baby lust

[drache]

yesterday i got to spend some time with my babies and it made me want more babies - in the future
right now I kind of got enough
but I am looking at spring
mind you - I haven't started anyone on a brumation track, except that I didn't feed my red-sideds last feeding day

I also had time to spend with Sammy - my favourite
even though I got Sammy a boyfriend this year, I hadn't planned on putting her into brumation because of her recent surgery
yesterday, when I hung out with her, I realized that I want Sammy's babies more than any others
here's a couple of pics I took yesterday (I'm at work, so it's links instead of pics):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2385/2023927017_4bbac0db7d_b.jpg

the next one has a close-up of her scar

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2045/2023903857_80eae19964_b.jpg

other than that scar, she seems to be in fine shape
I would not want to risk anything, but perhaps I could do a short brumation with her early next year?
any opinions/advice welcome

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

well i think as long as shes healthy and recovered fully than you can do a full brumation but if your not sure you could always do something like 2 months, o and what type of garter is that?, Parietalis? its cute

[drache]

T.e. vagrans - wandering garter

[Stefan-A]

Are you sure that's a vagrans? Sort of looks more like a T. sirtalis parietalis or T. sirtalis sirtalis.

[RZL36]

I would go with parietalis. I can see some red in the second pic.

[enigma200316]

I don't think its a Parietalis or sirtalis, I have both and it doesn't look like either..........if it is, its a rare one!!!!!!!:)

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

im positive thats a parietalis i recognize that pattern

T.e. vagrans - wandering garter

[Stefan-A]

Justin, both sirtalis and parietalis come in a wide range of colors and patterns and I've seen pictures of both subspecies, that have been very similar to that one. It could pass for a T. elegans elegans, but I've never seen one with red before.

Then there's the number of supralabials. T. sirtalis has 7, but T. elegans should have 8 or rarely 7. Even if it's not conclusive, it does in my opinion improve the odds that it's not an elegans.

Anyway, we need the opinion of more experienced people. :D

[ssssnakeluvr]

I would say that's a t sirtalis sirtalis....minor red and orange is common on them... doesn't quite look like vagrans. :D

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

it looks a lot like parietalis that has faded from age or like a northern one that didnt have that much red to start out with i didnt know that sirtalis could have red also it looks alot like an older version of my northern red-sided

I would say that's a t sirtalis sirtalis....minor red and orange is common on them... doesn't quite look like vagrans. :D

[adamanteus]

I would have said parietalis..... but then I've never had a vagrans, so maybe you should disregard my opinion!:rolleyes:

[drache]

I emailed Scott, to ask him about the red.
When I got Sammy, I got her along with two parietalis, and even the duller looking one has far more red than Sammy. In addition, all my parietalis have very distinct yellow dorsal stripes. Sammy's dorsal stripe is neither distinct nor yellow.
my vet was mumbling something about different population strains - wish I'd paid more attention then.

[ssssnakeluvr]

where was the snake found at.....it shows you in new york...if it was found in that area, most definitely sirtalis

[drache]

she wasn't found
she was captive bred
so that part doesn't really apply
I'm starting to become a little stressed over this over this
it's like an identity crisis

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

i swear it looks exactly like my red-sided just faded a little bit

[ssssnakeluvr]

well...no need to get stressed...:eek: i would say its an eastern....doesn't look like a parietalis to me. lots of easterns have small to large amounts of red or orange. I have many photos stored here of various garters...lots of pics of easterns with red and orange.

[RZL36]

I think it is parietalis.
Check out this photo.

http://www.minaxtarantulas.net/galleri/bilder/narcisse_5.jpg


The easterns I've seen carry the red stronger on the bottom scales and they usually got some checkered patterning (sans melanistic).

Plus my easterns from the same clutch are pretty different looking. One is Mr. Blue and one is Mr. Brown.

[Loren]

Just a thought. Even if it is captive bred, perhaps it is a cross of 2 species? Sometimes people keep numorous species together.

[anji1971]

Whatever type of garter Sammy may be, she is definitely a beauty! Hope you have lots of her babies one day Rhea!

[drache]

that does sound a lot like most of you don't think she could be a T.e.vagrans
hm
I'm not entirely sure why, but it is a little upsetting I guess
I keep pulling out books
Scott emailed me back
from the pic, he's agreeing with everybody here, but he's gonna pull his records and see where she came from
so - more later

[ssssnakeluvr]

I have caught numerous vagrans over the last...well, most of my live!!! I have never seen red on any vagrans. I do have an orange vagrans, but it covers the entire snake.

[drache]

well
she's an eastern and my identity crisis is over
but I certainly don't have a mate for her
(or for her intended boyfriend)
oh and she's Het melanistic from a melanistic bred to a double het snow-66% possible het snow/albino
if that isn't a mouthful
so if I got her a melanistic boyfriend, they could have some melanistic babies, right?
someday before her dotage
well it solves my current dilemma quite neatly
there's no good reason to have her brumate

[ssssnakeluvr]

if the male melanistic's gene line is the same as hers, you will definitely get some melanistics. Is she originally from Scott Felzer?? if so, you can get a melanistic from him and have melanistic babies.

[zooplan]

Never heard about different melanistic allels.

[ssssnakeluvr]

well, me either....I guess it's possible....most of the melanistics I know of came from Scott...

[zooplan]

Also I´ve never heard about different melanistic genes in sirtalis although there are bigger numbers of pure black specimens in some populations.

[ssssnakeluvr]

interesting...most melanistics I have heard of are from the Ohio area....haven't heard of any from anywhere else.....

[zooplan]

The descrition of their main range published over here is around the "Lake Erie", that means the same.