winter to my snakes

[zooplan]

This is my very Spartan set up to brumate my snakes:
http://www.zooplan.net/images/brumation%20set%20up.jpg
all snakes are off feed for more than two weeks
tomorrow they´ll have to move

[brandon0133]

why do people do this and is it basically letting them hibernate?

[zooplan]

brumating is to set the biological clock back to start and will support the production of sperm to the males.
This is my refrigerator for brumating, the "in" temperature is in the room, "out" is within and will go down to 10°C (50°F) during the next weeks.
http://www.zooplan.net/images/hibernaculum.jpg

[reptileparadise]

Very nice frig for brumation!

[zooplan]

before my snakes go down to the cellar each has to be weighted on the scales
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/waage1.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/waage2.jpg

[brandon0133]

man thats hardcore,,lol,,putting them in a refridge,,lol,,, u must breed the snakes i take it

[reptileparadise]

Very nice! I planned on weighing the snakes this year as well. Could you post snake weight and age around here (or drop me an PM...) I'm always interested in those kind of things!

[florian]

I have brought my snakes into cellar on saturday. So i am sitting in my room don´t know what to look at. Ok there is my university stuff, but...
It is the first time i burmate my snakes and it is quite exciting for me.

[Lulu Bennett]

this will be my first year burmating my snakes so i am a bit worried. i dont have scales to weigh them, does that matter? i am guessing it is just to make sure they are not loosing to much weight? i will be putting mine in my garrage i just need to check the temp in there just so i know it will be ok. is it 50f it needs to be? is that all the time or is there a diff temp day and night? if so then what is it? lol thanks xxxx

[reptileparadise]

weighing is just something I do for 'fun'. Never done it before, and all my snakes survived brumation so far!

I keep them at 'outdoor' temps. Slightly colder at night then during the day.
But I never let them freeze! Usually around 7 to 10 celcius. At night aroud 4 tot 5...

[ssssnakeluvr]

mine will be heading for the garage for their brumation next week!!!!!

[brandon0133]

do u have to do that to make them mate? cause it looks like mines mating right now

[zooplan]

Lots of garters mate some less breed without hibernation, but if you are planing to breed it´s better to burmate the snakes.
If you just want to let it happen or not you don´t need to burmate them at all.

[Thamnophis]

I am planning to weigh them too this year. If I do, I will place the info here.

@ Brandon0133 - Hibernation (brumation) is a normal part of the year-cycle for many reptiles and amphibians. That is a good reason to do this for your Thamnophis.

[enigma200316]

as mine are babies they won't get a winter nap this year......more time to come up with the plan for next year......:)

[brandon0133]

how old do they have to be to breed? my two big ones are around 3 1/2 feet long,,im taking it that there adults,,

[adamanteus]

I will be brumating most of my snakes this year, even the babies. I stopped feeding the T. marcianus a couple of weeks ago, but this morning I found them 'connected' in a special way!:D So I might not brumate these two now!

[enigma200316]

I will be brumating most of my snakes this year, even the babies. I stopped feeding the T. marcianus a couple of weeks ago, but this morning I found them 'connected' in a special way!:D So I might not brumate these two now!



you never know what could happen, good luck with that...........:)

[Lulu Bennett]

james congrats lol mine have been fooling but i have not seen the connection lol i hope it will work out for you and get alot of lil sprogs slithering around lol
can i reserve 1.1 please :D

[adamanteus]

If it works out, Lulu, you can be first on the list.:)

[Lulu Bennett]

are they your normals or albinos?

can't wait :D:D:D

[adamanteus]

Normals, Lulu. I don't have any albinos.

[zooplan]

I will be brumating most of my snakes this year, even the babies. I stopped feeding the T. marcianus a couple of weeks ago, but this morning I found them 'connected' in a special way!:D So I might not brumate these two now!
Although you could start burmating them right now, the female should store the sperm until spring, you would only have to look for very constant temperature.

[adamanteus]

I thought about it, Udo..... but I think I'll just keep them both warm and active right through.

[zooplan]

That might be the safer way



anyway

[adamanteus]

That might be the safer way anyway

Indeed. My thoughts exactly. :)

[zooplan]

tomorrow morning I will put the first boxes to the refrigerator,
then its time for a new photo entry to this thread

[enigma200316]

tomorrow morning I will put the first boxes to the refrigerator,
then its time for a new photo entry to this thread


can't wait, you know how we all love pics here..............:)

[brandon0133]

what temp do u sit the fridge on to burmate them? ok just checked back on the first screen and seen it,,sorry,,lol

[zooplan]

winter is a boring time
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/hibernation.jpg
some more days and my enclosures will be empty

[brandon0133]

do u put them in water and then in there,,,looks like water in the bottom of the bowls,,

[zooplan]

There is a bowl with water in each box,
The bedding is dry.
Some garters like to lie in the water for day or maybe weeks during hibernation.

[brandon0133]

wow...cool i did not know that,,,so during hibernation they will wake up and do stuff then go back to sleep?

[drache]

I don't know that they necessarily sleep in the same way as humans experience sleep
I think of it as a sort of trance state - but what do I know?
there have been reports of garters being out in the snow to catch some rays, or whatever their business is
also, researchers have found that they even change location during brumation although they don't know how common that is
clearly it's not so much like what the bears do

[brandon0133]

i learn something new everyday

[zooplan]

thats what I do too
life long learning;)

[zooplan]

yesterday I saw the fisrt snake taking a bath in my hibernation frigde
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/winterbad.jpg

[Lori P]

A refreshing dip in the icy waters! Do they still look for food, Udo, when in brumation? Or does their appetite slow way down too?

[zooplan]

I´ve never tried to feed my snake during hibernation but they had only very little weight loss in this time.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/albinohib.jpg

[Lori P]

I guess the whole point is to avoid feeding. I suppose after a bit when their metabolism slows down they aren't even hungry.

Udo, and all of our other German members, my mom, aunt and grandma are in Germany now for two weeks visiting relatives. So if you see them, hug them for me!!! LOL

[zooplan]

Yes, Germany is very small.:D
Where do they go?

[Lori P]

LOL!! They are going to Waldorf, where my grandma is from, and to Frankfurt; and they are planning a trip to Darmstadt and... I can't remember where else. I told them all to eat one desert a day for me... hope I don't gain too much weight... lol!!!!!

[zooplan]

That should be Walldorf in Hessen near the place where Martin Hallmen lives ;-)
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/frigdefilled.jpg

My frigde is filled up now only very few places left.
The rest of my snakes have to wait a little longer for their winter hollyday:D

[Lori P]

Yes! Waldorf in Hessen!! :-) That's it.

Wow, your fridge looks great! Now when do you bring them back out??

[zooplan]

Hi Sjoerd;
this list is special dedicated to you:D

Zwerg (1,0 T.s.parietalis 2005) 23 Gramm
Paul (1,0 T.s.parietalis 2005) 49 Gramm
Het (1,0 T.s.parietalis 2004) 49 Gramm
Rotbäckchen (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2003) 239 Gramm
Ruth (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2002) 158 Gramm
pos het (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2004) 114 Gramm
pos het (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2004) 212 Gramm
Hetwig (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2004) 186 Gramm
het amel (0,1 T.radix 2006) 96 Gramm
het amel (0,1 T.radix 2006) 55 Gramm
het amel (1,0 T.radix 2006) 36 Gramm
Amel (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2007) 24 Gramm
Inga (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2007) 19 Gramm
pos het(1,0 T.s.parietalis 2007) 23 Gramm
pos het(1,0 T.s.parietalis 2004) 45 Gramm
*(1,0 T.radix 2006) 19 Gramm
*(1,0 T.radix 2006) 24 Gramm
*(1,0 T.radix 2006) 33 Gramm
*(0,1 T.e.vagrans 2005) 85 Gramm
*(1,0 T.a.atratus 2005) 54 Gramm
*(1,0 T.a.atratus 2006) 32 Gramm

[reptileparadise]

Really interesting to see this!


pos het (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2004) 114 Gramm
pos het (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2004) 212 Gramm
Wow, thats quite a difference!


Rotbäckchen (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2003) 239 Gramm
Ruth (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2002) 158 Gramm

And so is this!
Could you explain the differences (did one of them become ill somewhere in life? Did you house them differently? or is one of them just a bad eater? )

Nice to know your weights aren't much different then mine.
Thanks Udo!

[zooplan]

pos het (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2004) 114 Gramm
pos het (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2004) 212 Gramm
Hetwig (0,1 T.s.parietalis 2004) 186 Gramm

These three are sisters, all three were ill several times while growing up but one was the worst eater as well.
The difference between Ruth and Rotbäckchen may be caused by differences in maintenance and age.
Hope we can study your list soon too. ;-)

[zooplan]

The temperature in the frigde is down now.
All snakes are still moving and bathing sometimes.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/winter2007.jpg

[Lori P]

Udo, I think I can hear his little teeth chattering! LOL

[zooplan]

I hope their teeth will not grow like Mordecais:D
His teeth might cause earthquakes by chattering:eek:

[zooplan]

Two friends asked me to hibernate their garters too:
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/IMG_4817.JPG
so they are waiting at about 57°F for a place in the frigde, that is down to 49°F

[anji1971]

Udo, I hope there aren't too many of your friends who need help hibernating their snakes, because it looks like you may need a few more fridges!!!:)

[zooplan]

no more than this:D
all places are layed out
but until this winter my cellar was never as cold as now
there must be an open window in another room

[Cazador]

Udo,

Will 49F (9.4C) be your final temperature?

Rick

[zooplan]

Yes,
because I have to burmate some of the southern specis as well, I don´t like to go any risk by turning it down more.

[Cazador]

Good thinking, Udo, and how long will you brumate them? Just curious how other people do it.

[zooplan]

I have one box with well grown offspring of 2007 that will be warmed up after 4 weeks. The rest will stay for 6 to 8 week in the frigde.
Before and after the frigde they have to stay one or two week in the cellar. This is a quiet short term hibernation but enough I think.

[zooplan]

This is the box, I have the closest look on:
http://www.zooplan.net/images/amelhib.jpg
These will become warmed up next weekend.
Then I hope they will eat with enormous apetite again and grow well until spring.

[reptileparadise]

Very nice! '07 ones?

By the way, any chance you're selling some albino or het. albino offspring next year?

[zooplan]

of course, I can not be sure about that, but...
I will try to mate all my hets, possible hets and amelanistic specimens next year.
The amelanistic males CB07 form Scott Felzer are growing well now.
One has shed yesterday and the skin is 30cm/12" long.
Last measured weight was 18 gram for both together.
Maybe I´m able to give them a short hibernation in January and then put them to the girls to see what will happen.

[zooplan]

I had to use the time while my snakes are down in the cellar for a clean up of my whole set up
http://www.zooplan.net/images/wintercleanup07.jpg
and I had to finish last night because the first specimens will be warmed up soon:D

[Lulu Bennett]

lol that looks like a mamouth job.
and i thought cleaning my 4 tanks was hard work lol

[anji1971]

Nice setup! Must take a while to clean out all those!

[zooplan]

I´ve never counted hours, but it was about 1 1/2 only for the final glas cleaning.:D

[zooplan]

http://www.zooplan.net/images/threefromthefrigde.jpg

[Ameivaboy]

Here's my brumation set ups,
Each "cage" contains about 5 inches of "care fresh" that is lightly misted and a humid hide spot (as care fresh can be very drying") and water dish that is big enough for the snakes to soak.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/Ameivaboy/DSC02926.jpg

then I stick those on my enclosed balcony which is now my "cold room"
The daytime temps are a little bit higher than I would prefer but it's still getting colder here so that will fix it's self.
I havent decided what all is going out there but for now it's
1.1 Puget sound garters
1.1 OR red Spots
1.1 western hognose
I may add more later

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/Ameivaboy/DSC02929.jpg


and as for weights
Puget male - 23 grams
Puget Female - 71 Grams
Red Spot male - 47 grams
Red Spot female - 77 grams

[zooplan]

Interessting set up, I would be afraid the the waterbowl will be filled up with bedding soon.
Is it right: 62°F and 44% humidity?
Is the measuring from day or night time?

[Ameivaboy]

The water bowls being filled up is a minor concern for me, I have pushed the water bowls to the front and used clear containers so I can keep an eye on water level and debris getting in there without having to disturb anything, I like to have the substrate they can burrow deep into for colder nights. The Temp/humidity is right though the humidity inside each container is higher along with the humid hides) That pictures was taken late afternoon. It's still getting cooler here so the temps will drop a bit more.

[zooplan]

What kind of bedding do you use in those humid hides?

[Thamnophis]

Most of my snakes are hibernating. Some are going cold in a month or so.
I weighed them before I "put them on ice".

http://gallery.dierenparadijs.be/data/500/winterslaap_thamnophis_2007.jpg


This are the hibernationboxes...

http://gallery.dierenparadijs.be/data/500/medium/winterslaap_thamnophis_2007_1a.jpg

[zooplan]

Are you going to brumate all your snakes, also those little once with only 6 grams?
Your boxes looking like you´re brumating them in sacks.

[Ameivaboy]

What kind of bedding do you use in those humid hides?

I use Eco earth.

[zooplan]

Do you use these humid hiding boxes in your sommer set up too?

First snake reached sommer habitat again:
http://www.zooplan.net/images/amel_051207.jpg

[reptileparadise]

...still lovin 'm...

[zooplan]

The rest of my snakes left the frigde yesterday.
The temperature in my cellar is down to 11°C so it will take some days to warm them up.

[Lori P]

Wooo hooo snakies!! It's summer time!! Time to head for the beach and catch some sun!!! Warm up quick!! :-) :-)

[adamanteus]

I will start to warm mine up after the holidays. I can't wait!:D

[Stefan-A]

6 more days for my snake. :p Once she's warmed up, she better start eating.

[Thamnophis]

Officially the winter had just started two days ago... :rolleyes:

My snakes stay for a least another month in the cold and dark. I love the peace and quiet. :D