Multi-species housing...

[Zephyr]

What do you guys feel on multi-species housing?
I've kept similar species of plated lizards together with no problems, and they belong to the same genus. Does that mean you could keep Thamnophis garters if they are similar in feeding and behavior habits? Aside from the fact that you could have two cross-breed or cannibalize (which you would have the risk of with multi-snake housing anyways), I don't see anything else wrong with it...

[Stefan-A]

I'm not entirely against it, as long they have the same requirements and don't cause each other stress or physical harm.

[Elliot]

I don't see a problem with it as long as all of their needs are met. A good example of species that would go together well would be maritime and eastern garters since they are almost the same thing.

[Zephyr]

BTW, overall, I prefer multi-snake housing for garters. They're VERY social.

[adamanteus]

I don't see a problem with multi-species housing if, as Stefan says, the requirements are the same and the snakes are of similar size. Although personally I never do it, I couldn't really say why, I just don't. All my species and sub-species are housed separately from each other.

I don't think it's true to say Garters are very social, or even at all social. They brumate en-masse and form breeding aggregations, but then they lead solitary lives, as other snakes do.

[Zephyr]

Actually, there I have to disagree with you. Often when I go searching for garters here in MI, I either find them basking together, a few feet away, or huddled curled up under the same long when there was plenty more space underneath. Once I was looking for snakes on a rainy July day and went to grab for what I thought was one snakes, but was actually a trio consisting of 2 females and a male!

[Zephyr]

Perhaps it's just T. s. sirtalis that does this, as this is the only snake I've had this experience with... Actually, I have found northern water snakes together as well, but this was probably because it was their only safe basking spot...

[adamanteus]

I know it sounds as though I'm 'splitting hairs', and I apologise for that.... but they are only found together in such situations because the 'spot' is suitable for whatever reason. This doesn't illustrate any form of social interplay between individuals. They don't care if they're alone or there's another snake there. They just both found a good spot to bask/hide/feed or whatever.

[Lori P]

You really think so? Do you think they don't get some sort of comfort from a companion? And I'm also not arguing, just seriously asking. But I always assume all animals crave companionship. It's sad to think that my two garters and two balls aren't really "cuddling" but just taking up the same space... don't you think they enjoy the touch of their own kind??

[Zephyr]

I still find it ironic that they'd be in the exact same spot for the exact same reason. I guess you can look at it like being in school:
Any two given people can be picked out in a class, and you could say that they're friends, when in reality, they would just be in the same place because they have to. However, the might actually be friends.
Very controversial. Some one should do a study like they did with group decisions in cockroaches...

[adamanteus]

I really think so. But it isn't sad....snakes don't do sad, or happy. They do correct conditions/incorrect conditions.

[Lori P]

Sigh. Well, thanks, James, for taking all my sweet little snuggly snake thoughts and dashing them on the rocks.

Can I at least pretend they are cuddling and love each other??? :)

[Zephyr]

Heh, who knows. We could all be wrong. >>
Perhaps they're really exchanging chemical signals on where the most food is, or maybe they're "snuggling" to raise their body temps. Who knows.

[Stefan-A]

Heh, who knows. We could all be wrong. >>
No. :p


Perhaps they're really exchanging chemical signals on where the most food is, or maybe they're "snuggling" to raise their body temps. Who knows.
Maybe it's an antipredator strategy, or maybe it's just that they have the same needs. :p

[adamanteus]

Perhaps they're really exchanging chemical signals on where the most food is.

Maybe when no one's looking, they do a complex dance, like honey bees. Or maybe, when we've all gone to bed, they actually talk to each other!

"Hey, Slither, what did you think of those pinkies he gave us tonight?"

"A bit tough, I thought, Slim. I reckon he thawed them too fast. Anyway, give us a cuddle".

[Zephyr]

lol
Perhaps it's a combination of acetone, peroxide, and snake musk = "Dude it was lyke great."

[adamanteus]

a combination of acetone, peroxide, and snake musk = "Dude it was lyke great."

I might try that, Todd, instead of my usual Australian Shiraz! Good call!:D

[Zephyr]

lol
How about some cologne?
Get the lady snakes *maybe some of the guy snakes? O.o* in the mood. XD

[adamanteus]

Don't you dab cologne behind your ears though? Where would you put it on a snake?:confused:

[Zephyr]

lol
This could be a problem... Halting all our years of research! D:

[adamanteus]

We kind of side-tracked your thread here, Kyle. Sorry about that!
Back to the point, no problem with housing multiple species if their size and requirements are the same. But no real benefit from the snakes' point of view.
I guess it's a matter of personal choice. I keep all my species separate, but for no specific reason. I'm sure other people house all females of mixed species and all males of mixed species together. Whatever works for you, I guess.:)

[achoth]

What about housing an african house snake with a garter? I was told that they would eat each other if I housed them together. I've been afraid to even take them out together ever since I heard that. Is it true?

[brandon0133]

i had my corn snakes and garters and green snake in the same tank for awhile now,,,no problems

[brandon0133]

ive had my red tal boas in with my ball pythons also,,,no problems

[adamanteus]

ive had my red tal boas in with my ball pythons also,,,no problems

See, although I previously stated there isn't a problem with multi species housing, you must remember that those species must have similar environmental requirements. Boas, from South American rain forest and Royal (Ball) Pythons from the African savannah have rather different needs. I would be careful about which species you choose to house together.:)

[tikichick]

What about housing an african house snake with a garter? I was told that they would eat each other if I housed them together. I've been afraid to even take them out together ever since I heard that. Is it true?

Personally, I wouldn't chance it. They could get along just fine until one day you come home to find there's been an unfortunate accident. :eek:

Also, if one perceives the other to be a threat, it could cause stress that you may or may not notice until it's health is affected.

[jompiej]

I have 0.1 thamnophis atratus atratus and 0.0.1 Nerodia fasciata together, going great!

[brandon0133]

well the red tail is tiny,,like 1 1/2 ft long,,and the ball pythons are all around 3-4 ft,,,the red tail hangs out alone most of the time,,i did put a baby ball python about the same exsact size as the little red tail and the red tail and baby ball sleep together and hang out together all day long

[Sputnik]

I have to say I felt a little queazy at the thought of mixing corns and garters. I'm glad it's working for you, but I personally wouldn't want to chance it.
Like James my garters are mostly separated by subspecies too, though I kept the babies together and only put them into different tanks as some of them grew much faster and larger than others. My conncinus are quite big now, while the tetratanea are still very tiny. They have the company of one parientalis. I don't want them to cross breed and so will make sure they housed separately when they'd be old enough.

I would disagree with the non-social theory though. My garters always seem to interact in one way or another. They follow each other, dance together, wait for the cats by resting their heads on the door ledge then moving round comicly while the cats jump up and down, not being able to get them. Sometimes, I swear I can even hear them laughing at the daft cats! :D

[hissy100]

I don't see a problem with multi-species housing if, as Stefan says, the requirements are the same and the snakes are of similar size. Although personally I never do it, I couldn't really say why, I just don't. All my species and sub-species are housed separately from each other.

I don't think it's true to say Garters are very social, or even at all social. They brumate en-masse and form breeding aggregations, but then they lead solitary lives, as other snakes do.
Wrong, i have a pack (I don't kno what the right word for a group of snakes is) of T. Ordinoides in my garden about 7 or so, and their always basking together in the spring

[Lori P]

I dunno, James... my Pugets are always together, always touching or curled around each other. The ones I got from Reed are always together too... lying side by side or again, curled together. I think they find comfort in each other...

[Stefan-A]

My vagrans are almost never curled up together, right now they're on opposite sides of the terrarium.

My parietalis couple was almost always curled up together, but I'm prepared to blame that on the male being constantly interested in the female.

Personally, I'd like to know the reason why they choose to be in the same spot. Is it a matter of similar needs and habits bringing them together, is it an antipredator strategy, or are truly social animals?

[adamanteus]

Hey, fine. I'm not going to argue about it. If you guys want to have social snakes with an emotional need for comfort from each other, and enjoy cuddling up together, why should I complain?:rolleyes:

Ole, I think you'll find the reason you see several snakes curled together in one basking spot is because it's a good basking spot... nothing to do with social interplay.

[drache]

when I house snakes together, I attempt to provide multiple possibilities of similar quality to get their needs met
it seems that some snakes like to hang out together more than others and that preferences may change
I don't really hold with that christian idea of the sharp dividing line between man and beast such that we have all the mind and emotion and they are mere lumps of flesh driven by impulses
it's all along a continuum and I don't imagine that what they experience and how they process it, has any remote resemblance to what I experience etcetera
however I don't see why it would be impossible for them to have social inclinations any more than that ours are entirely rooted in ancient survival needs

[tikichick]

I think having the same species, same size, together is fine. My concern is only in mixing different species in the same habitat when there's a likelihood for predatory behavior. Like when you set up a fish tank, some fish can be put together safely, whereas some will eat other species, so you set it up with the most compatible types.