Brumation tips, precautions, or experiences

[Cazador]

Since it's that time of the year, I thought it would be a good idea to start a discussion about different experiences or techniques we use that relate to brumation. Hopefully we can help one another avoid common (or uncommon) problems (putting them in, taking them out, or even keeping them in brumation). Here's an example:

I used to brumate my snakes in my heated garage. It worked fine for a few years, but one time in the late fall the temperature in the garage was in the mid-50s (~13C). The outside temperature was in the upper 30s (~3C). I raised the garage door about 1/2-way up to reduce heat loss while my kids were running in and out of the garage to play. Within about 1/2-hour, the temperature in the garage dropped to about the mid-40s, and I ended up losing two of my brumating snakes. This example shows that brumating snakes are very vulnerable to sudden temperature changes.

Pass along whatever advise that you think might help someone else out.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I brumate mine in the garage also....the temps stay in the 40's. Haven't had a problem...only did it one year (only had the house for 2). It's not uncommon to lose a snake or 2 (or more depending on the number in brumation). I have had a few bad years before that. I did the fridge with the molding off the sides so air could get in....lost a bunch to high humidity. I then brumated them in my storage unit in the condo I lived in...it was under the condo (basement converted to strage units). thought that would work good, but....the heat vents for the condo above it ran thru and would heat the snakes up at night.... I lost a few there too....:(

[Cazador]

I should have mentioned that I checked on the snakes in the garage about an hour before I opened the door. Within 1/2-hour of closing the door, the snakes were dead. I imagine that unless it's bitterly cold outside, just opening and closing the garage door to get your car in or out wouldn't have the same effect, unless of course the snakes were near the door (I know... it goes without saying).

Now I keep them downstairs in a storage space with a concrete floor. The temp stays pretty steady in the mid-to-lower 50s.

[Thamnophis]

My snakes are since yesterday completely without light and heathing. They are standing on the attic. The temperature there is about 10 - 13 degrees Celsius. In a few days I am going to put them in their plastic boxes where they will stay for about two months, depending on the weather.
I' ve done this before this way during a number of years and have never lost a snake (or lizard) in this way.
One half of the boxes is a bit moist and the other half is dry.
I check on them once a week or so and when neccesary I spray some cold water in the box.

[boeh]

Hi there!

For a few days I put my 1 year old tetrataenia in the fridge. The temperature there is now about 9 ° C (~48 ° F). Next week I will lower the temperature to about 6 - 7 ° C (~43 ° F). For me it's the best possible practice because the temperature in the cellar isn't constant.

More than 1 month before I stoped to feed her. After I was sure that the bowel is blank, I started to lower the temperature by dimming the light every day. After a good week dimming the light down I switched the light completely out and put her in a box. After 3 days without light in the box by about 15 - 17 ° C (~60 ° F) I put her in the fridge.

The fridge is just for the snakes and their food. So the snake will not be disturbed to much. Every week I gonna change the water in her box. The box is filled with a lot of substrate and some moistened kitchen roll to provide enough humidity.

This is the first year I do that like this. In about 2 months we will know more about this way of hibernating snakes. I know from other snake owner with good experiences with this kind of hibernation.

Greets from the cold switzerland,
Cyrill

[ssssnakeluvr]

You want to keep the humidity as low as possible...I kept snakes in a fridge and the humidity killed them, got the skin infections and died... Garters can be real sensitive to humidity.

[Cazador]

I also try to keep the hibernaculum pretty dry. I've read that people have lost snakes when their hibernaculum became too moist. One guy mentioned that his moist wood chips even became covered with fungus. That can't be good for a snake's lung(s). Personally, I brumate snakes on paper towels with a small water bowl at one end and change the paper towels whenever they become too moist. It works for me.

[GarterGuy]

I don't have any garters wintering over yet, but I do have a pair of L.m.thayeri that are in my basement right now. I worry about what's going on with them, but I was told by a friend to not bother them too much, but now with all that I've been hearing here.....I'm a bit worried about them. They're on Carefresh bedding with a small water bowl, but they have a tendecey to get the bedding in the bowl. I used this since I figured they'd want to burrow........is it better to just use something to cover the bottom? And how often is too often to be checking on them?

----Roy

[Cazador]

You'll probably get a lot of different opinions on that one, Roy. I change the water and wash their water bowls every 10 days to 2 weeks, but I haven't heard of any "rule." This always involves a little bit of handling, but I try to make it as quick as possible. I just don't want bacteria to build up in their water dishes. As far as the Carefresh, I steer clear of particularly dusty bedding material that could enter their lung(s). I probably error on the side of being over cautious, but I tried using bark bedding and am even considering going back to paper towels. I wouldn't even consider bark near birth. The bark looks much better and makes it easier to clean up feces/urates, but it makes the snakes dusty and dulls their coloration... not to mention the potential effect on their lung(s). These are just my personal preferences, though.
Rick

[boeh]

I think we have to differ between humidity of the air and humidity of the substrate. I entitle with you that the substrate shoudln't be wet. That have to make problems. But i think a normal (till 60 %) humidity of the air isn't harmful for the snakes. Rather I would say it's better than dry air. I've got to do some research to find the article where I read about the humidity (of the air...) and the problems, if she's to low.


Btw, the humidity in my fridge is about ~40 %. For my opinion, it's to low for a healthy hibernation. That's the reason why I put some moist kitchen paper over the substrate. So, the substrate is dry, but the humidity of the air ok.

A picture say more than my basic english words ;-)

http://www.boeh.ch/foren/box.jpg

Cyrill

[jasuncle1972]

Thus past Sat. I bought my garter 4 feeders she ate them 2 days laterand was active tue.12/19, it was warm here.any body have tips on preparing for the arrival of babies in the spring? Lost all but one last year.

[GarterGuy]

Well after all this talk about loosing snakes in brumation, I had to go check my L.m.thayeri and see how they're doing. They look fine.....like the day I put them down. I did take out the carefresh bedding and replaced it with paper towls (thanks Cazador!)....wasn't too worried about the dust from it, but I noticed that they were filling their water bowls with it and making the substrate damp. They're not burrowing in it at all anyways (the two times I've checked on them now, they've been on top of the cork bark in there, just coiled up sitting), so the paper towls will do the trick. So far this is what I've done with them....
1) I let them sit for two weeks with normal temps. (~80'sF) and such, but no food....to get everything out of their systems
2)I turned off the heaters and let them sit at reptile room temp. (75F) for two weeks
3)I then put them in their boxes (just plastic storage boxes with holes punched through them for ventilation) and put the storage boxes in a cardbord box with a few holes in it (this is to keep them dark and keep the cats away from them!)...I sat this in a closet at room temp. (65F) for two weeks
4)From the closet they went into the basement near an outside wall, away from all heat sources (furnace, washer and dryer, ect.) where they've been at around 55F for three weeks now.
In March I plan on going just the opposite way with this to wake them back up.

[Cazador]

Sounds like a good protocol, Roy. It's not necessary, but for about $20, you could buy a digital thermometer with remote sensor and high/low temperature memory. Some also come with humidity sensors, but they're a bit more expensive. I put the remote sensor (without humidity gauge) leaning against the outside of a stack of hibernacula, and I put the receiver, which also reads the temperature at its location, in a terrarium on my desk at home. Then I can easily see the temp in the terrarium in front of me and at the hibernacula in the other room.

The other thing I like to do is to weigh (and measure) the snakes before putting them down for brumation. If I get concerned about any snake, I can re-weigh them and get a more accurate index of how they're doing. The measuring bit is just for my records. It doesn't help with brumation.

Jasuncle,
Brumation isn't critical, but it sure increases the likelihood of getting your snake pregnant. If you've recently fed her, don't put her back into a cold area right away. Let her digest her food and pass her waste.

You can boost your odds of your female delivering healthy offspring by giving her plenty of privacy/hiding spots, and feeding her small but frequent meals. I'm also an advocate of giving multivitamins including, but not limited to, calcium powder and folic acid. I'm sure the parturition discussions will intensify as spring approaches.
Rick

[Sid]

Well, this is my first time to burmate. What I've done to this point:
1. As mine went off food, started a cool down and allowed 3 weeks for clean out of disgestive system.
2. Relocated to basement in a community enclosure (by sex), where it remains between 50 to 55 degrees F.
3. Keep check on water and replace with clean weekly ro as needed.

Sid

[ssssnakeluvr]

Separating sex isn't necessary...I put breeding pairs together. Have a friend here in Utah that has had wandering garters breeding in brumation.

[Cazador]

Hey Sid,
The only thing I'd add is that you want it to remain pretty dark throughout their brumation cycle. You can drape a dark cloth over the hibernaculum or even add a loose plastic bag to the outside, but just make sure not to cut off the O2/CO2 flow.
Rick

[Sid]

Hey Sid,
The only thing I'd add is that you want it to remain pretty dark throughout their brumation cycle. You can drape a dark cloth over the hibernaculum or even add a loose plastic bag to the outside, but just make sure not to cut off the O2/CO2 flow.
Rick

Thanks, it is normally dark in the basement. However, if the weather does get unseasonably warm all my vent open automaticly which does let a limited amout of light in. I will add the dark cloth.

Thanks again,
Sid

[garterking]

You'll probably get a lot of different opinions on that one, Roy. I change the water and wash their water bowls every 10 days to 2 weeks, but I haven't heard of any "rule." This always involves a little bit of handling, but I try to make it as quick as possible. I just don't want bacteria to build up in their water dishes. As far as the Carefresh, I steer clear of particularly dusty bedding material that could enter their lung(s). I probably error on the side of being over cautious, but I tried using bark bedding and am even considering going back to paper towels. I wouldn't even consider bark near birth. The bark looks much better and makes it easier to clean up feces/urates, but it makes the snakes dusty and dulls their coloration... not to mention the potential effect on their lung(s). These are just my personal preferences, though.
Rick

Well, this is my first time putting any of my snakes into brumation. My other 2 are fine and eating regularly, but after reading this I'm a little nervous. My male (in hibernation) is in my laundry room, on a cement floor, next to an outside wall. The thermometer stays at 56 or 57 without much movement. I put a box over the aquarium so it stays dark, but leave half the top flap open to allow for ventilation. No condensation on the glass, so I think I'm good. I'm using the forest floor bedding (100% natural cypress mulch), but he just stays curled up in a ball under his hide but on top of the substrate.
I don't want to bother him too much and other than to change the water and make sure he's still breathing, I don't handle him at all. I'm not so sure he even moves out of his hide at all. If he's not burrowing under the mulch, should I replace it with paper towels? I thought I was trying to make him as comfy as possible, but now I'm not so sure. I don't want to keep bothering if I don't have to. I know what I'm like when I want to sleep and someone bothers me. LOL
Another question. Just of interest. Do they accually sleep in brumation, or are they just sedated and mellow.
Thanks everyone. This site is great for getting the info you need and to make our lives much easier.

Mike

[Cazador]

Hey Mike,
A lot of people brumate their snakes on mulch and have excellent results. I just prefer paper towels because they're easy to check for moisture and the occasional urate. They're also clean and easy to use. Wood has a lot of pores where bacteria and fungi are able to hide, so that's another reason I choose to avoid them.

Snakes aren't quite always sleeping during brumation, it's more like they're very lethargic and "drowsy." All of their bodily processes slow down, including their immune system and sensory perception, but they still move around. You want to give your snakes a lot of peace and quiet, but don't be afraid to check on them once in a while. A moment of handling every few weeks is trivial compared to the potential dangers of having a damp cage or a sick snake during brumation. Checking on them is also important to ensure they aren't suffering excessive weight loss. It's also a good time to clean their water bowl and give them fresh, cool water. Luckily, parasites are ectothermic as well and slow down their activity levels at lower temperatures.

[CrazyHedgehog]

I think I am going to have to invest in a regulator, here in the uk, any sheds or basements go well below zero! so too cold, and then inside their is just too much central hearting!

[Cazador]

You might consider a closet, crawlspace, attic, or some other out-of-the-way spot that doesn't get as much heat. It might be worthwhile to look around with a thermometer, first (if you haven't already done so).

[abcat1993]

Do they sell any books on just brumating snakes/reptiles? And do they sell commercial "brumaters" to use instead of refridgerators?

[Cazador]

I've also read and studied about the relative humidity of the air and problems with the lungs if the RH is too low, but giving the right level of detail might become an issue on this one. If relative humidity of the air is too low, it can destroy the alveoli (pockets in lungs where oxygen diffuses into the bloodstream).

Low relative humidity in the air can also dehydrate snakes. The relative humidity in the lungs is always 100%, and when an organism exhales, it breathes out very humid air. The humidity isn't replaced when dry air is inhaled. That requires additional drinking, but when snakes are brumating, they drink less often. Therefore, fairly humid air (up to about 60% or less) is beneficial, but continually moist substrate is harmful. Hope this helps,
Rick