is Pine bedding okay??

[Purplegrrl666]

Hello everyone,
I was wondering if pine bedding *shavings* would be ok in my garter cage?? I'm just super-low on money right now and I can't really buy other stuff, will it as least work for the time being?

Thank you!
~Carolyn~

[Sid]

Pine shaving contain oils that are harmful to the Garters respiritoy system. Over a period of time it can kill them. I would opt for paper until I could find something else that's harmless. I don't know how much exposure to the pine would be safe.

[Stefan-A]

Wouldn't recommend it. The resin in pine trees can, at least in theory, cause serious health problems for reptiles, including respiratory and neurological problems.

If I remember correctly.

[adamanteus]

Sound advice. Best to use aspen, if that's the kind of substrate you're after.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

you can always use paper towls

[adamanteus]

Good point, Reed. All my young snakes are on paper towels. My adults are on slate floors.

[Lulu Bennett]

am i right im believing that cat litter is ok to use just not when feeding?

[Stefan-A]

Cat litter might be too absorbent, might cause skin problems. Maybe.

[salzar]

cat litter has properties in it that make it clump and clay cat litter is better , but the dust is not too good, I have used cat litter in the past for my lizards and it was okay but the new stuff with all the fragrents and additives I would worry a bit about!!
the paper towle thing is great not pretty but clean up is a snap!!
bye
michelle

[Cazador]

I'd be a little concerned about the dust particles from cat litter, too. Since their heads are so close to the substrate, they're constantly inhaling whatever is on/in their substrate. Anything with the potential to disturb their single lung is off limits in my vivaria.

Rick

[Lulu Bennett]

i will stick to using newspaper for now then, used to use paper towels but was going through then to easily and costing more than newspaper lol

[drache]

newspaper is fine
I use that for some of my messier animals a lot
I find it unattractive and will root through the paper to make sure the pages on top are not too busy (business and real estate pages tend to be good, obits okay)
I'm looking for a shredder that will shred newsprint without clogging
I have a bunch of cheap paper the movers gave me for wrapping stuff and I burned my shredder motor because the stuff kept clogging the blades
it makes really great bedding for the babies though
my vet mentioned shredded newspaper, so there must be shredders that can handle it
anyway
after the initial investment - completely free

[Stefan-A]

And I'm still searching for the ideal bedding. :D

Newspaper is otherwise fine, but not very absorbent, it's ugly and slippery.
Paper towels are absorbent, slightly better looking than newspaper, but still slippery.
My babies are using a kind of "industrial" paper towels, which is somewhere between newspaper and ordinary household paper towels.
Peat is otherwise nice, but the dust is a (minor) concern and it sticks to food items.
Dry leaves are good looking and won't stick to food items, but they don't absorb anything.
Bark is good looking and won't stick to food, but won't absorb anything and is an impaction just waiting to happen.

Anybody try wood pellets? My sister tested it in her kids' guinea pig cages, but found it a bit too expensive for that purpose.

I just did a week-long experiment with peat and the vagrans babies. When they first were introduced to it, they didn't have a clue how to move around in it. :D It looked really funny when they tried the same method as on paper towels. They quickly got the hang of it though.

[krystalirelan@southslope.]

in the vivs we have not converted into terririums we use an astro turf kind of thing. my hubbys work had a bunch they were going to toss so we cut it to fit and melted the edges so it won't unravel. we have several for each and can take out the old and toss in a new and hose the soiled down and let dry!

[Loren]

I keep young snakes on paper towels until they are well started, since it is easier to feed them, and I am more concerned about impaction with small and newly hatched snakes. I also keep newly aquired snakes on paper towels so I can better observe for mites or other health issues.
I keep larger snakes on either aspen or fir tree bark, depending on what the humidity needs are, the ventilation of the cage, and what look I want. The aspen is very dry(better for rack systems with low ventilation) and allows for burrowing and hiding, the fir tree bark takes well to misting and looks natural (works well in aquariums/terrariums).
I buy the fir tree bark from the hardware store(Orchard supply) sold under the name "orchid bark", but I think its the same type as zoo meds repti bark.

[Charlet_2007]

i got me a paper shredder and used newspaper and shredded it up not very costly that way and its great for the smell and such

[drache]

btw
if you do any shipping of fragile stuff - shredded paper makes better padding than bubble wrap and it's less damaging to the environment

[tikichick]

Would reptile carpet be another option? Nothing to burrow in or under, but I could see using it with a few piles of moss and rock or wood hides might be a good looking solution. I'm using aspen, though I'm monitoring feeding to make sure none of it is accidentally ingested.

[adamanteus]

I think 'reptile carpet' should be just fine.:)

[anji1971]

I switched over to aspen recently, and I really like it! The snakes love to burrow in it, and since I use a separate tub to feed in, I don't have to worry about them ingesting it. Plus it's much cheaper than the ReptiBark I used before!!;)

[tikichick]

I think I'll start feeding in a separate tub. I've got 6 checkered babies and 1 in particular is smaller and thinner than the rest and I'm concerned that it's not eating. When you put yours in the feeding tub, do you put all of them in at once? Or one at a time?

[anji1971]

I only have one garter at the moment, and my other is a Dekay's snake, so I just do them separately. I think if you have more than one you could probably put the good eaters in as small groups, but I would feed the little one separate so you can make sure he's getting enough.
I just use a plastic dishpan from the dollar store as a feeding tub-- its about 5-6 inches high, so it keeps them focused on the food, and I know when they're done because they start trying to crawl out over the side!!

[tikichick]

Will do! Thanks!

[anji1971]

Your welcome!! Hope to hear that the little one is fattening up nicely soon!;)

[tikichick]

Update on the littlest one... It's not eating :( I've tried putting it in a tub on it's own with minnows, then with pieces of trout and salmon, and nada. It won't eat.

Should I try to force feed it? It definitely needs to eat something, it's skinny and now 1/3 rd the size of its siblings.

It's head is about the size of the fingernail on my pinkie finger. If I do try to force feed, any suggestions on getting it's mouth open safely?

[Lori P]

The only experience I have is with the king snake baby, and I used my fingernail to pry open her mouth a wee bit the one time we put a mouse tail in her mouth. I only had to open her mouth a wee bit to get the thin end of the tail in. I think any thin, blunt edge instrument would work as long as you are gentle...

Good luck!!!!

[Loren]

Yeah, pretty much what Lori said. Sometimes you can get snakes to open their mouths in aggression if you muck with them alittle, but I dont see that working on a tiny garter. Just be careful and patient. If you can get the food in partway and very slowly and gently release some of the pressure- it may start to swallow on its own.

[tikichick]

Ok, thanks yall. I'll give it a whirl. I may use one of those little plastic dental floss y shaped thingies if I can't get it's mouth open with a fingernail. I'll let you know how it goes :)

[Lori P]

Since this was a bedding thread-- I have a bedding question-- I put the 2 mice on aspen bedding because I had it here for the snakes-- is that ok?? It only just occurred to me that it may not be ideal for some reason...

[tikichick]

You're housing the mice on aspen? That's perfect.

My apologies for jackin' the thread! :o

[Lori P]

Oh no, jack away, I just happened to read the title and it reminded me to ask!! :-) I'm thinking the aspen may get pricey for the mice eventually so may switch to pine later on... we'll see how the odor goes.

[tikichick]

I have a friend who raises feeder rats and mice and she told me pine and cedar should be avoided for housing feeders because of the toxicity to snakes.

[tikichick]

Well that was almost as fun as threading a needle :P

Took numerous tries and he peed on me, lol, but the little guy finally swallowed a minnow, whew!

When I should force him to eat again?

[drache]

congrats on getting something in him
depending on how much of a meal that was for him, I'd either skip one day or two
and I'd still see whether his appetite got whetted and he'll take the next one on his own
good luck

[anji1971]

Glad to hear it worked! Good luck with getting him to continue eating!:)

[Lori P]

Laura, congrats on getting it down him!! I would say, wait and make sure it stays down... so give it a couple days. Good job!!!

And thanks for the reminder on the pine shavings-- will keep the mice on aspen!!!!

[Loren]

I raise all my feeder rodents on pine bedding from walmart. 6 bucks for 4 cubic feet, compared to 15 bucks for that much aspen at the cheapest I have found it. havent had any problems.

[tikichick]

Thanks for the advice yall :) I'll feed him again in a couple days. He usually burrows and hides all day. Today he's been out and about more than usual, yay!

[infernalis]

I won't say where, But I received snakes shipped in deli cups with pine shavings in it.

Been using it for the mice, same reason as Loren, but for my snakes I stick with products intended for reptiles.

During periods of financial crisis, Gobs of grass from the lawn, soil, newspaper and paper towels have all been used with no ill effects.

[keelerskiddiecare]

Has anyone here ever use coconut substrate?? That is what we are using for Mrs. Wiggles and for the Corn and the King. Mrs. Wiggles has been using the coconut substrate now ever since we got her approx. 2 yrs ago and there have not seemed to be any ill effect. It drys out nice but also will hold moisture well. You do have to be careful not to over wet it as it can stay saturated (potential wetness problems) but if you spray it down reasonably, enough to provide adequate moisture it will dry up almost daily.

[keelerskiddiecare]

Also forgot to say that they can burrow in it when they want, which Mrs. Wiggles and the Corn both love to do (just to clarify not the corn and Mrs. Wiggles are not in the same house).