Unknown Garter Snake . i need help .....

[ClosedCasket88]

i was recently at a local pet shop that my buddy works at and in one of the tanks filled with baby water snakes there was a noticatly differnt snake in the mix of about 2 or three dozen water snakes . this looks like a garter/ribbon mixed with something else
i knwo garters can be born without a stripe or the two side stripes but this ones noticably differnt, in underneath and head is that like a black racer , very differnt scales from any garter ive found in here, my buddy at the pet shop said it was a local someone braught in and didnt know whut it was. its all black ontop and the head as well with only one stripe very bright green/kinda whiteish , that i very sharp and not unlike those that are usualy found in this area , its definately not mixed with a ribbon although it has ribbonsnake like features .its underneather is verydark solidly with darkblueish racer like color to it from tail to head with no design just flat plaint shaded color .

i live in the philladelphia area of pennsylvania .ive been catching snakes n such aroudn here and evrywere else i go my whole life ,the only other wierd garter ive ever caught was blue striped instead of the usual black as well as a white stripe instead of the usualy back. im very familiar with almost every species in northamerica and still cant pinpoint what this would be

any suggestions ?

[CrazyHedgehog]

Picture would be good!

[Cazador]

Hi closedcasket, and welcome aboard. There are some folks on this forum with an amazing talent for identifying each of the different garter snake species, subspecies, and morphs, but most of them need a picture to work with. Here's a link that tells you how to post pictures. Take care,
Rick

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/site-feedback-suggestions-questions/181-posting-pictures.html

P.S. Happy Thanksgiving.

[GarterGuy]

Yes a pic would indeed help. Just a note for your pet shop friend though, if this is a snake that someone caught and brought in, it is illegal in PA to sell native species or subspecies as the case may be. Not to be a buggar on this, but I ran a petstore for several years and selling native wildlife can come with some very hefty fines.

[ClosedCasket88]

http://i15.tinypic.com/2ekrj7o.jpg
sorry this is the only camera(camera phone ) i have and its not that good
also im wondering what woul dbe a good type to breed with it , i was thinkin a red striped or a blue striped maybee. and also, does anyone have or knwo anyone with nice garters around the east coast or philly area preferably . is this genetic? is it worth breeding , im gonna keep him no matter what anyway , he immediately got my attention when i seen him , hes very healthy too, hes eatin worms up n he chewed up a few salamanders with no problem, hes probobly a yearling. judging by size.

[ssssnakeluvr]

hmmmm.....when you get a chance, maybe some better pics would help. Santa Cruz garters commonly have the one stripe down the back. Scott Felzer breeds them, could be and escapee. If its a local snake, would be a nice find....I am always looking to increase my stock of unusual garters. :D

[ClosedCasket88]

replying to garterguy-
i actualy got the snake for free becuase it was native n illigal , good on my half i guess.but yes your right
im gona work on getting better pictures tomorrow . im determined for more insight as to what this is and if it is genetic . keep in mind the rest of it besides the stripe is almost jet black . no signs of checkering type typical garter pattern or anything ilke a baby blackrat wich looks like a darker grey rat when its young . and also keep in mind that this is a city area were i live and theres nothing but storeria dekayi's and thamnophis and occasional water snake .
ive noticed this snake spends most of its time in the trees n vines i h ave in his enclosure

[ClosedCasket88]

http://i9.tinypic.com/2hz7604.jpg
http://i15.tinypic.com/4fyms0m.jpg
any better?
i keep looking up unusual garters for the past few days and i still havnt seen anything like it . ita def a garter, its got a red tongue with black tip
but whut kind?

[Stefan-A]

Google for Thamnophis atratus and tell us if it's even close.

[ClosedCasket88]

in away it does but its definately not a santa cruz, i wil rule that out as a definate.
besides the yellow lateral stripe evrything is pitch black with almost no pattern or checker markings. his face has now yellow or anything in it also , its jet black into a bluish hue around his lips with no black lines above his lips just blueish faded into black , same with stomach .
you tihnk i could sit him on my scanner to get a underside picture ?
please help me folks, i will not leave anyone alone til i find out something about this lil creature .

[Cazador]

Hey Closedcasket,

The best thing you could do is to ask one of your friends to come over with their digital camera and take a good photo. Unfortunately, your cell phone just doesn't have the resolution that's needed. Also, your snake has a "dorsal stripe." The "lateral stripes" are on the sides. Best of luck,
Rick

[GarterGuy]

Would definitely like to see a better pic, but I'd bet it's an Eastern (T.s.sirtalis). I've seen Easterns with no stripes, two stripes and one stripe....all black, some spots or totally checkered. They're a incredibely variable subspecies, even within a certain area. As far as it's colour being genetic.....yeh, it is. All patterns are, but will it breed true? Well you'd have to get another of the EXACT same snake, different sex of course, and even then it still may not carry over into the offspring...there's quite a bit to snake genetics...check out Scott Feltzer's garter snake site, he goes into it a bit. Also it seems that garter snakes all tend to be born kind of looking a lot alike, and it's not until they mature that their colours really start to show. Anyways, good luck with it and we'll be waiting for the pics.
---Roy

[Daniel]

Hi,

the pictures aren´t really good ones, but my first idea was, this snake could be an atratus.

But the color of the dorsal stripe and the missing green chin-color lead me to the idea it could be an ordinoides.

Just my two cents. Better pictures would be great and make identifying this snake much more easier.

Best wishes,

Daniel

[ssssnakeluvr]

Digital photos would help...the blurry ones look like atratus. Unless you know who caught it, and where, it could be an escaped pet. Pet stores aren't known for hiring the most knowledgeable people. If it is an eastern, its nice.... You would have to breed it to one of the opposite sex, generally all babies woud be het for the single stripe, unless the other happened to have that gene also. Then you would have to breed a pair of the babies to each other or the one of the babies back to the parent of the opoposite sex. You would then get a bunch of the babies with one stripe.

[ClosedCasket88]

http://i15.tinypic.com/4hvg515.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/3yy8h77.jpg

this is best as i can do for now . a scanner :eek:
the dorsal stripe looks a little darker than it realy is, its very bright
note the blueish hue on the stomach

if it is a different phase eastern , its definately different than any if caught in this area. never had any with bright yellow stripes and as dark as this one is . an dive never had one with a mouth n stomach like this one

[ssssnakeluvr]

Nice pics...Looks a lot more like an atratus now....