Dog possibly bitten by snake?? [Archive]

Lori P

12-09-2007, 08:28 AM

Hey guys-- my dog Jewel came up very sick yesterday morning-- lethargic, depressed, lame, swollen leg from the toes to the hip and a little in the abdomen. Rushed her to the vet, who diagnosed a possible snake bite (how ironic!!!). He found a very tiny puncture wound on the back of her thigh, determined she had an abcess, inserted a drain into her leg. Sent her home on abt.

She is feeling miserable, and with the leg shaved you can see a large bit of bruising. My questions are-- to those of you in my neck of the woods-- aren't most snakes hibernating now, or, have our temps been too mild (which is what the vet said)? And, any idea what kind of snake in my area could cause this?

Here's a pic-- you can see where the drain is, the puncture was above it. And of course, it may not have been a snake at all. I even wondered about a spider. Her thigh and hip area are three times their normal size, and her leg is swollen as well.

Poor girl is just feeling terrible. I'm taking her back tomorrow if she hasn't perked up; I'm wondering why he didn't give her pain meds, so I've got a call in to them.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Jewel_leg_002.jpg

Thanks guys! Send healing thoughts to poor Jewel!!!

Stefan-A

12-09-2007, 08:32 AM

Northern copperhead, maybe? Or isn't it venomous enough to cause that kind of reaction?

It's one of three venomous snakes I could find, that live in VA. The other two are the eastern cottonmouth and the timber rattlesnake.

enigma200316

12-09-2007, 08:40 AM

well I hope Jewel is feeling better soon, as for poisonous snakes your looking at Copperhead, Cottonmouth, and Timber Rattler that I know of off
hand, but I'm not sure it was a snake bite.......of course thats just my opinion............:) I'd lean more towards a Spider or something of that nature.......possibly a thorn too........

adamanteus

12-09-2007, 08:49 AM

After 24 hours I would expect much greater damage if it were a bite from a Cottonmouth or Rattler, it does look quite like a crotalid bite to me though, so maybe a Copperhead.

Of course it could just be a scratch or puncture wound that's gone septic, but the bruising makes me think not.

Lori P

12-09-2007, 08:54 AM

That's what I was thinking... it came on so suddenly. Friday morning, she was out playing with us and acting normal. Friday night, I remember thinking she was a little quiet (she went and got on the bed early and wouldn't come back out of the bedroom) and then Saturday morning, bam, huge swelling and pain. I was feeling so guilty for not noticing sooner, but thinking back, she showed no signs.

They do run the woods behind us and we've got a creek back there, plus there is a huge swamp a mile or so back. So she could have come into contact with a cranky snake. Poor girl.

And omg, the odor... I've got every candle in the house burning... lol!!!!

enigma200316

12-09-2007, 09:07 AM

Lori P

12-09-2007, 09:25 AM

Justin, yes, the vet could only find one puncture. He said the same thing; if it was a snake, it only got one fang into her.

I know we also have some huge brown spiders here.. not sure what they are. Oh, let me go look, I took some pics a while back.

Sid

12-09-2007, 09:27 AM

HI Lori,

Sorry to here about your dog. With the unseasonably warm days we have had here in the south east it is very possible She could have run across a Copperhead. They are the least toxic of the venomus snakes in your area.
Here's a link to the Virginia snake page
Snakes of Virginia (http://fwie.fw.vt.edu/VHS/snakes_of_virginia.htm)

Lori P

12-09-2007, 09:31 AM

Here's one we found early in the fall when we were cleaning up some old wood. It's on a 2 x 4 board. UGH!!!!!

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/big_damn_spider_2.JPG

Lori P

12-09-2007, 09:33 AM

Hey Sid, thanks. I did look on that page earlier, and you answered my question about them hibernating; we've had so few really cold days so far. I hate the cold, but since we still have flies and ticks out in December this year, I could go for some freezing temps!!

Elliot

12-09-2007, 09:37 AM

It might have been a copperhead, our dog got bit by one and so did our neighbor's, and it looks kind of like our neighbor's did.

Sid

12-09-2007, 09:57 AM

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 10:05 AM

looks like a black widow bite.. or even a brown widow.. ill have to look it up.. actually it looks like a brown recluse bite...

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 10:09 AM

Here's one we found early in the fall when we were cleaning up some old wood. It's on a 2 x 4 board. UGH!!!!!

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/big_damn_spider_2.JPG

thats looks like a comon house spider it wouldn't hurt you.. actually they kill brown recluses and black widows..

Lori P

12-09-2007, 10:12 AM

This one was in the house last week. Hubby took the pic just to torment me. LOL

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/big_***_spider.jpg

Lori P

12-09-2007, 10:13 AM

Hmmm, wonder why the pic did not come up?

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 10:13 AM

ok i got a pic of what a brown recluse looks on a human and it looks almost exactly like that your dog looks like.. this is his thumb day six... heres the link to it WARNING :: Brown Recluse Spider Bite Picture :: GRAPHIC (http://www.ascendedhealth.com/brown-recluse/bite-picture.htm) but this is day 6..

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q61/zoie18_2001/img_BRS_thumb_day_6.jpg

Lori P

12-09-2007, 10:15 AM

OW. That looks rough. I don't even know what a brown recluse looks like, will have to go look one up.

Lori P

12-09-2007, 10:18 AM

Ok, here's the other creept crawly that was in the house last week.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/big_brown_spider.jpg

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 10:18 AM

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q61/zoie18_2001/T025838Ajsm.jpg

it's also called a violin spider because of the violin shape on its back...

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 10:20 AM

Ok, here's the other creept crawly that was in the house last week.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/big_brown_spider.jpg

also looks like a wolf spider i can ask my spider forum and they can ID it for me..

jewel-dragons

12-09-2007, 10:26 AM

i think it's to late off the year now for a snake,all snakes have a winterrest now? i really don't know what temp. you've got now over there....

i hope for you and your dog it get well better soon. ;)

Lori P

12-09-2007, 10:26 AM

Thanks Natalie! :-) I'm trying so hard to love spiders but it isn't working too well yet!!! :)

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 10:29 AM

lol yeah i know how it is.. I have 3 spiders myself but i don't keep hot spiders.. got 2 little kids to worry about.. I know someone well know what they are.. I'll keep you posted and they are usually very fast to respond..

Lori P

12-09-2007, 10:31 AM

Kuno, this year we've had very warm temps... it is in the 60's today (not sure what that is in C). We had a few cold days last week, but only 2 nights below freezing. It always seems odd to have warm weather at Christmas!

Thank you for the well wishes!! She feels very bad. No word yet back from the vet on if I can give her a pain injection... look how sad... and she's such a sweetheart, she doesn't deserve to feel so bad!

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/Jewel_leg_003.jpg

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 10:34 AM

aww poor baby give her lots of kisses for me and tell shell be fine Natalie's on the case we'll figure this out fast....

jewel-dragons

12-09-2007, 10:50 AM

that looks bad enough... i hope the vet answers quickly as can....

i really don't know what you can do for now :S

just give her some kisses,that's the only thing you can do for now i think....

a can not imagine what it is when bitten by a poisonous animal... we have only the vipera here who is very anger for bigger animals and humans.... and live here in very low numbers.....

Lori P

12-09-2007, 11:00 AM

She says thank you Aunt Natalie!! :-)

Just heard from the vet, so she got some pain meds. Hopefully she'll have her old smile again soon.

adamanteus

12-09-2007, 01:29 PM

Ok, here's the other creept crawly that was in the house last week.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/big_brown_spider.jpg

This is just a large Wolf Spider (possibly Alopecosa fabrilis or US equivalent) Certainly it's a Lycosid. It's harmless.
I think spider bites in general develop far more slowly than has been the case with your dog.

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 03:09 PM

From my spider forum:

First spider is a fishing spider "Dolomedes sp".

Second, looks to be a some sort of wolf spider.

They also said that it's a very unlikely place for a spider to bite.. So we may or may not rule out a spider..

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 03:12 PM

Thinking out loud.. now lets see what kind of snake bite.. that can cause sickness, bruseing, swelling, abscess but not kill her?

adamanteus

12-09-2007, 03:21 PM

It's not Dolomedes, not even like it, Natalie.

Thinking out loud.. now lets see what kind of snake bite.. that can cause sickness, bruseing, swelling, abscess but not kill her?

Copperhead.

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 03:21 PM

ok now i called a guy that works with hots.. poisoness snakes.. he said there isnt any snakes out this time of year unless she dug it up.. but the posable snakes it could be that wont kill a dog but make them deathly sick is a Pygmy Rattler (if you have them in your area).. and a Copperhead...

He also said that she may have got cought in a barb wire fence... They can get tetness (spelling?) just like us..

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 03:22 PM

It's not Dolomedes, not even like it, Natalie.

Copperhead.

just what there telling me on my forum... He raises these so i would think he knows what they are lol

Elliot

12-09-2007, 03:23 PM

I'd say a copperhead then too, they don't usually kill when they bite but the area swells up.

adamanteus

12-09-2007, 03:24 PM

http://www.hlasek.com/foto/dolomedes_fimbriatus_2550.jpg

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 03:25 PM

i found this pic on yahoo pics i think it is actually now that i see it..

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q61/zoie18_2001/fishing_spider_Dolomedes_2.jpg

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 03:26 PM

there diffrent types tho lol anywho i think we ruled out spider as it is.. im putting my bet on copperhead.. im guess she had to dig it up... does she like to dig?

adamanteus

12-09-2007, 03:27 PM

i found this pic on yahoo pics i think it is actually now that i see it..

Actually what?

Stefan-A

12-09-2007, 03:27 PM

He also said that she may have got cought in a barb wire fence... They can get tetness (spelling?) just like us..
"Tetanus". :)

adamanteus

12-09-2007, 03:28 PM

Tetanus won't cause extensive bruising, like say a Copperhead bite.

Charlet_2007

12-09-2007, 03:30 PM

thanks Stefan-A.. you can be my spell checker lmao lord knows i need it lol i suck at spelling lol...

Lori P

12-09-2007, 03:51 PM

Ok, ok, stop posting spider pics already... LOL!!! Just kidding. :-)

She is vaccinated against tetanus. Not that any vaccine is fool proof, but the tetanus vax does seem to be effective. She does love to dig... and you know, with the warm weather we've had some of the copperheads could have come out of hibernation, think? It was almost 70 yesterday, 60's today.

No matter what caused it, I suppose, as long as we can get her better quick. She is still the same, did not respond to the pain meds. I'm taking her back first thing in the morning unless she gets worse tonite, then we'll have to go to the emergency vet (but my wallet truly hopes not!!). Those em. vets are sooooo wicked expensive.

She's such a stoic dog, she never yelps or shows pain. She's very dignified. For her to be this down has us both scared for her. We've had her for about 9 years... rescued her as a wee little puppy in a parking lot and just fell in love. She's a great girl. I just want her better.

adamanteus

12-09-2007, 03:54 PM

Poor Jewel. I'll be thinking about her.

Loren

12-09-2007, 04:55 PM

Hi Lori, From my understanding, dogs actually often survive fairly bad rattlesnake/venomous snake bites. They get all swollen and go through alot of pain, but can live through alot more than humans. I know of a few people that have had their dogs bitten by northern pacific rattlers, which are pretty potent, and although they were very swollen, and "sick as dogs", they survived.
Like the others have said, the dog would have almost had to extract one from its hibernating spot to find one at this time of year, but anything is possible. Then again- 70 degrees could bring one out for a bit. Could water levels have come up down by the ol' creek and flooded one out? or any construction/digging going on in the area?

anji1971

12-09-2007, 10:14 PM

Been out all evening, and just getting a chance to catch up on things!
Lori, I hope Jewel is going to be alright, poor thing.............I'll be reading to see what happens with her. Good luck!

Snaky

12-10-2007, 03:22 AM

Lori, I'm also hoping Jewel will become all better again soon!!

Lori P

12-10-2007, 08:30 AM

She is worse this morning. Kept her in the bed with us last night but she felt cool to me even with the heat up in the bedroom... took her in first thing and they have hospitalized her on fluids and iv antibiotics and antibacterials, her body temperature was very low so she is in a heated cage. The whole area of the bruising is cold and he says it will most likely slough off. They are running bloodwork to check her kidneys and liver and everything.

I am so scared. Please, whatever it is you do, send prayers or well wishes or good karma or light a candle or spin around three times, but please do it for Jewel. She is one of the kindest and most loving souls I've ever met. We've lost so many this year, I can't lose her too.

Stefan-A

12-10-2007, 08:52 AM

If I thought any of it worked, I'd do it, Lori. :(

I spinned around four times, take it as a gesture of sympathy.

mikm

12-10-2007, 09:03 AM

Hello Lori ... Could you please list everything the Vet has prescribed for your dog from the start ??? Do you know what her body temp is ???

thx,

garterchick

12-10-2007, 09:54 AM

hi lori,
you and jewel certainly have my best wishes, as hard as that may be, try to stay positive. your situation is one i'm always worried about for our dog and cats, living in the country has many advantages but also some draw-backs, venomous snakes and spiders being one of them, cayotes another.
may your dog get well and your wallet recover

enigma200316

12-10-2007, 12:17 PM

we're pulling for ya Jewel, please fight has hard as you can and will pray...

Lulu Bennett

12-10-2007, 04:47 PM

Lori, my heart goes out to you and Jewel and the rest of the family.
it must be hard for you all at the moment but i wish you all the best and i hope it works out for you.
All my love
Louise
xxx

EdgyExoticReptiles

12-10-2007, 06:31 PM

if hope she ends up ok lori, do you still want curious on wed? or are you to busy caring/thinking about your doggy?

krystalirelan@southslope.

12-10-2007, 07:22 PM

good luck Lori and Jewel! it will be a long road but I have faith that she will pull thru. with a mommy like you she has alot going for her!

MoJo

12-10-2007, 08:16 PM

I'm just reading this now but my thoughts are with you and Jewel. She looks like a wonderful beautiful dog. Please keep us updated.

Joanna

tikichick

12-11-2007, 09:53 AM

My prayers are with yall!!

adamanteus

12-11-2007, 02:12 PM

Any news on Jewel, Lori?:(

NikkiSixx

12-11-2007, 07:36 PM

Im sorry about ur dog! i hope she/he gets better!:)

drache

12-12-2007, 08:38 AM

Lori
how is Jewel?
I've not been around much the past few days, so I just got around to this
I feel so sorry for poor Jewel and her humans
I'm sending good wishes for a speedy recovery

adamanteus

12-12-2007, 01:18 PM

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but poor Jewel passed away. I have heard from Lori, who is obviously distraught. She has been receiving tremendous support from one of our members, whom I shall not name... suffice it to say she is one very special lady.

Charlet_2007

12-12-2007, 01:42 PM

I'm am SOOOOOOOOO sorry.. I know what it's like to lose a member of the family.. Poor Jewel... At lest she lived her day out in comfort as much as possible.. I'll be praying for you comfort thu this hard time...

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q61/zoie18_2001/Jewel_leg_003.jpg

Loren

12-12-2007, 01:54 PM

Sorry for you loss Lori,
Your freind, Loren.

Stefan-A

12-12-2007, 02:11 PM

I'm really sorry about your loss, Lori. :(

garterchick

12-12-2007, 02:58 PM

i'm so sorry for your loss, lori. i'm sure there aren't any words to ease your pain, we are all thinking of you.

drache

12-12-2007, 03:14 PM

Oh Lori
I am so sorry
what an awful loss

anji1971

12-12-2007, 03:19 PM

Lori, I am so saddened by this news. I will have my whole family say a special prayer for you. Hugs.......:(

enigma200316

12-12-2007, 03:21 PM

Lori, I am truly sorry for your loss.......:(
I know what its like,but I also know it will be a hard time for you as it is very hard when a friend,and family member passes. please stay strong,
and know you all are in are thoughts and prayers....

your friend,
Justin

Zephyr

12-12-2007, 03:55 PM

I'm so sorry! I hope that you find comfort in prayer Lori!

MoJo

12-12-2007, 08:15 PM

I am so sorry for you loss.

Joanna

stonyloam

12-13-2007, 01:07 AM

Lori: So sorry to hear about Jewel. I know what you are going through, we lost out sweet little Springer Lucy to cancer this morning. The house sure is a lot emptier without them. Guess it is all part of the deal, we know that we will outlive them, and all we can do is give them a good life in return for the happiness that they give us. Our thoughts are with you.

Stefan-A

12-13-2007, 01:22 AM

Sorry to hear about your loss too, Terry.

Snaky

12-13-2007, 02:57 AM

Both Terry and Lori, so sad to hear such bad news. I'm so sorry for your losses...

krystalirelan@southslope.

12-13-2007, 06:53 AM

Lori and Terry- so sorry to hear of the loss of your friends. our thoughts are with you both. we have given our own pups alot of extra hugs and kisses this morning.

We'll keep you in our prayers.

Lori P

12-13-2007, 07:28 AM

Oh Terry... I am so sorry. Hugs to you and your family. Jewel and Lucy are probably looking down on us wondering what all the fuss is about... they are both healed, free, and happy. I hope they tumble around today and have a ball.

Now Stefan, let it be. If I don't believe they go to a better plane and that I will someday see all those lost, I will loose my mind for sure. And there's really not much left to loose.

Lori P

12-13-2007, 07:28 AM

Natalie, THANK YOU.

Charlet_2007

12-13-2007, 11:41 AM

You quite welcome.. :)

salzar

12-13-2007, 02:25 PM

as well as me . so sorry for your loss. I do 1/10 scale models mostly horses but breyer molding comp. has some dog models on there web site and if you would permit me to do a model of your dog for your rememberance I would be honared to do this for your familey .. lmk bye
michelle

Lori P

12-13-2007, 02:38 PM

Omg Michelle... you have NO idea how much that would mean to us... I would put it next to her urn.

One of the ladies on my horse group does the breyer models and she just blows my mind with her talent. Love to see yours too!!!!! Do you participate in the model shows?

ssssnakeluvr

12-13-2007, 03:48 PM

Sorry for your loss!!! It's hard losing a beloved pet like that.....at work when we pick up someone's pet that passed away, I have the shelter staff send a sympathy card and a copy of the Rainbow Bridge...very neat thing!!

http://www.petloss.com/poems/maingrp/rbowx.gifRainbow Bridge http://www.petloss.com/poems/maingrp/rbowx.gif
Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.
There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.
There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.
The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Author unknown...