my new snakes,,,,what kind are they?

[brandon0133]

im new to this site and to this kinda snake,,,i have two gater snakes i bought at the local pet store here in greensboro north carolina. there both health and doing great,,,very jumpy thats for sure,,anyways how do i tell if there female or male? and what kinda gater snake are they?

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4847.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4844.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4839.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4848.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4838.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4841.jpg

[zooplan]

looking like T. sirtalis parietalis red sideds

[adamanteus]

One is certainly parietalis, but the other is looking a little like sirtalis sirtalis to me.

[drache]

I posted about this on the other thread
I too think, one of them is a parietalis, but I'm not sure about the other one

[Sid]

One is certainly parietalis, but the other is looking a little like sirtalis sirtalis to me.
I agreement with James on this one.

[Stefan-A]

They both look like parietalis to me.

[ssssnakeluvr]

they both look like parietalis to mee also...youcan see faint orange spots on the side on the top one....probably from farther north. the pics I've seen of the ones from Canada all have a row of red spots on the side down to minimal red or no red at all...

[enigma200316]

they both look like parietalis to mee also...youcan see faint orange spots on the side on the top one....probably from farther north. the pics I've seen of the ones from Canada all have a row of red spots on the side down to minimal red or no red at all...


I agree I can see the faint marks as well............:)

[GarterGuy]

Have to agree with Don and Stefan, T.s.parietalis.

[Tori]

Can't be sirtalis sirtalis, they are native in NC and can't be sold in any pet shop there.

[brandon0133]

one of them has red spots all the way down it kinda behind the blackish looking scales,,,,and the other seems to not have any red,,,they were both bought from the same place and were in the same tank together,,there was about 8 of them all together and sleeping under a rock together,,,is there a way to tell if ones a female and the other a male? one as soon as i put him in there he sqirted out some nasty looking clear white stuff all over the place,,,the other just went and hide for awhile,,now there both out having fun and eating and just being crazy all over the place,,lol

[brandon0133]

ok one has alot of red going down all the way down his sides,,the other has none,,, ones bigger then the other one also,,fatter,, also when they fist got put in my tank they went nutts and one kinda pissed out this nasty looking white clear stuff all inside the tank,,what was that? i read something about it on here as to be because he was scared,,,and i guess its sopposed to scare things away,,ok so far as for food for the snakes ive put in live minnows and crickets,,,i have not seen them eat anything yet,,remember i got them yesterday. im just going to take a guess on size,,id say there about 2 1/2 foot long and about 1/2 thick at the widest point,,any ideas on how old they are? and what they can eat? i also wanted to know people said they are T.s.parietalis and stuff but i dont know how to even say that,,lol,,is there a less technical name for them,,,like north carolina garter snake,,lol,, any ideas where they came from?

[Bay_area]

Loooks just like Thamnophis elegans terrestris - Coast Gartersnake I find here in Nor*Cal
Thamnophis elegans terrestris - Coast Gartersnake (http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/t.e.terrestris.html)

How did the pet shop have them listed? I personally would go back & find out what ever information you could on the snakes

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

if u got it from petco they're both red-sided they sell those a lot

[brandon0133]

ok i just took some new pics of the undersides as close as i could,,trying to hold them still while doing that aint so easy,,,my girlfriend said she noticed big differences in the underside,,,one is more darker black on the back side of the hole and u can barely tell theres a hole there and the other is lighter black and u can see the vent or whatever its call alot bigger and easier to see,,heres the pics i could get

heres a pic of the slight red under the scales
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4856.jpg
heres one underside
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4851.jpg
heres the other snake,,see the white spot and the other dont have that at all
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4857.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4854.jpg
and the other one again
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/brandon0133/100_4852.jpg

[brandon0133]

no one? also i have a turtle called a red eared slider in my tank with my two garter snakes,,now the turtle is little and they seem to get along really good,,,he pretty much lives in the water and u might see him out once a month,,lol,,,anyways the snakes swim in the water with him and all seem to get along great,,ive been spending alot of time watching them all together,, the snakes seem to want to spend a pretty good bit of the time under the wood carving pieces that line the tank,,remember its 175 gallon tank and its got about 1 1/2 ft of wood carvings at the highest point and about 4 inches at the lowest,,what i did was put a small like 15 gallon tank inside the big tank and put dirt across the bottom of the big tank and built the wood carvings up to the top of the small tank,,so the turtles and snakes could climb up the (hill) into the water,,,,well the snakes made tunnels around the smaller tank under the wood pieces,,,,and they seem to stay there alot,,,well atleast today they have,,,i bought live pinkies today,,,i dont think they have ever had them before the pet store said they were fed minnows and crickets,,which i also have those in the tank to,, do these snakes like to spend alot of time hiding?

[CrazyHedgehog]

the pet store said they were fed minnows and crickets,,

errr no.. definately should not feed crickets..


, do these snakes like to spend alot of time hiding?
yep.. but each has a different personality..I have one that if it sees me, it hides, and another who comes to have a nose if I am near!

[drache]

Brandon I'm no expert on this, but I think they're both male
they look like grown snakes, and I think if one of them is female, it should be more obvious - even to me

I don't think it's a great idea to keep two different reptile species together
it's something I wouldn't do, but can't exactly tell you why
you have a nice size tank there, with what sounds like a great set-up, so there's probably a way to make it work

don't bother with the crickets, unless your turtles will eat them - the garters won't
minnows are good, but the garters may not eat for a while
they need to get settled in first - 'til then, they'll spend a lot of time hiding
just leave them be for a while and bone up on your garter care here:
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Garter_Snake_Care_Sheet
enjoy

[brandon0133]

thanks,,,yeah i thought they looked about full grown, so at this lenth they should be able to eat pinkies right? i just put two small pinkies in there,,,but they have never had them that i know of,,,

[Tori]

Most pet shops I've been in can't tell the difference between a ribbon snake and a garter and since ribbons will eat crickets they think garters will too. If they are feeding them crickets it is unlikely that they will know what species are they.

Try washing the pinkies first and then rubbing them with a fish to "scent" them. They will smell more like what they know is food and hopefully be more willing to take them. Eventually, they ought to take them without scenting them first. Garters will also eat nightcrawlers (never use red worms or what they call wigglers - they are toxic) and raw cut up fish like trout.

I agree that they both look to be male, a female will seem to suddenly "pinch" in just after the vent and have a shorter tail than a male who will slowly taper in after the vent area. It also looks like two difference kinds of garter, you can tell the red-sided and I think that Bay Area is right about the second being a elegans terrestris though I'm not going to swear to it. Both are beautiful snakes, congrats.

[brandon0133]

thanks for everyones help,,sense im new here i did not know if there were many people to talk to on here about this stuff or not,,anyone know about turtles?

[KITKAT]

thanks for everyones help,,sense im new here i did not know if there were many people to talk to on here about this stuff or not,,anyone know about turtles?

Just thought I would mention that your one snake looks like it might have a problem on the ventral side (belly) of its tail. The scales look rough and discolored? If so, you may want to treat that for scale rot.

[brandon0133]

scale rot? where can i get something to help that? and by the way whoever that was that suggested i use a minnow to rub on the pinkies....that worked,,tonight the biggest gater ate his first pinkie and he took the big one to,,can a snake eat itself to death? cause he ate the minnow first then he ate the big pinkie,,,now hes acting like hes going to eat the other pinkie to...is that ok?

[Stefan-A]

Probably not scale rot, that's just a fairly typical T. s parietalis. They tend to have that kind of subcaudal (underneath the tail) coloring.

[brandon0133]

anyone know if a snake can eat to much and kill it? the biggest snake i have has eaten 1 minnow 1 goldfish feeder and two small pinkies in the last 3 hrs,,,should i allow him to eat more?

[drache]

anyone know if a snake can eat to much and kill it? the biggest snake i have has eaten 1 minnow 1 goldfish feeder and two small pinkies in the last 3 hrs,,,should i allow him to eat more?

that doesn't seem too much - your snakes are a good size
better to stay away from the goldfish though and stick to minnows
a snake the size of yours I'd offer a couple of large pinks and as many minnows as they want once per week
and yes they can overeat and become obese

[brandon0133]

but i mean will they like choke on to much food? and it kill them? or ure saying they will just get fat,,lol

[brandon0133]

what about goldfish makes them bad?

[drache]

they contain an enzyme that depletes your snakes vitamin B1 levels
here - read all about it:
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Thiamin,

I've never seen a snake choke on too much food - I think that's pretty rare
mine just spit out any piece they can't manage

[brandon0133]

There is currently no text in this page, you can search for this page title (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/../../caresheets/index.php?title=Special:Search/Thiamin) in other pages or edit this page (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/../../caresheets/index.php?title=Thiamin&action=edit). is what it says on that link u sent me,

[drache]

okay
let me see, whether this works
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Thiamin,#SYMPTOMS_OF_THIAMIN_DEFIC IENCY

this link works
you just need to scroll up a bit, to get to the beginning of the page

[brandon0133]

ok thanks,,clears that up