T. radix pics

[sschind]

Here are a couple of T. radix I picked up. I had never paid much attention to plains garters before but of the ones I have seen I don't remember there being as much red in them. As I am finding out though, red is a pretty common color in garters. (My melanistic easterns are supposed to be het for flame.) the radix are two males but that doesn't matter since radix is native to Wisconsin I can't breed them anyway still, if anyone knows where I can get a similar looking female nothing says I can't give them away.

These guys were even more uncooperative than the Blacknecks. I had to put them in a high deli cup and let them get a little tired out so they would settle down.

[Gijs & Sabine]

Very nice garters, but they don't look like plains at all.:confused:

[Thamnophis]

Very nice, those plains garters.

This picture is a plains garter from Illinois.
Also has much red in it.

http://www.herp-pix.org/thamnophis/radix1.JPG

[Stefan-A]

Thamnophis, are you sure that's a radix? I don't mean the color's "wrong", but the lateral stripe seems to be a bit low for the row 3&4 stripe usually associated with plains garters.

[ssssnakeluvr]

Those are all red sided garters....t. sirtalis parietalis.... plains garters have the side stripe on scale rows 3 and 4, where all other garters are on rows 2 to 3. There are red phase plains garters....I have a pic of one, but it's Scott's pic...will email and see if I can post his pic.

[sschind]

As close as I can tell the lateral stripe on mine is on rows 2 & 3. I was told they were radix from the guy I got them from but he was going by what he was told by the guy he got them from. I have the word out to the guy who produced them so I am going to see if if I can get it straightened out. If the do turn out to be t. sirtalis parietalis (which I hope they are) does anyone want to trade a female for a male.

[GarterGuy]

Yeh, I have to agree with ssssnakeluvr....they all look like T.s.parietalis to me too. The side stripe is too low in the scale count and also they're missing the characteristic row of black spots between the side stripe and the ventrals that all T.radix seem to have. I've seen pics of red T.radix on other sites and they still show all the characteristic side stripes at rows 3 and 4 and spots below the stripe.

[Thamnophis]

I got that picture from this site...

http://www.herp-pix.org/thamnophis/thamnophis1.htm

[Cazador]

I'm rotten at telling similar species/subspecies from one another, but I know remarkable snakes when I see them. Steve, your radix2 picture, and thamnophis, your picture shows exceptionally beautiful snakes!

[ssssnakeluvr]

hmmmm...I pulled up that link and they do have that red sider listed under plains garter......:(

[sschind]

I think a good deal of the problem, as we all know, lies in the common names. I was on a page last night that had a picture of a "red sided garter" and under that was listed Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis. I don't know for certain what the picture actually was of but I can say that from being in the pet business for a while, it seems that any garter snake with any amount of red on it is called a "red sided garter snake." I am far from an expert on garters and I certainly will defer to ssssnakeluvr and Garterguy on this. As I said, the stripes are definitely an rows 2-3. I'll let you no with certainty if I can ever find the guy who produced them. I guess the chain of possesion went like this. Producer, pet shop, wholesaler, me, and my wholesaler was told by the pet shop guy he got them from that they were T. radix. At least that's what he remembers.

Actually I am glad that it is T.s.parietalis. That way, if I can find a mate for it I might be able to sell them here in wisconsin. Although, I don't know if they make a distinction between subspecies. To them a T. sirtalis is a T. sirtalis.

Thanks for the help.

[GarterGuy]

I got that picture from this site...

http://www.herp-pix.org/thamnophis/thamnophis1.htm

Funny, but when you look at the three pics of the T.radix on that page, the first two show all the characteristics of what you'd expect for T.radix and then the third one shows more of the T.s.parietalis characteristics. I'm almost wondering if it wasn't just a messup on pic placement, since the T.s.parietalis pics are listed right above the T.radix pics?:confused: