Where do the babies go?

[adamanteus]

Here's a thought....

Although our stats. say we have 3,000+ members, we probably have around 50 active members at any time. Maybe 50% of those are regular breeders of Garters. Each one producing maybe an average of 100 babies each year. But we're just the tip of the iceberg, there must be thousands of hobbyists out there, who aren't members of this forum, producing similar quantities of baby Garters every year.

When you start to do the math you realize how many babies must be sold/exchanged within the hobby every year. How big is the market? Who is buying all these baby snakes? If they are surviving, who buying them the following year?

I have no answers or theories, it's just a random thought for you to play with. But I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it.:)

[Tori]

I believe that garters are considered the harmless snake for kids, a great "first snake". Which means that most garters are sold to and cared for by kids. I doubt if there is a high survival rate. Keeping in mind that inexpensive equals disposible to most people. This one dies just get another; or worse, if this one gets too big or mean just let it loose and get a baby. I would imagine that all kinds of garters have been released in areas where they are not native. To most buyers, if "garters" can be found in their area they can salve their conscious by saying their's can survive here too (meaning an area that might or might not supply the food that they will eat). That is why I have only exchanged or sold garters to people that I feel are responsible owners with enough experience to give them a good life. Someone with a larger collection than I have must be terribly bothered to know that they have very little control over what will happen to their babies. I have no intentions of going that large but even a few snakes can provide 100's of babies to find homes for. That is a big enough headache to think about for me.

Sorry, snow and ice storm here has closed where I work, so I have time to haunt the forum tonight.

Tori

[adamanteus]

Good answer, Tori. What a responsible outlook you have! I think you're right though... probably most captive bred Garters end up prematurely dead at the hands of inexperienced and poorly educated novices.

[Zephyr]

Actually, in MI, I don't see a lot of garters for sale. Usually a couple mixed specimens this time of year, but generally a sickly albino plains garter, nothing more. As a "breeder," I've taken a very odd approach. I leave the process itself to nature. Every fall I let my garters go to their wild brumation site, and find them within the area the following year to keep them in "captivity" til they give birth. Then I select those who fit my breeding criteria, consisting of aesthetics and attitude, and let the others go back where they'd be born. I'm really trying to get the North-eastern bloodline known worldwide, because, honestly, we have the best looking WC snakes ANYWHERE. :D

[gregmonsta]

It's horrible thinking about it. At the same time the more recent trend of more difficult to care for species being branded as being 'fine' for beginners is quite worrying. Some people don't do enough research into them and it inevitably leads to problems.

[Sid]

Great question, James. Here in my area, I rarely see a Garter for sale either. A few on occassion at expos near enought for me to drive to. There are a number of King snake folks around and they openly advertise asking for baby Garters. All of us know what would be in store for the babies if we sold to these guys! I personnlly raise very few, but when I do the majority are released into the wild here around my house (those common to the area). The population here has reduced dramaticly in the last number of years. Those that are kept, I select a couple to keep, the rest are given to people who can convince me they will get proper care.

[Tori]

I have to agree with Zephyr, Michigan has some beautiful wild garters (mostly Easterns) which has one of the widest variety of colors that are natural to them. I'm over in Western MI and I've run into all colors. My mostly yellow eastern sub-adult came from a WC female and she gave birth to at least six different colored babies (out of 56 babies). Silvers, almost lime green, yellow, mostly reds, very dark with no yellow or orange, and one peach colored. Haven't run into an albino yet, but still looking.

[drache]

I've given this some thought
this is the first time I've experienced garter babies and I want to experience more
I've also gone through the experience of letting go of "my" babies and that has been more complicated
I don't think I want to produce a lot of snakes
I also don't really want a "collection" of snakes
I totally see, how it could be cool, and I certainly enjoy seeing other people's
for myself, what I enjoy most, is watching them and getting a sense of each snake's personality
I am near capacity now
so it's good I can be pretty certain, my babies found good homes
I really would not want them to become king snake food or even neglected
I don't see a lot of garters at the expo I go to and neither do I see much interest in them
I just hope, I don't end up with gigantic litters . . .

[tikichick]

I co-admin a Texas reptile forum and in the past year and a half, we've only had the one batch of garters come up (that's where I got my six checkered babies). And I have never seen any listed on the local Craig's List. Tons of bp's and boas, some corns, fewer kings and rats, but in perusing CL for the past couple years, never a garter. Weird, imo, because they're awesome snakes! Of course, now it's illegal to sell them here :(

[enigma200316]

I agree with pretty much every thing every one has said, I really don't have anything else to put to it, except I glad that we have such good members here on this forum and such caring ones at that............:)

[ssssnakeluvr]

it's extremely rare to find garters at pet stores here in Utah....most of the pet stores view them as "beginner snakes" and no money in it. At the wasatch reptile expo, the only garters there were the ones I was showing....I actually sold a couple babies. the only consistent place here to find garters is Scott Felzer.....on a side note...go to kingsnake.com and to the garter snake forum...he posted a bunch of photos.

[SerpentGirl]

Hmmm, I have never seen a Garter snake for sale at any pet store around where I live. Maybe it is illegal to sell them here (in Missouri)? I have no idea. :o

[anji1971]

The pet store here doesn't sell them either. They tell me it's because there's no demand, and they aren't legally allowed to sell any that are native to the area(Easterns).

[drache]

it occurs to me that the vast majority of people who have garters probably don't breed them
if you (or your parent) bought your garter at a petshop, chances are you won't be told what kind of garter it is
the employees might not even know that there's different species and they most likely tell you that it eats crickets and goldfish
I think it's a long road from that to babies
unless you got two garters of the opposite gender by accident
so I think the quantity of intentional breeders is probably not that great