Sick snake, brumation, or...?

[Garty]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum.

Here's my problem: I have a wild-caught garter that hasn't eaten basically since capture (around 6 weeks ago). No worms, no fish (live or fillets), no grubs, nothing despite daily attempts. Under tank heater in 10 gal tank provides a basking spot at around 87F, and the air temp in my house is around 69-70F. Snake was very active up until the last week or so, now either hides in the hide-box or lays listlessly on the heat spot (mostly at night).

Here's my thoughts: First, what a goof I am for atttempting this:mad:. My daughter caught the animal, and I had a wild caught garter in grad school that thrived for years, so I thought it'd be OK. I live in WA, so after a few weeks of trying to get it to feed, it was too late/cold out to attempt a release. I'm hoping that due to the late capture date, the animal had already gone off its feed on its own in preparation for brumation and if I bring it down to brumation temp (is 55F in my unheated basement OK or do I need to go lower?) it will awake in a few months happy and healthy, but I'm kind of skeptical and am afraid that I've already messed up beyond recovery. I'm trying to find a vet that can help, but in the meantime, any ideas?

P.S. - Please don't flame, I already feel dumb enough...

[Cazador]

Hi Garty,

Welcome to the forum. You won't get flamed here; nobody does it. Anyway, it sounds like you already know the answer. Your formerly wild garter has already primed itself for brumation, and it sounds like you're going to have to put it down for a while. The basement at 55F will be fine, but I'd only put it down for a maximum of 6-8 weeks at that temperature. That's about the maximum temp that you'd want, though. Be sure to put a blanket or something over its enclosure to keep it dark, and be sure to provide water but not food. This should reset its appetite when you warm it back up.

There are other options for long-term captives, but they're also hit and miss. I think your recently wild-caught snake is a different story, but others may have different opinions and advise. Best of luck,

Rick

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard, Garty. :)

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Garty :)
There are threads and articles on brumation @ this form :D
But it sounds like you all ready doing fine :cool:
As for flames this is probably the most you will get unless you got a match :eek:

[Sid]

Welcome to the forum. I agree with Rick's advise. I would go ahead and burmate the Garter.

[Lori P]

Welcome, Garty! Keep us posted on your snake's progress!!

[drache]

nice to meet you Garty
I think that's one lucky garter, to have been caught by a kid with such a conscientious parent
how old is your daughter?
good luck getting the snake through this hump
and please keep us posted

[enigma200316]

Welcome and I'd go with the advise and thought that you already had....
If possible we really like pics here, so post some when you can......:D

[anji1971]

Hello, and welcome! Best of luck with the snake, and no worries about anyone giving you a hard time. This is the nicest forum in the world!:)

[Loren]

Hi Garty, I pretty much agree with most of the rest of the posts in brumating the snake. The only thing is I would only do it is it seems to be in good health and good body condition. Check on it throughout brumation, if it starts losing body condition I would take him/her out early and get it on some heat and try to feed it. Also, I've already said this on another thread, but one of my garters will only eat from her hidebox, and only if I do not disturb her.

[Garty]

Thanks, all, for the kind comments. Here's the update. I turned the heat pad off this morning, and thought I'd leave Garty - my daughter's name for the snake - at room temp (around 68-70F) for another day, then move him/her to the warmer portion of our basement (~64F)for two days, and then move to the unheated back room (closer to 56F after more careful measurement).

Questions:

Is 56F too warm? I'm assuming that it will get colder in there as our outside temps (currently highs around 50F) drop, so it'll probably get below 55F fairly soon.

How often should I check on Garty and what am I looking for?

Any other advice to lessen the stress of the process? And what about the snake too? :D

Scott

PS - Drache, my girl is 4 1/2, and she's really watching me on this one, so I hope we get it right!

[Cazador]

Hi Scott,

Though 56 will work, just realize that you're on the upper end of the normal brumation temperature range. The main thing is to give them a stable temperature... no sudden changes.

As long as "Garty" is in good health now, it shouldn't lose more than 0.1 oz during brumation, and all you should need to do is clean the water dish and change the water every three weeks or so. If you notice the snake losing weight or becoming overly skinny, then take it out of brumation. This process happens all the time in nature all by itself, so try not to be too active around the snake while it's down. Hope this helps,

Rick

[Garty]

Well, here's an update. So far so good... temp in the cage has been a pretty steady 51-52F and our snake appears healthy. One curious thing, though: at some time in the last three weeks Garty shed (a perfect shed from tip to tail). Is this normal during brumation? Is it anything to worry about?

[Sid]

Well, here's an update. So far so good... temp in the cage has been a pretty steady 51-52F and our snake appears healthy. One curious thing, though: at some time in the last three weeks Garty shed (a perfect shed from tip to tail). Is this normal during brumation? Is it anything to worry about?
Nothing to worry about. A shed during burmation is not uncommon.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

thats actually good that he shed fine some snakes dont shed well in brumation

[Snaky]

Like said, if the shed is in 1 piece, than there's nothing to worry about :)

[ssssnakeluvr]

If you have no plans on breeding...a good month brumation should be good to stimulate appetite. I have garters that either aren't big enough for breeding or don't have a mate for them that go off feed in the fall. I put them down for a month and bring them up. with the temp you are keeping him at, I'd keep a good eye on him...thats a little warmer than I would brumate at. I have found garters out and about occasionally with temps here in the low 60s and upper 50s....not very often but they are definitely more cold tolerant than most snakes. I would brumate a little colder if possible and for a month. after the month, start warming him up. after about a week you can try feeding again and he should start eating. forget the grubs, garters don't eat insects. they eat worms, slugs, fish, amphibians, and rodents.

[Garty]

If you have no plans on breeding...a good month brumation should be good to stimulate appetite. I have garters that either aren't big enough for breeding or don't have a mate for them that go off feed in the fall. I put them down for a month and bring them up. with the temp you are keeping him at, I'd keep a good eye on him...thats a little warmer than I would brumate at. I have found garters out and about occasionally with temps here in the low 60s and upper 50s....not very often but they are definitely more cold tolerant than most snakes. I would brumate a little colder if possible and for a month. after the month, start warming him up. after about a week you can try feeding again and he should start eating. forget the grubs, garters don't eat insects. they eat worms, slugs, fish, amphibians, and rodents.

Sorry ssssnakeluvr, 50 is about as low as I've been able to get him. Since it's been about 6 weeks now (so far so good), is it the consensus of the group that I should start warming him up or should I wait until closer to spring? Will our short NW photoperiod mess him up if I don't have full-spectrum lighting? With it not being worm season here, if I do bring him up what's my best shot at getting him to eat?

Thanks again everyone! :)

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

i would do at least 8 weeks i think that should work

Sorry ssssnakeluvr, 50 is about as low as I've been able to get him. Since it's been about 6 weeks now (so far so good), is it the consensus of the group that I should start warming him up or should I wait until closer to spring? Will our short NW photoperiod mess him up if I don't have full-spectrum lighting? With it not being worm season here, if I do bring him up what's my best shot at getting him to eat?

Thanks again everyone! :)

[Thamnophis]

Hello Garty, welcome here...

To make sure everyting is safe you coulc give the snake a brumation of 3 or 4 weeks max. In such a short period there is hardly any danger.

[hissy100]

Hi Garty welcome to the fourm, where in washington do you live (eastren or westren)? I might know a little bit about your problem

[Garty]

Western WA

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Scott :)

[tikichick]

Howdy from Texas :D

[Garty]

OK... an update. Garty's been brumating for three months now, and it seems like he may be losing some weight (I don't have a scale, just guesstimating). Looks like it's probably time to bring him back up to temp and see how things go. His brumation temperature has been a pretty consistent 51F, and he had a complete shed about a month into it.

So... how fast should I bring his temp up? I moved him today to the next coolest location I have, which will probably be in the high 50's (I'll have a better idea tomorrow, when the cage and thermometer equilabrate). How long there, and then what?

Also, is our NW WA natural photoperiod (still short!) going to cause problems? Should I match it with his artificial light or what? And at what point should I re-introduce light during warming (he's still covered at this point)?

Thanks!