to treating them, its just that this guy has had his share of problem snakes. Lets hope for the others sake its just the blue ones and he just got a bad batch. I don't see him stopping selling any time soon.

I'll be watching the classifieds for when either kitkat or cazador have some available.

[GarterGuy]

Thank you everyone for your support. It's really nice to have this community of people who can understand and relate to what's going on.:)
Oh and yes.....I'll be looking out for babies from you all in the future!;)

Thanx......Roy

[ssssnakeluvr]

Sorry for your loss, they were pretty little snakes!! Kinda sounds like he went out and caught gravid females and kept them until they gave birth then sold the babies....I have had occasional problems with wild caught snake babies dieing for no apparent reason. I have worked with Scott Felzer a lot and have gotten some "problem feeders" form him on occasion. There will always be a small percentage of babies die for no apparent reason...I have had a few seemingly healthy babies die on me, and they were eating well. Hopefully some of the other blue babies will survive and we can get some good captive born babies out th ere! I'm not sure how many other serious breeders are out there..in the U.S., but Scott and I are definitely serious about garters (Scott started breeding in 96 and has quite the collection now!).

[Snaky]

It's a pitty to hear of your loss. Hopefully, indeed, some will have luck in the furture on breeding with them.

From all the reading on 'Bob', I wouldn't take the risk of buying from him anymore...

[Elliot]

Sorry to hear that.

[brandon0133]

anyone know of someone selling garters in nc?

[zooplan]

Sorry for your loss, Roy.
Its hard to read things like that early in the morning.
Hope you´ll find some new from a well known guy here, and hear good news about thier growing up.

[Snaky]

This is actually an old thread, brought back to live apparently...

[flakgunner]

hey,
so sorry for your loss Garterguy,this is really turning into a crappie snake week!!:(,you lost your two little ones,my 6ft. Bull Snake died,on Sunday,and our Daughter #3,coming home from school yesterday found a Plains GarterSnake,laying in the ditch,all cut up,gartersnakes vs. lawnmover =:mad:,where working on it know,but it's not looking very good at this point,looks like it happened Sunday,temps hit 60,so everyone around here was getting in yard work,bad thing is Sunday night,temps dropped to the mid-30's.

Joe

[drache]

guys
Roy's lost his babies almost a year ago
but when I saw this thread, I too thought at first it was this week
you can see how old a thread/post is, by checking the date in the green (or blue) bar above the poster's name
I imagine you're probably not too upset about this particular loss any more, Roy

[enigma200316]

Yes, sorry for that loss last year Roy, I've however just lost one of my baby Pareitalis to unknown reason, weird isn't it thats how most are....:)

[lyn s]

sorry for your loss.i have a snake coming soon hope its not from bob.

[flakgunner]

guys
Roy's lost his babies almost a year ago
but when I saw this thread, I too thought at first it was this week
you can see how old a thread/post is, by checking the date in the green (or blue) bar above the poster's name
I imagine you're probably not too upset about this particular loss any more, Royhey,
I saw that after it was to late,I was going to delete my post but was unable to,with just waking up and in the wee early hours,I wasn't paying attention.

Joe