question?

[vwsrcool]

I have had a california red spotted male for a few months now, and i just bought a pair of regular red spotted, my californian will not leave the new femal alone, he keeps humping her, wrapping arround her and wiggling uo and down on her, they arent having sex that i can see , he just continue to dry hump her like a dog on your leg. should i seperate them? he freaks out if she gets away from him, darting arround until he finds her and start humping her right away, what should i do? and why is he doing this?

[Thamnophis]

I think the best thing to do is to seperate them.
If you keep them together the female will never get any rest.

Perhaps you can give them a winterrest/hibernation.

[Cazador]

She's emitting pheromones that are driving your T.s. infernalis nuts. As long as he can smell her, he's going to want to mate. You'll end up with intergraded T.s. infernalis x T.s. concinnus babies if you don't separate them (if it's not already too late). Yet, the infernalis male will probably become a finnicky eater for a while (a month or so) after he's removed if he's not allowed to mate. You can look for a "mating plug" in/around her cloaca to confirm whether the've already bred or not, or if you have a compound microscope, you can do a cloacal swab and look for moving sperm. The "shimmer" in the light. Best,
Rick

[Cazador]

Here's another thing you can do: Give her a bath in a bowl of warm (~90F), soapy water, and save the water. Her pheromones will adhere to the soap, and a lot of them will stay in the water. It will temporarily reduce her attractiveness, ever so slightly. Next, you can sprinkle that soapy water all over yourself, like aftershave. That infernalis will find you irresistable, too :eek:! He'll be your best buddy for the next hour or so :eek:.

Actually, washing the female won't do anything toward solving the problem, but it will collect some of her pheromones. If you have a place where you're able to make a trail with the soapy water, you can play around with it. The male will generally follow it wherever you want.

[GarterGuy]

Here's another thing you can do: Give her a bath in a bowl of warm (~90F), soapy water, and save the water. Her pheromones will adhere to the soap, and a lot of them will stay in the water. It will temporarily reduce her attractiveness, ever so slightly. Next, you can sprinkle that soapy water all over yourself, like aftershave. That infernalis will find you irresistable, too :eek:! He'll be your best buddy for the next hour or so :eek:.

Actually, washing the female won't do anything toward solving the problem, but it will collect some of her pheromones. If you have a place where you're able to make a trail with the soapy water, you can play around with it. The male will generally follow it wherever you want.

I think maybe you've been playing around with snakes a bit too long!:rolleyes: LOL....that's hilarious! I've actually been thinking of trying something like that when I go to Manitoba next spring.....see if I can get a pic of me covered in garters....LOL.:D

[Cazador]

Manitoba should be a riot! I've never been there, but I bet you'll love it. Good times,
Rick

[garterking]

I have had a california red spotted male for a few months now, and i just bought a pair of regular red spotted, my californian will not leave the new femal alone, he keeps humping her, wrapping arround her and wiggling uo and down on her, they arent having sex that i can see , he just continue to dry hump her like a dog on your leg. should i seperate them? he freaks out if she gets away from him, darting arround until he finds her and start humping her right away, what should i do? and why is he doing this?

Mine started doing this about a montha go also. I've since put the male into brumation. Here's the thing thou, the male is about 34 inches long, was wild caught, and has been through a couple or more winters. The female is a spring hachling about 16 inches long, never been through a winter (which might be why she's eating like there's no tomorrow as she has never had to experience one), but there is no way she can breed at this young age. So if she's emmiting pheromones now, could that be a sign that she's going to be ready soon. (Like spring?? God help me) The poor thing was never left alone with the horn-dawg close by. LOL

Mike

[GarterGuy]

Mine started doing this about a montha go also. I've since put the male into brumation. Here's the thing thou, the male is about 34 inches long, was wild caught, and has been through a couple or more winters. The female is a spring hachling about 16 inches long, never been through a winter (which might be why she's eating like there's no tomorrow as she has never had to experience one), but there is no way she can breed at this young age. So if she's emmiting pheromones now, could that be a sign that she's going to be ready soon. (Like spring?? God help me) The poor thing was never left alone with the horn-dawg close by. LOL

Mike

Ok totally off subject here, but.......34in male??!!?? Wow...isn't that rather large for a male garter? I didn't think males got much larger than about 2ft.? Is he a T.s.parietalis? That's quite a BIG BOY!

[garterking]

Ok totally off subject here, but.......34in male??!!?? Wow...isn't that rather large for a male garter? I didn't think males got much larger than about 2ft.? Is he a T.s.parietalis? That's quite a BIG BOY!

I measured his last shed in the summer and it was really 34 inches nose to tail. I'm still a newbie with this so I'm not sure what type he is. He's in hibernation now, but when I bring him out in a couple months, I will take some pics and let the experts here tell me what kind he is. There is the other possibility that the exotic pet store screwed up when I had him probed.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I have found pet stores to not be the most knowledgeable people....definitely post some pics. 34" is long for a male, is the snake stocky or thin.....females tend to be a lot stockier.

[Cazador]

I thought you'd get some other comments about measuring sheds yesterday, so I didn't say anything. Shed skins are typically about 15% larger than the actual snake (more or less) since the skin is designed to expand between the scales after a snake eats a large meal (and to accomodate growth). One of my snakes recently shed. Her skin measured 26" long, but her body was only 22".

To get a more reliable measurement, check out the software that Sid recently introduced (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/261-snake-measuring-software.html), or gently straighten it between your hands. Just don't pull from the head/neck area since the joint connecting their vertebrae to their skull is fairly fragile. Hold them 1/2 inch or so behind the skull. If they're particularly resistant, just straighten them a bit until they tire out. Then you can straighten them the rest of the way for an accurate measurement.

** Remember that it's better not to measure your snake than to harm it if you're uncomfortable or unsure about this method. **

Even if the snake is only around 29", it's still a pretty big male.

[garterking]

I thought you'd get some other comments about measuring sheds yesterday, so I didn't say anything. Shed skins are typically about 15% larger than the actual snake (more or less) since the skin is designed to expand between the scales after a snake eats a large meal (and to accomodate growth). One of my snakes recently shed. Her skin measured 26" long, but her body was only 22".

To get a more reliable measurement, check out the software that Sid recently introduced (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/261-snake-measuring-software.html), or gently straighten it between your hands. Just don't pull from the head/neck area since the joint connecting their vertebrae to their skull is fairly fragile. Hold them 1/2 inch or so behind the skull. If they're particularly resistant, just straighten them a bit until they tire out. Then you can straighten them the rest of the way for an accurate measurement.

** Remember that it's better not to measure your snake than to harm it if you're uncomfortable or unsure about this method. **

Even if the snake is only around 29", it's still a pretty big male.

Well, this is the male I was refering to in this thread. He has shed a couple more times, but really hasn't grown much if at all. Now that people here agree that it is a male than I guess he is a good size. Have a look-ee-see http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/1134-i-suck-part-2-a.html
Mike