Head bobbing...

[Zephyr]

Has anyone else ever seen this? I've noticed it when two garters make body contact, sometimes one of them seems to bob there head and neck rapidly, but the movement is very subtle. Is this related to breeding or just general communication?

[KITKAT]

Have wondered the same thing... perhaps a subtle form of the lizard head bobbing?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

m garters all do that. it's jsut the way they say hey, im another garter and im not here to hurt you. I noticed all my garters do it, especially when they meet a snake they've never met before.

[GarterGuy]

I've noticed that as well. I wonder if it is really a type of "communication" that they are using. Don't think there's any actual documentation or studies on that in snakes at all. Also wonder if it's just a captive animal thing or they do it in the wild as well. Sounds like a good topic for study.

[adamanteus]

Interesting indeed. I have often seen it but never really given it much consideration before. It could be a form of communication, but for an animal with relatively poor eyesight, visual communication would at first seem inappropriate. Definitely requires further study.

[gregmonsta]

J and Slithers do it all the time :)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

it's definately not just a captive thing. take two garters from the wild, and put them in a container together for the first time. I guarantee you they'll do it everytime.

[anji1971]

Oh, I hope I can get a couple more snakes this summer so I can see what you're all talking about!

[enigma200316]

I have seen the same thing with my garters as well, even around feeding time, I think its more just something they do..........:)

[GarterGuy]

it's definately not just a captive thing. take two garters from the wild, and put them in a container together for the first time. I guarantee you they'll do it everytime.


Yeh, but I wonder if it's something they actually use in the wild. Doesn't seem like they'd be in close contact all that much to have actually developed something like this. Although they do tend to brumate in large groups, wonder if that's maybe where it developed? As far as being visual. Garters are a lot more visual then other snakes, so it wouldn't surprise me to see them using visual signs....such as motion for communication. If I get up to Manitoba this year, I'll have to check things out and see if I can document any of this "bobbing" from snakes at the den sites. I'll also ask the people working there if they know or have heard anything about this.

[Zephyr]

I saw my old garter, Scooty, do this when I introduced him to a friend's ribbon snake. The ribbon didn't respond, but he was doing it from behind her. *His head was behind hers, so there was no way she could've seen him.* Maybe it's the sound of the bobbing? Or just the rapid motion catches their eye. Or, if they do it every time they make body contact, maybe it's the touch?

[Zephyr]

And also, is there even the MINUTEST chance that it's a learned behavior?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

lol I wasnt talking about them bobbing their heads beardd dragon style. you are talking about when they smell each other or rub up against one another, their head and body does this little tweaky twitch thing, right? they don't bob their heads like a lizard does haha! its a touch and smell thing. one garter does it, and if the other garter feels it and is responsive, it does it back. In the process of "twitching", they often get carried away and swing their head towards the ground a few times. I don't think its visual at all. if one of mine does it when they're not touching the other garter, it's because they just "got a whiff" of the other snake and they start twitching when they smell another garter. I have noticed that my females do it more than my males do. It's not just a garter thing either, all 7 of my corns all do this when they come into contact with each other. It's the way snakes say "hi, i'm another snake and I'm not going to eat you, and if it's a male he's saying I'm also going to check you out as a potential mate now ::intense tongue flicking begins::"

I have noticed that king's don't do it to other snakes, mainly because many times they DO intend to eat the other snake and don't really want to hold a conversation with their next meal. If you are breeding kings, however, the male and female will usually do the twitch greeting before courtship.

having 36 garters, I will say that ALL of them do it!

[adamanteus]

In the process of "twitching", they often get carried away and swing their head towards the ground a few times. I don't think its visual at all.

Yeah... everything Shannon just said!:D I totally agree. I know Garters have better eyesight than many snakes... but I don't see this behaviour as a visual communication.

[Zephyr]

Hmm... Perhaps I should do some experiments with this this summer. Maybe do something along the lines of taking two wild garters, introducing them directly to eachother and observing, and then trying it with two other garters and put some sort of barrier between them that would allow their "smell" to pass through, but no visual cues that another snake is in the area.

[adamanteus]

That might not work, Kyle. I think it's probably a tactile thing... they need to touch each other.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

usually their tongue needs to directly hit another garter for them to give a good twitch.

[Zephyr]

So, we think that it's a response to the touch of another snake and the smell? It would have to be both, otherwise they'd have to know exactly what another snake feels like, or they'd do it when their handler gently touches them when they're off guard.
And do you think the smell stimuli has to come first in the process? *Edit- As opposed to touch being first.*

[adamanteus]

I think it's a combination of the two senses...... they recognise that another Garter is in the immediate vicinity. That's how I see it.

[Zephyr]

My other question is if it's a "Hey, I'm here" movement or a "welcome" movement followed by that. In other words, if the arriving snake is making its presence known, or if the other snake is recognizing the other snake's presence.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

lol you are over analyzing it. It means

"hey i'm a snake."

"hey I'm a snake too."

end of conversation.

lol!

[Zephyr]

Just curious. :P

[Stefan-A]

lol you are over analyzing it. It means

"hey i'm a snake."

"hey I'm a snake too."

end of conversation.

lol!
I think it's certainly possible, but I think if they did it to communicate, it would have to be their version of IFF. "Don't panic, I'm mostly harmless."

[GarterGuy]

Hmmmm....didn't really notice any of the "head bobbing" when I bred my thayeri last year. But then there wasn't a whole lot of formality in that, the male just went right after the female after he picked up her scent. He did the twitchy, rubby thing when he caught up with her, like all snakes seem to do when courting, but it was very different from the bobbing thing I see in the garters.

[mycolorfulheart]

Do we know how good their eyesight is/if they can see colors/etc?

Raven watches me all the time, I'd always assumed she could see me pretty well.