Energy efficient reptile keeping?

[Sputnik]

I love my wonderful collection of snakeys, lizards, dragons, etc. but I have always had this niggling worry about electricity costs in the back of my mind.
Sure enough I had a letter from my electricity company yesterday, saying that they will increase my monthly standing order by £20 ($39). :( That's a heck of a lot of money.

My supplier is Ecotricity, so at least the energy is produced via wind turbines but I still worry about my hobby having an adverse effect on the environment.

Is there any way that I can keep the energy usage lower? My garters only have heat mats, the babies get natural light, the adult enclosure is lit with a low energy bulb, but of course apart from the python, who has no artificial light, every other reptile has heat mats, thermostats, UV lights and basking spots. Eeek.

[drache]

thanks for bringing that up
I've been mulling over the same thing
I like to give some of my species basking lights
yet I know that that is probably the most wasteful kind of heat
I imagine that mats and tape are probably the most efficient

[adamanteus]

I think the most energy efficient method is provide a good ambient 'background' temperature in a well insulated reptile room. Thus minimising the need for supplementary heating.

[Sid]

James brings up a good point. My reptile room was originally an open carport. I built it in and added a window heat and air unit to control the room temp without keeping the entire house overly hot. This is the only heat source that I use and have not had any problems in three years now.

[Lori P]

LOL-- this is so funny-- my hubby has been teasing me for months, telling me I was causing our electric bill to shoot up with all these heat lamps and stuff. So I proved him wrong by showing him that last year at this time, we actually used MORE electricity than this year with the reptiles!!

[Sputnik]

Tell me how you do it, Lori, pleeeeease!

My daughter and I have been trying to convince our boys to "carbon offset" and ensure that they cut down on using electricity in other parts of the house and being more conscious about switching off lights, keep things off standby, etc.

I sadly don't have the space to have a separate reptile room, I haven't even got a room for each of my children, so have taken to sleeping on the sofa, lol. And I must say, I prefer to keep the animals in the living room where I can see them all the time.


Would anyone know which light/ heat providers are more energy efficient than others while still providing all the animals need? Fluorescent lightstrips compared to bulbs use less energy for example, don't they?

[Stefan-A]

Wooden enclosures keep the heat better, cohabitate if possible, use a single source for both light and heat, supplement lighting with LEDs if necessary.

I dunno. :D

[Sputnik]

There are drops that are supposed to eliminate the need for uv lighting, maybe that's one way to cut out at least one bulb per viv?

[adamanteus]

Stefan raises another good good point in that wooden vivs retain the heat better. Mine are wooden, illuminated with a fluorescent strip and heated from below by a cable.... but to be honest the cable rarely switches on, as the light gives enough heat in the wooden viv.

[Elliot]

I'm not sure if this would really help you at all, but you can buy heat lamps with dimmers that you can change the flow of electricity with, and you can also manage temeratures better. Just a suggestion.

[gregmonsta]

My snakes save dont cost much extra :) ... infact there is less need to turn lights on in my living room now :)

[GarterGuy]

Putting all your heating elements on timers and thermostats is very helpful, then they're only on when really necessary. I worry about the whole heated room thing, just because it doesn't really allow the herps to thermorgulate much....there's no cool and warm spots. It's proably best to at least try and keep them in a relatively "warmer" area, just so the heating elements aren't running as much. As far as giving supplements rather then lighting...not real sure about that. While you could give them the vit.D3 in the drops, you're still not exposing them to the lights which also have a psychological benefit for them as well. As described by Alan Francis on his site, garters that have full sprectrum lighting usually breed more regularily then those kept in the usual colubrid method of rack systems. Basically if you're really worried about this type of stuff, keep to just herps. that don't need a whole lot of extra heat and such. I don't keep any tropical species of snakes at all. Everything I have is temperate, so they do well with lower temps. All my heating lights and pads are completely shut off at night...which I also think is good for the snakes anyways...gives them a "rest" period like they'd have in nature. I can also brumate them during the winter and basically shut down stuff completely for months on end. Even though we want to be environmentally conscious, we also have to do what is best for our animals and I think this has to be the first consideration when thinking about what can and should be done.

Roy

[Sputnik]

Absolutely, Roy. I wouldn't want to save at the expense of my animals, I just want to make sure that I use whatever equipment is the cheapest/most energy efficient to run.
I do use timers for everything, so I don't have to worry if I ever decide to stay out longer in the evenings or sleep in in the mornings, lol.


The drops I have are these...

T-Rex Solar Drops Liquid UVB (http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=1229)

[GarterGuy]

Absolutely, Roy. I wouldn't want to save at the expense of my animals, I just want to make sure that I use whatever equipment is the cheapest/most energy efficient to run.
I do use timers for everything, so I don't have to worry if I ever decide to stay out longer in the evenings or sleep in in the mornings, lol.


The drops I have are these...

T-Rex Solar Drops Liquid UVB (http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=1229)


Yeh, they're just basically D3 supplement. The only problem is that herps that need D3 supplementation are ones that actively bask a lot. The D3 isn't the only benefit they get from doing this and if kept in poorly lit conditions they often become depressed, don't feed, don't breed, and have compromised immune systems that open them up to a host of other problems. While the drops are fine if you just don't want to get the expensive UVB bulbs, they really don't totally replace the value of the lights. Better then the lights (and more energy efficient) would be to just expose them to unfiltered direct sunlight, but this isn't always possible or practical.

[tikichick]

I use solar drops on the lizards I rescue that have symptoms of mbd, but as a supplement only. Basking bulbs are usually UVA only and that stimulates appetite, as well as providing heat. UVB light is absolutely necessary for any diurnal (active during the day) critter that requires sunlight to absorb calcium.

Here's an excellent piece on reptile lighting. I especially like knowing how much UV gets through the different housing materials:

Reptile Lighting (http://www.anapsid.org/uvtable.html)

[Snaky]

I'm not sure if this would really help you at all, but you can buy heat lamps with dimmers that you can change the flow of electricity with, and you can also manage temeratures better. Just a suggestion.
A dimmer doesn't save you energy. The dimmer itself will consume what normally the lamp consumes and so the lamp will have less electricity flowing in it, hence being less bright. So this is not a solution, it's only good to regulate the temperature.

[Stefan-A]

I'm pretty sure that none of the modern dimmers consume the energy that would otherwise be used by the lamp.

[Snaky]

It's what I've learned at school in my days. Can't say anything about the modern dimmers, don't use them and haven't investigated on it. But I can imagine that a lot of dimmers will still use the same principle, so investigate first :)

[Stefan-A]

This is the third best site ever (after thamnophis.com and wikipedia), I can't believe I forgot it existed. :)
Howstuffworks "How Dimmer Switches Work" (http://home.howstuffworks.com/dimmer-switch.htm)

[Snaky]

Thanks for the link, interesting to know :)

[drache]

about the supplements for basking species . . .
isn't the UVB needed for absorption?
if that's the case, adding supplements will do nothing without exposure to UVB

[tikichick]

The supplements are adding vitamin D3 which aids in the absorpsion of calcium. A basking species will create D3 on it's own from the UVB rays. All the supplement is really doing is assisting the process, but it is by no means a substitute for UVB lighting.

[infernalis]

Here is another clever thread worth ressurecting..


I think the most energy efficient method is provide a good ambient 'background' temperature in a well insulated reptile room. Thus minimising the need for supplementary heating.

We have a single heater keeping the room just above 80, and supplimental heat in the "tropical" cages.

The python, Limon and Chomper all need high temps.


supplement lighting with LEDs if necessary.

One cage has (Limon's) L.E.D. lighting, cheap to run, almost no heat, 12 volts (very safe) Planning on getting more.


Stefan raises another good point in that wooden vivs retain the heat better.

Chomp, Limon & Carmella are in wooden vivs, A wooden box 3 feet wide by 2 feet tall, 2 feet deep can raise up to 95 degrees F. with as little as 40 watts lamp.

[reptile3]

2 reptiles with basking light(regular household light bulb) & UVB strip light.
another reptile with light bulb
5 heating pads
another strip light

Hubby told me that my pets cost an extra $25 a month for their lights & heat.
I use timers, & thermostats.

[olive oil]

We just put in a wood burning stove and the snakies are loving it.
We are to!

[Stefan-A]

We just put in a wood burning stove and the snakies are loving it.
We are to!
Yeah, there's nothing snakes like more than the smell of wood burning. ;)

[Loren]

My reptile room is insulated very well. I try to keep it 78-82, and definietely 72-85. I have flexwatt heat tape(some thermostat controlled, some dimmer controlled) running under most of the cages. Other snakes do well just at ambient, although I am eventually hoping to have flexwatt under every cage. I have actually had colubrids lay fertile eggs with nothing but ambient temp- although I agree a hot spot is definitely recommended for gravid females.
Several of my garters are at ambient only- and still eating in january.

The only light in the room comes from the 4 basking(heat) lights and 1 flourecent (uv)that are over my desert lizards. For lizard bulbs, I use GE 45 watt R-20 flood bulbs (walmart). Just 45 watts, but they give a basking spot well over 100 degrees at 12" distance, and very little wasted heat. The circle of heat is small, so the cage doesnt overheat. The aluminum light fixtures arent even too hot to touch.

I dont personally know anything about uv drops. I dont use supplements other than occasional calcium for a few animals. I know this- I would deprive my desert lizards of uv long before I would deprive them of basking temps that are over 100.
My diurnal desert lizards like 110-115 f. With this temp, they can heat up quickly- then run around and eat and breed. With 90-100, they have to sit there and bask all day.

As for snakes- I have never given a snake special lighting of any kind(other than for heat, but I dont use bulbs for snakes anymore), and if I did, it would be for viewing pleasure only.

As for ways to save- remember, there are 2 ways to get higher temps from a bulb- you can raise the wattage- or you can raise the reptile. Get the animal closer to the bulb- just dont let them get burnt. Use a thermometer first.
And as others said- use cages that hold in the heat. You can always run down to a home improvement store and get foam sheets to wrap the back 3 sides of your tanks.

Heat mats are definitely more effecient than bulbs- but the ready-mades like zoo-med often get much hotter than needed for a snake and would be better off with a thermostat. Thats part of why I just use flexwatt (2 bucks a foot, one foot per cage) and a 4 dollar dimmer. You can run many sections hooked to one dimmer. You do need basic electricity skills to hook up flexwatt.

[gregmonsta]

I've got 12m of 100watt heatcable heating four wooden tanks and use 11watt r63 spotbulbs ... so thats 144watts which is pretty good going compared to my old setups where I was using over 300watts for heating. The bigger tank on my set up also has 100watt spot as a backup but it never runs at full power. I'm a big fan of heatcable now :D

[Loren]

I do use a section of heat cable for one rack as well.

My big power suckers are actually in my house- my chuckwallas have over 200 watts of halogens on most of the day, then I have another 5 basking bulbs running for my other lizards in the house. My only savings plan there is to start picking who's gonna stay in the collection long term.

[infernalis]

Yeah, there's nothing snakes like more than the smell of wood burning. ;)


Lets go over there and get warm...:rolleyes:

http://ti.org/Wildfire.jpg

[olive oil]

Yeah, there's nothing snakes like more than the smell of wood burning. ;)


Believe it or not it doesn't smell that bad at all. The door stays shut and the smell goes up the chimney.:)

[Stefan-A]

Believe it or not it doesn't smell that bad at all. The door stays shut and the smell goes up the chimney.:)
Oh, I didn't mean that it would smell bad, I just meant that the smell of something burning would probably be interpreted as a sign of danger.

[olive oil]

Oh, I never thought of that.

[Loren]

Oh, I didn't mean that it would smell bad, I just meant that the smell of something burning would probably be interpreted as a sign of danger.
Possibly at first, but I think they would get used to it after a while. When I lived on our dairy, I didnt think it smelled. Its gotten a bit stronger now that I'm not around it all the time.

[infernalis]

Oh, I didn't mean that it would smell bad, I just meant that the smell of something burning would probably be interpreted as a sign of danger.

In my own weird way, That was what I implied here...

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/enclosures/2391-energy-efficient-reptile-keeping-3.html#post98300

One should assume ALL wildlife would panic at the smell of smoke.

[Stefan-A]

In my own weird way, That was what I implied here...
You don't say. :D

Well, yeah. I doubt they're going to get that it's a controlled fire.

[infernalis]

You don't say. :D

Well, yeah. I doubt they're going to get that it's a controlled fire.

They will understand, as quickly as they fall in love with their owners;)

[ProXimuS]

*Bump*

I've been thinking about this lately, after realizing all the electricity I've got going in my room(two heat lamps, a fish tank filter, and light for fish tank). Any other methods any one uses? Maybe ways of heating/lighting multiple tanks with one source?


I've also been wondering, if you have something like the picture below, are you using the same amount of power as if you were to plug multiple things into multiple plugs?

8206

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I'm going to use this guys method of heating for my marcianus' adult viv and it should work out more energy efficient and beneficial for the snake.

"The method I have been using for keeping many of my snakes and lizards, particularly small species and those from fairly temperate environments like Europe, North Africa, North America and cooler regions of Asia is one I've experimented with for some time and has yielded very good results for me.

I use wooden Vivexotic vivs, and I found that when the bank of fluorescents I use (usually a Repti-Glo 10.0 for UV and a Hagen Life-Glo 2 for full spectrum "white" light, doubled up to four fluorescents for lizards) were combined with a spotlight or other heating source, the vivs very quickly overheated and I lost that valuable thermal gradient that is so important for most species.

You see, I don't go by the "specific number" way of heating a viv... many care guides state "such and such a snake needs a temperature of 30C"... this is ridiculous. Even in hot climates, reptiles find ways of escaping the heat, and they do not spend ALL their time in areas of their optimum temperature. They wake up, they move to a hot area to bask, then they start moving around to hunt, moving back into the warmth at periods to "top up" their body heat. When it gets too hot for them, they retire.

All too often I see snakes kept in vivs that are too hot, such that they are usually either to be found curled up in the water bowl or pressed against the far corner trying to escape the heat.

The way I have always heated reptiles is by providing them a gradient - they might have a hot spot higher than their preffered temperature, but this doesn't matter, because they also always have a cool side to move to, and they are free to choose the temperature they wish to bask at by simply moving backwards and forwards and finding a middle ground.

(This gradient can be hard to reproduce in RUBs which is one of the reasons I don't use them any more).

So I decided to try a little experiment with a few of my temperate snakes (some Garters and Natrix, followed by Russian Rat Snakes, Japanese Rat Snakes, Dione's Rat Snakes, small lacertid lizards and other reptiles that don't require a hot spot more than about 30C). What if I relied on the fluorescent lights in the enclosure to provide the heat as well as the light? Would that be enough for the reptiles?

As it turns out, yes.

Now before I go on, I am going to state here and now - this system ONLY works in wooden terraria, it ONLY works for temperate species that don't require high hot spots (it WILL NOT be suitable for Bearded Dragons and most agamids or iguanids, Royal Pythons, most boids... in short, anything that needs a high hot spot). Let's get this straight right here so there is no confusion later on!

What the following method WILL work for are various rat and king snakes and all sorts of other colubrids, small lizards that don't require hot spots higher than 30C (there may be some leeway here as smaller reptiles find it easier to heat up than larger ones) and many other temperate species or those from montane or otherwise relatively cool areas.

That little disclaimer out of the way, I will continue.

What I found was that, as long as the fluorescent lights were about as long as the terrarium (I use 18" tubes for 24" vivexotics, 30" tubes for 36" vivexotics and 42" tubes for 48" vivexotics) then the ambient temperature in my setups while they were on remained at about 23-25C, with the areas within 3" of the tube reaching a steady 29-31C.

What this meant was that as long as the snakes were able to get their bodies close enough to the fluorescent lights, they could make use of this heat as a "hot spot" while the rest of the setup wasn't too hot for them. Obviously this means that branches have to be used to let the snakes climb up to the light... ORRRRR.... I could give all of them a rock wall, which not only would allow the snakes to get close enough to the bulbs to utilies their gentle heat, but also modulate the temperature they basked at by allowing them to bask at different heights and levels throughout the day.

As I have posted elsewhere, I have been using this method for around two years now and am keeping and breeding a whole range of species very successfully.

It should also be noted that if the setups are stacked as mine are, then the lights from the terrarium underneath will go some way to gently warm the floor of the cage above in a manner similar to (but not as extreme as) a heat mat. This should be taken into account when providing cool areas, and was another reason for providing a rock wall - so the animals could get off the floor of the viv if they wanted to and still remain close to the bottom where the temps didn't reach more than about 23C.

This way, the animals get the full benefits of the fluorescent tubes producing both UV and bright white "sunlight" - which has the added benefit of them tending to "colour up" quite a bit) and a nice thermal gradient.

So, about eighteen months ago, I made the decision to switch over almost all of my collection to Vivexotic vivs (all except those which require a humid environment, for which I prefer to use glass setups like Exoterra). In the process, I would provide every vivarium with a natty rock wall"

[gregmonsta]

Well, I think most set-ups can be energy efficient with proper planning. All my lighting is LED based now, using 3watt LED bulbs.

My own homebuild is still heated by a single, statted 12m, 100 watt heatcable which provides heat for 4 standard, sizeable wooden enclosures (approx 4.5'/1'/1.5') and covers a third of each enclosure.

My procages (approx 4'/2'/1.5') are heated by 56 watt heatplates and these have proven very efficient. These are all lined with polystyrene backgrounds which add extra heat-retention. I also have a rocky area under each heatpanel which stores heat and this is where the probe for each thermostat is placed. This also appears to be an additional way to reduce the amount of electricity consumed. A quick glance at the moment shows several snakes using the rocky basking area with the temps at 29C and the thermostats currently switched off.

I can see how the above method could prove very efficient, but I am worried that, with the snakes having to get so close to the bulb on a regular basis, the potential for causing blindness could become a real issue.