Halloween Trick or Treat?

[Bay_area]

I guess it is how you look @ it. I got a call today that someone up in the Berkeley hills had a bunch of snakes in their garage & wanted someone to get them out of there for them. So I call the person & he said there was a bunch of baby snakes in the garage yesterday & would like to have me look it over to see if they are still there because he is a little frightened to go back in there now. The person lived up, up, up above where Cal Bears football stadiums is, @ the very top of the hill.

This is what I found in the garage


baby rattlesnake #1
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/IMG_1423.jpg

#2
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/IMG_1419.jpg

#3
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/IMG_1417.jpg

#4
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/IMG_1414.jpg

#5
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/IMG_1412.jpg

The mother rattler, makes 6 total
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/IMG_1409.jpg

So I say trick for him & treat for me...LOL!

[adamanteus]

Nice haul, Jerry. Will you keep any of them?

[Bay_area]

Maybe #3, Al Wolf from reptile rescue will pick them up next week.

[enigma200316]

WOW!!! they are nice, what kind are they?:)

[zooplan]

nice performance
is it normal to have clutches so late in the year?

[Snaky]

They look very nice:)

[drache]

nice bunch
it's a good thing they called you and not somebody who might have killed them

[Lori P]

Oh wow. Is momma protecting her babies in that last pic, or are snakes kind of like, hey, you're on your own kids....???

Good job on recovering them safely, and keep us posted!!!

[drache]

Oh wow. Is momma protecting her babies in that last pic, or are snakes kind of like, hey, you're on your own kids....???

most snakes are more the "you're on your own, kids" types, but there are some species that bestow some care and protection upon their offspring
I just at the moment can't remember which ones, even though I just read about one of these species (something venomous) just a couple of days ago
I am so tired right now I keep feeling like I'm gonna burst into tears any moment for no reason
and I'm at work, and you guys are the only thing keeping me from keeling over

[RZL36]

What are those? oreganus oreganus? Certainly a treat.

[Bay_area]

nice performance
is it normal to have clutches so late in the year?

Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes, C. organus, usually have their clutch in late September in the wild. However, I guess some of them do not read the book that says that is when they are to have babies:p The ones I keep @ home generally give birth between June & July. One note, a rattlesnake can store the sperm for up to 5 years. I have had rattlesnakes that have not been with a male for 2 years give birth:confused:. I keep my adults seperate now because I do not want to produce anymore rattlesnakes, but still had babies this year. A friend of mine has a rattlesnake that has given birth during burmation & just after burmation.

Rattlesnakes usually "den" together & will return to the same den each year for burmation. This female must of got seperated due to pregnancy. Al Wolf, with Sonoma Reptile Rescue, will probly take these ones out & release them @ known dens if no one adopts them.

pic of mine giving birth a couple of years ago
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/DSC00778.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/DSC00780.jpg

the babes!
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/DSC00776.jpg

[Lori P]

Rhea, too much birthday partying?? :-) Or too much trickle-treating?? Wake up, wake up, it's a GORGEOUS day here in Va... the sun is chirping, the birds are shining... how about in NYC??

[RZL36]

I'm right across the bay in Jersey. It is really nice. Not too hot, not too cold. Sun shining. Perfect day to "work" from home.

[anji1971]

I am so tired right now I keep feeling like I'm gonna burst into tears any moment for no reason
and I'm at work, and you guys are the only thing keeping me from keeling over

Rhea, you poor dear!!! It does sound as though you over-celebrated slightly last night....... take a nice long nap when you get home......:)

[quote=Lori P;31532]....the sun is chirping, the birds are shining...

Lori, it sounds like you may have been up a bit too late last night, too.....!!!!:D

Yes, I finally figured out the multi-quote thing, too! Slowly but surely.......;)

[anji1971]

By the way, those rattlers are pretty neat!! The babies look so funny with their itty-bitty rattles!! But I'm glad you had to deal with them and not me.....YIKES!!!;)

[Lori P]

Oh, lol, silly me, I forgot to comment on the pics!! Those pics of the momma giving birth are AMAZING!!!!! Thanks so much for sharing them!! I printed them out and put them in my boss's inbox (the boss that has "snake issues"); LOL, he's gonna be soooooo annoyed! :D

[drache]

Rhea, you poor dear!!! It does sound as though you over-celebrated slightly last night....... take a nice long nap when you get home......:)

celebrate what?
I haven't celebrated my birthday since I left Germany
Halloween - remember?
I did enjoy my new neighbourhood"s Halloween displays and costumes
Mikhaila made a ravishing vampire
because of a make-up crisis, we ran really late and I don't have pics
Jeff took us to Sushi after, but by then I was too tired to have much of an appetite
I must remember to re-schedule my birthday next year

oops
I just realized - this is the rattlesnake rescue thread
rattlers do protect their eggs and give their young a bit of a head start, I think

[RZL36]

Crotalus babies do hang around for a few days. Not sure if it has any pedagogical purposes, but it is really interesting. Does anyone know of other species that do this?

[Lori P]

pedagogical

Oooooh GOOD WORD! I like, I use!! :-)

[adamanteus]

Certain Cobras 'seem' to protect their young for a short time....they certainly guard their eggs fiercely. I have experienced this first hand.

Rhea, Rattlers don't lay eggs, they're live-bearing.

I think (but don't really know) that young Rattlers may remain around the mother for protection, but this is merely a bi-product of the mother protecting herself, rather than any kind of maternal (or pedagogical:D, excellent word, Rich) instinct.

[Stefan-A]

I remember reading an article on rattlers a while back. It seems that the mother actually did actively protect the young, apparently "herding" them for a while after they are born.

[RZL36]

Thanks guys. The ability to use words like that cost me tens of thousands of dollars :(

James, did you ever keep pallida? I really like those things. If I didn't live in New Jersey and had adequate elapid training, I would have a colony of those guys to be reintroduced into their native New Jersey;)

Stefan, I remember something to that degree too.

[Stefan-A]

I think it was something about protecting them from the heat and not from predators. I really should look it up again.

[adamanteus]

Rich, I had a group of three young Red Spitters for a very short while (just a couple of weeks), they were truely beautiful creatures. N. nivea was the most interesting/entertaining/scary Cobra I ever had. I kept one for about 18 months and never relaxed with it in the house!

[RZL36]

Capes are too much. Super venomous and agile. Might as well keep dendroaspis. Too scary for my liking. Would rather be bit by a shark.

[adamanteus]

Capes are too much. Super venomous and agile. Might as well keep dendroaspis. Too scary for my liking. Would rather be bit by a shark.

You're right, N. nivea are fearsome. Masters of the multiple strike too!
Ironically, N. pallida is the one species that is easily obtainable in the UK...the zoos are overrun with them. I would only have to ask and I could have some tomorrow. Of course these days, with a child in the house, I have no venomous at all. Maybe when she grows up?

[drache]

Rhea, Rattlers don't lay eggs, they're live-bearing.

Oops again
thanks for clearing that up
I read too much at once - it all gets jumbled up in my mind

[Stefan-A]

Anything that will chase you across the room is too much for me. :D Wouldn't consider any "true" venomous snakes at this point, but I know I'll eventually give them a try. Speaking of Dendroaspis and sharks, that's exactly what D. polylepis' head reminds me of; the head of a great white. :D

[adamanteus]

that's exactly what D. polylepis' head reminds me of; the head of a great white. :D

Yeah! it's that blank, black eye! Scary stuff!
When I get back into venomous again (and I will one day) it will be only vipers, I'm too old and slow (and wise!) for Elapids now. I want to keep Calloselasma rhodostoma again and Deinagkistrodon acutus.

[RZL36]

...and then moves out? I know if my kids are anything like me (don't have any), they are gonna be way too curious for me to keep hots. I want move out of state and build a barn so I can keep some before the child bug bites. I really don't want anything too serious, but I would like to keep all of the agkistrodon complex (from cantils to copperheads).

[RZL36]

Oh Chinese Copperheads. Lovely snakes. Rot the flesh off the bone.

I agree, elapids are just too quick and aggressive for the most part. Vipers love to surprise you though.

[Stefan-A]

...and then moves out? I know if my kids are anything like me (don't have any), they are gonna be way too curious for me to keep hots. I want move out of state and build a barn so I can keep some before the child bug bites. I really don't want anything too serious, but I would like to keep all of the agkistrodon complex (from cantils to copperheads).
Agkistrodon and Vipera for me. ;)

[anji1971]

I think I'll just stick with garters, if it's alright with everyone............... call me crazy, but I just don't relish the idea of a pet that can kill me if I startle it!!!;)

[adamanteus]

Oh Chinese Copperheads.

You mean Calloselasma? we call them Malayan Pit Vipers over here. Just regional nomenclature variations I guess. I have kept (and bred) them before. They are dangerous but very easy to deal with. Interestingly, an egg layer, even though they are classified as part of the Agkistrodon complex.

[adamanteus]

No...you meant Deinagkistrodon! I never heard it called that before. Sharp Nosed Viper or Hundred Pacer, we would call it.

[RZL36]

Yeah, sometimes snorkel-nosed viper too. In the US they are Chinese Copperheads, b/c they look like our coppers.

[adamanteus]

Yeah, I see the similarity to Copperheads. I believe there's some place in Germany that breed them in large numbers, to produce venom for the medical industry.

[Stefan-A]

I think I'll just stick with garters, if it's alright with everyone............... call me crazy, but I just don't relish the idea of a pet that can kill me if I startle it!!!;)
Yeah, I'm certainly not going to give up keeping garters if I ever start keeping real venomous snakes. ;) :D

Fortunately, you know to stay away from the pointy end of a venomous snake. ;)

[anji1971]

Well I know to stay away from the wrong end, but it's the speed at which that end can find you that worries me!! Have any of you guys ever been bitten????????

[adamanteus]

No, not me. Well, not by a venomous snake anyway. Loads of Garter bites though!:D

[anji1971]

I think it's safe to assume most of us have been bitten by a garter! I'm just curious as to how those of you who keep venomous stay safe at the same time.
They are beautiful but deadly creatures, and I have a certain degree of admiration for those who aren't scared out of their minds by them!!;)

[adamanteus]

It is wisest to remain scared of them. Complacency kills. I never (well, rarely) handled my venomous snakes unless absolutely necessary. I always used hooks.

[anji1971]

Ohhh, so even if you keep venomous snakes, you're scared of them too!! So are you guys brave, or foolish???:p:p

[adamanteus]

Personally I never kept them as 'pets'. All the venomous species I kept were brought to me by the RSPCA, Environmental Health, HM Customs, police etc. I would never condemn anyone who chose to keep them though, as long as their motives were sound and safety precautions were in place.

[enigma200316]

I think it's safe to assume most of us have been bitten by a garter! I'm just curious as to how those of you who keep venomous stay safe at the same time.
They are beautiful but deadly creatures, and I have a certain degree of admiration for those who aren't scared out of their minds by them!!;)

I've never so far have been bit by a snake, and as for venomus snakes, I wouldn't feel safe enough to grab one, but maybe if I had tongs or something I don't really know if I'd try anyway............:D

[Bay_area]

Ohhh, so even if you keep venomous snakes, you're scared of them too!! So are you guys brave, or foolish???:p:p


I fear nothing! I respect them! I do not think it is about being brave or foolish. It does have to do with years of experience & wisdom. I never advise anyone to get into hots. However, if someone has the passion to work with them, I tell them to learn as much as they can about them before they own them. It is not even an age thing. I know people that @ the age of 16 are better with hots than some, so called adults:rolleyes:


Besides, Mark 16:18 says,"they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all..." LOL! do not flame me, I just love saying that verse when people ask me:p




I am holding a gravid Speckled Rattlesnake, kids don't try this @ home
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/IMG_0677.jpg

[enigma200316]

Beautiful snake,but you can keep it...........:)

[adamanteus]

I've always admired mitchellii, although I never had the chance to keep one. They are very pretty.

[RZL36]

Q's:

Do you keep atrox?
Are you allowed to own non-native hots (to the state) in CA?

[Bay_area]

Q's:

Do you keep atrox?
Are you allowed to own non-native hots (to the state) in CA?


Only allowed to keep CA natives. I do have a pair of C. atrox...one is a blonde...LOL
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/IMG_0892.jpg

[adamanteus]

Very nice atrox, Jerry. Do you specialize in Rattlers? They seem to crop up in your posts quite often. My personal favourite, and one I have kept long-term is adamanteus (hence the screen name). I have kept several others, but the Eastern is 'the daddy'!

[RZL36]

I recently saw a huge albino adamanteus at Hamburg. Really, really scary (in a good way). I love buzzers so much.

My favorite is basilicus, but it could be durissius (very pretty)or horridus (the only native rattler to my state) on another day.

Jerry, that albino atrox is a beauty. I'm not even a huge albinism fan (I hate that movie Powder), but for some reason, I love albino rattlesnakes. The reason probably is you can see their definition better. Really nice snakes. Love seeing crotalid pictures. Someone bring on the bothrops

[adamanteus]

Someone bring on the bothrops

Rich, don't get me started on Bothrops! Or more specifically Bothriopsis and Bothriechis, I love 'em! Also Trimeresurus. We could start a whole other forum!:D What about Atheris? My wish list just gets bigger!

[RZL36]

Oh man, do I love bush vipers.
Especially those without a specific antivenom:D.

[RZL36]

Habus scare the hell out of me though. I really gotta chill though. Every time I get into this, I immediately start thinking about moving to Pennsylvania and starting a crotalid zoo.

[Lori P]

Sigh... leave it to me to notice not the gorgeous yellow snake first, but that fact that she is in a Toblerone box.... LOLOL!!!!

[adamanteus]

It's a well known fact that a Rattlers' staple diet is triangular chocolate. I thought you would have known that, Lori!:rolleyes:

[Lori P]

Livin' and learnin', James. Livin' and learnin'. :-) :-) Does it have to be German triangular chocolate or are American rattler's not so picky? LOL

[anji1971]

Well now, if I can share chocolate with a snake, then bring it on!!!!!!!!:D:D

BTW, thanks to those of you who shared some info about working with the venomous snakes; interesting, but I think I'll leave them to you to take care of!;)

[RZL36]

Well buzztails only like fine chocolates from Europe. Ironically they hate American chocolate.

That is why they are so cranky. It's some sort of sugar deficiency. Feed them some chocolate and you can free handle them like a kingsnake.

[anji1971]

Well it just so happens that I like fine Belgian chocolate, so ..........does anyone have a spare rattler around for me to bond with?????????:p:p

[RZL36]

Would you by chance know if you can keep hots in Canada? Or is it specific to province?

[anji1971]

I haven't the foggiest, but if I can get up the ambition, I'll (gulp) research it, and let you know.;) Somehow, I highly doubt it's allowed. I know here in Windsor, any exotic pet is not allowed, even corns and kings, not that people all follow that I'm sure....

[Bay_area]

Very nice atrox, Jerry. Do you specialize in Rattlers? They seem to crop up in your posts quite often. My personal favourite, and one I have kept long-term is adamanteus (hence the screen name). I have kept several others, but the Eastern is 'the daddy'!

I have alot of snakes, but I must say, I have always enjoyed rattlers. From the time I was in the 5th grade(mid '70's) I spent alot of time out looking for snakes @ the creek. My mother was okay with me catching herps & bringing them home, except rattlers. She told me I was not allowed to mess with them. I found a baby that summer & kept it in the loft above the garage. It grew fast & after a few sheds it had enough rattles on it to make a buzz. My mother was doing the laundry one day when she heard something making noise above where she was sorting out the laundry. She climbed up the ladder & my little secret was out! When I got home, she whipped me with a "hot wheels" track & made me let it go. Anyhow, I have always been fasinated with rattlers.
Hope you enjoy the story & thanks to all the nice comments.

BTW, I do love Easterns! I had one back when my collection was not quite legal & even considered moving @ one time just to keep it. The wife wouldn't go for it:(

[adamanteus]

she whipped me with a "hot wheels" track & made me let it go.

Haha! Brilliant!! Mothers seem to instinctively know what will hurt!:D
I kept two Easterns for a few years, they were lovely.

[RZL36]

James, what were you feeding your easterns? Were they getting rabbits? There is nothing like seeing that.

I feed f/t, but if I kept anything front fanged I would have to give it live treats every now and again. The miracle of venom, you know. It just blows my mind how powerful that stuff is.

I had a rear fanged Asian vine snake that took about an hour to kill an anole. Very boring stuff.

[adamanteus]

I always used rats, but real big ones! I never used live food, but as I would warm the rat to body temperature the Rattler would often think it was live and strike anyway. Very impressive to witness close to!

[RZL36]

I could imagine how impressive it must be. You must've been using some very large rats. Did they hook well? Very interested in individual crotalus temperaments.

[adamanteus]

My Easterns were actually very calm, steady snakes, most of the time. Easy to hook in and out of the viv (except that they are pretty heavy on the end of a hook!). But once they caught scent of food they changed completely! They could move surprisingly quickly and the strike was lightning fast!

An interesting and peculiar little thing..... they hated the smell of 'CK one' (the aftershave), it would set them off coiling and buzzing, you could here them down at the bottom of the garden!:eek:

Miss them. There is a (pretty crappy) photo of one of them on a thread somewhere...or check my gallery.

[adamanteus]

Actually, it was in my 'private' album, so I'll re-post it.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//541/medium/McGregor.jpg

Sorry it's such poor quality.

[RZL36]

AWWWW. That thing is adorable and the picture is fine. I'm infinitely jealous. Nice size. Male or female?

[adamanteus]

That's 'McGregor', a male. I rarely name my snakes, for him I made an exception.

[Stefan-A]

Why him and why "McGregor"? :D

[adamanteus]

Him, because he was the 'pinnacle' of my snake keeping experience. McGregor.... don't really know, it just suited him.:rolleyes:

[Bay_area]

Nice one adamanteus! I see lunch is waiting @ the front of the cage.:rolleyes:

Mine did not have a great disposition. I thought it was going to get me for sure one day:eek: I could tell when it was hungry, so I would "thump" a live rat & throw it in. If it was going to eat, it would strike the rat. Otherwise, if it wasn't hungry, it wouldn't do anything, & I would pull the rat out to give to someone else. He would rarly eat in front of me. Usually waited til I left the room.

Only pic I could find of her
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/IMG_0590.jpg

[adamanteus]

She's a real beauty, Jerry.:D I wish I had more photos of my snakes from years ago. I'm sure I took a lot more but they're all gone now, lost or given away!

[Stefan-A]

Him, because he was the 'pinnacle' of my snake keeping experience. McGregor.... don't really know, it just suited him.:rolleyes:I think it's a good name for a rattler. :)

[adamanteus]

I think it's a good name for a rattler. :)


Thankyou. It kind of 'fits' somehow.... don't you think?:D

[Stefan-A]

It absolutely fits, there's something about it that makes sense. :D It's definitely a nice "hard" name for something with a foul attitude (at least according to their reputation) and an arsenal to match. :D

[adamanteus]

McGregor was the last of my venomous snakes to go, I was reluctant to part with him. I still have a piece of his rattle that broke off one time.

I rattle it when I miss him. I'm kidding, of course!!:D

[jeffkenn]

I live in the Desert so I see a lot of snakes too... more than I want to though.

[jeffkenn]

ya...I'll say...

[RZL36]

If I ever get one, I'll probably name it Mr. Tickles. That's my favorite rattler name (in that stupid ironic way that I love so much).

[Bay_area]

My albino C. atrox, Western Diamondback name is Stanley. From the '72 movie...
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c306/norcalsnakemaster/stanley.jpg

[adamanteus]

I like it! I haven't seen the film, but I like it!

[Bay_area]

I like it! I haven't seen the film, but I like it!

When I was 10, I thought it was the best movie that came out! Well, I saw it recently, what can I say:rolleyes:

[drache]

Well, I saw it recently, what can I say:rolleyes:

lol - that's happened to me
Harold and Maude has held up well though