Hellow and a few questions please.

[BabelaJoy]

My son, who is 8, begged me at the pet shop recently (Saturday) to buy him a snake. I told him no, no, no, no, no, because honestly, I do not have any love for snakes. However, he loves snakes and loves the shows on TV where people go trap snakes. He was literally in tears in the store. I felt it was not right to discourage this for him, based on my fears, so I said okay. I asked the pet shop which snake would be best for a child, something I do not have to feed live mice or rats (absolutely will not do this), and something that would not bite. They suggested a garter snake. We bought him a garter snake, a tank, a heat lamp, bedding or what they called substrate, and these feeder fish (not guppies or gold fish, black fish of some type, small). I have been reading on this forum for a few hours and have seen that garter snakes do bite, and this concerns me a lot. I have read that the bite does not hurt, but I would think on an 8-year-old, a bite would hurt. The snake seems tame when he takes it out, he keeps kissing it, and it has not seemed like he wanted to strike or bite as of yet, but is this something I have to worry about? If I Posted a picture, do any of you think you can tell me what species it might be from, its general temperament, how big it might get, etc? I have to figure out how to post a picture.

Another issue we are having is feeding this guy. We bought 12 of these feeder fish on Saturday, and they were all eaten by Sunday. Should I be limiting how often the snake eats, like 2 or 3 times a week? The pet shop told me that eat up to 6 fish a day. So, we went back on Sunday and bought 2 dozen more of these feeder fish, and half of them are gone, so this snake ate 2 dozen fish in 3 days. This seems like a bit much for small snake. Also, going to the pet shop every other day is out of the question, so is there something I can buy online in bulk, maybe something frozen, that this type of snake will eat? I absolutely will not buy mice/rats or anything like that. We have pet gerbils, have had pet rats and mice, and I love these animals too much to use them as food. I read on this forum somewhere that somebody fed their snake wet cat food. Is this something a garter can eat regularly? Crickets are out of the questions also as I abhor crickets. I also will not buy roaches, same thing, disgusting.

Well, thanks for reading. We are a pet loving family, have 4 cats, a dog, pet gerbils, and my other son who is 6, wanted to take all the little white feeder mice they had at the pet shop home. He was horrified to watch the pet shop feed one of these mice to a monitor lizard. We also have a chinchilla, have had pet rescue rats, and any time there are kittens in the neighborhood, we take them in and find them homes.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, and thanks for making a forum for us newbie snake owners to come ask our dumb questions, LOL.

Thanks again, :D

Joy

[adamanteus]

Hi Joy, and welcome to the forum.:) I'm pleased that you found us.

Don't worry about the bite of a Garter Snake, it is insignificant, even to an eight year old. Also, if the snake is calm and placcid so far it is likely to remain that way. This said, I don't think kissing is a good idea, for any number of reasons.

It sounds as though your new snake is large enough to take larger prey items, you might want to consider weaning it onto frozen/thawed pinky mice or strips of fish such as trout. Forget the crickets and roaches, Garters don't eat this type of prey at all.

We will certainly be happy to help you identify the species. You will find that the forums' anti-spam software will not allow you to upload photos until you have posted about half a dozen times, for the same reason you may notice that your posts don't appear on the forum immediately, this will soon end and you'll be a full member with full priviledges really soon.

Once again, welcome to the forum, and thanks for being such an understanding and giving parent!

[drache]

Welcome to this forum, Joy
it is not absolutely necessary to feed mice to your son's garter - they're merely nutritionally superior to many other foods
to can rest your concerns about crickets and roaches, as garters will not eat them anyway
I'm curious as to what kind of fish you are getting . . .
it sounds like your garter is eating a lot, but of course, I don't know how big the fish are - or the garter
generally I would feed a baby (up to about 8" or so) three times per week, a one-year-old a couple of times, or every five days, an adult once per week
with just fish, I'm not sure
please read the caresheets
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Main_Page
and since it looks like you'll be feeding primarily fish, do look at this article as well
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Thiamin,
don't worry about running to the petshop all the time - most garters can be persuaded to accept frozen/thawed fish pieces
you have quite a menagerie there
I am sure that with time you'll come to like your new addition more than you can now imagine
I hope this is enough to get you started
and ask anything
nice to meet you

[BabelaJoy]

Here is a picture of what we were told was a garter snake. My son named him Sparky.



http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4629/dsc00127jp6.jpg

[adamanteus]

Red-Sided Garter Snake. Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis.

[BabelaJoy]

Hi Joy, and welcome to the forum.:) I'm pleased that you found us.

Don't worry about the bite of a Garter Snake, it is insignificant, even to an eight year old. Also, if the snake is calm and placcid so far it is likely to remain that way. This said, I don't think kissing is a good idea, for any number of reasons.

It sounds as though your new snake is large enough to take larger prey items, you might want to consider weaning it onto frozen/thawed pinky mice or strips of fish such as trout. Forget the crickets and roaches, Garters don't eat this type of prey at all.

We will certainly be happy to help you identify the species. You will find that the forums' anti-spam software will not allow you to upload photos until you have posted about half a dozen times, for the same reason you may notice that your posts don't appear on the forum immediately, this will soon end and you'll be a full member with full priviledges really soon.

Once again, welcome to the forum, and thanks for being such an understanding and giving parent!

Thanks for your help. I have uploaded a picture, but apparently it won't post till it is approved by the moderators.

[BabelaJoy]

Red-Sided Garter Snake. Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis.

Thanks!!! How do I make the picture smaller so it does not distort the page on the forum, anybody know.

[BabelaJoy]

Welcome to this forum, Joy
it is not absolutely necessary to feed mice to your son's garter - they're merely nutritionally superior to many other foods
to can rest your concerns about crickets and roaches, as garters will not eat them anyway
I'm curious as to what kind of fish you are getting . . .
it sounds like your garter is eating a lot, but of course, I don't know how big the fish are - or the garter
generally I would feed a baby (up to about 8" or so) three times per week, a one-year-old a couple of times, or every five days, an adult once per week
with just fish, I'm not sure
please read the caresheets
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Main_Page
and since it looks like you'll be feeding primarily fish, do look at this article as well
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Thiamin,
don't worry about running to the petshop all the time - most garters can be persuaded to accept frozen/thawed fish pieces
you have quite a menagerie there
I am sure that with time you'll come to like your new addition more than you can now imagine
I hope this is enough to get you started
and ask anything
nice to meet you

I called the pet shop and asked them what the feeders were called for the garter snakes and they told me Rosies. I measured him and although he squiggled, he's approximately 18 inches long and about 1/2 inch fat. I have the picture posted below. I will read the care sheets, and have been reading alot on this forum, and would greatly appreicate suppliers name or anything like that.

Again, thanks everybody for reading. I told my son to stop kissing him.

[BabelaJoy]

Welcome to this forum, Joy
it is not absolutely necessary to feed mice to your son's garter - they're merely nutritionally superior to many other foods
to can rest your concerns about crickets and roaches, as garters will not eat them anyway
I'm curious as to what kind of fish you are getting . . .
it sounds like your garter is eating a lot, but of course, I don't know how big the fish are - or the garter
generally I would feed a baby (up to about 8" or so) three times per week, a one-year-old a couple of times, or every five days, an adult once per week
with just fish, I'm not sure
please read the caresheets
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Main_Page
and since it looks like you'll be feeding primarily fish, do look at this article as well
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Thiamin,
don't worry about running to the petshop all the time - most garters can be persuaded to accept frozen/thawed fish pieces
you have quite a menagerie there
I am sure that with time you'll come to like your new addition more than you can now imagine
I hope this is enough to get you started
and ask anything
nice to meet you

Oh, and I have touched the snake and even held it. I am fine with that when I am controlling the touching part, but when my son touches me with it, and I am not expecting it, it still freaks me out. I am sure that will stop soon.

Thanks for the welcome!!

[Sid]

Red-Sided Garter Snake. Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis.

Welcome to the forum:). I agree with James on the speciec, Red-Sided Garter. You can find a photo of one in the care sheet section under Common Garter. My Garters that size I feed smaall mice and minnows from the bait shop.

[anji1971]

Welcome to the forum, Joy!
Once you get used to Sparky, you'll most likely be as fascinated with these little animals as the rest of us here! And this is definitely the place to come for help and info.
By the way- he's a real cute little snakie!!

[Lori P]

Welcome Joy!! You sound like such a wonderful, responsible pet family. :-) Your snake is just beautiful!!!! You'll love this forum, and you'll learn a lot. :-)

One thing you might consider is the pre-frozen feeder mice... having had rescued pet mice and rats myself, that was a hard concept for me to deal with but I also wanted my snakes to have the best nutrition for them (it's not their fault they're snakes, you know?) So I did a lot of research and found a company that talked about the health, comfort and welfare of their feeder mice, and also described the euthanasia method. It's not so hard to feed these frozen mice when you know they were bred exactly for this reason and treated humanely.

But I think if your comfort level is the fish, your snake will still be fine. Do you have an established fish tank you can keep feeder fish in? Then you could buy more at a time...

Keep us posted! :-)

[mikm]

Hey again Joy ... Looks like you found the forum without me. Good job !!! You'll find tons of stuff here ... all you could ever need. As for biting that's usually out of fear (your snake looks pretty docile) or a mistake as in a feeding response. Garters have little teeth kind of like velcro not what you would think in regards to a snake. Fearing a bite is just that ... the fear thing. Most often a garter will musk (poop) on you while trying to escape rather then bite ;).

Best of Luck & WELCOME :D

[Lori P]

OOOOHHHH I never knew that "musking" was pooping!! I thought it was some kind of fear scenting. I swear, all this new knowledge won't fit in my little blonde head... :-)!!!

[ssssnakeluvr]

Welcome to the forum! definitely a red sided garter. nice looking snake too!! :D at that size he or she will eat a ton of rosies. you can save a bit of money by buying fresh trout and cutting it into small chunks and freezing them separately. you can thaw what you need for a feeding. once or twice a week will be fine. frozen/thawed mice are better nutritionally, but aren't necessary.

[Thamnophis]

Welcome here Joy,
You bought your son a very beautiful snake. This red sided gartesnake is very suited for a beginner.

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard, Joy. :)

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Joy :)
I think you got a girl there :confused:

[enigma200316]

welcome to the forum...............:)

[salzar]

hi joy what a nice thing to do for your child, my kids wanted a pet for eons but we rent so dog/cat is not an option, so a snake is great, remember to clean the tank often and always have fresh water on hand other than that please no huggin or kissing... heeeeeheeee bye
michelle

[RZL36]

I give my long term captive king snake a kiss every once-in-awhile. I know it is gross, but she is so adorable. Probably not the best thing to do.

It's really cool that he is so into the snake. It serves as a great way to get the kid to be interested in reading and science.

I remember when I was about 9 (24 now)I got a ball python. I read so much about him and was fascinated by biology ever since. Yet, it was all that reading that probably compelled me to write for a living years later. In any event, it's an excellent hobby and one that promotes knowledge gathering. Welcome to the forum and enjoy the new snake.

[Lulu Bennett]

hi joy and welcome to the forum.
it already sounds like you have got alot of good advice off everyone. i assure you that a snake bite doesn't hurt.
when i was 4 my dad bought my older brother a snake (he was 10) whilst he was at school. i had gotten it out before he saw it for the first time and it bit my lip and hung there for a min. at this point my bro walked in and freeked because he saw it hanging and i was laughing. i am now addicted to snakes and my brother hates them lol work that one out lol. you need to be aware that it will bite him atleast once in his life, they are wild animals still. please dont let this put you off as this is normally an accident on the snakes behalf.

[BabelaJoy]

Welcome Joy!! You sound like such a wonderful, responsible pet family. :-) Your snake is just beautiful!!!! You'll love this forum, and you'll learn a lot. :-)

One thing you might consider is the pre-frozen feeder mice... having had rescued pet mice and rats myself, that was a hard concept for me to deal with but I also wanted my snakes to have the best nutrition for them (it's not their fault they're snakes, you know?) So I did a lot of research and found a company that talked about the health, comfort and welfare of their feeder mice, and also described the euthanasia method. It's not so hard to feed these frozen mice when you know they were bred exactly for this reason and treated humanely.

But I think if your comfort level is the fish, your snake will still be fine. Do you have an established fish tank you can keep feeder fish in? Then you could buy more at a time...

Keep us posted! :-)

Hi. Sorry, I was away and just now got to reading this, but would you be willing to share the name of the place where you get your feeder mice? Is it online, or a place local to you?

I went in to get more fish today and explained to the store guy that half the feeders were dying before I can feed the snake and he won't eat the dead ones, and what can they suggest. They suggested we try goldfish as they are hardier, but I read that there is something in the goldfish that can hurt the snake, and I was suprised that he suggested them because every snake site I have found has told me about whatever it is in the goldfish that can make the snake sick. So, he sold me something to treat my water, which is city water, and I plan to upgrade to a bigger tank in the near future, but for now we will have to just keep making all those trips to the pet shop. It kind of works out because I needed to get some toys for my chinchilla and more substrate for the snake anyway today, and I might as well admit, I love seeing all the animals there.

Thanks for the welcome!!!

Joy

[BabelaJoy]

Hey again Joy ... Looks like you found the forum without me. Good job !!! You'll find tons of stuff here ... all you could ever need. As for biting that's usually out of fear (your snake looks pretty docile) or a mistake as in a feeding response. Garters have little teeth kind of like velcro not what you would think in regards to a snake. Fearing a bite is just that ... the fear thing. Most often a garter will musk (poop) on you while trying to escape rather then bite ;).

Best of Luck & WELCOME :D

Yeah, I had found this forum and have been reading, reading, reading.

Thanks again,

Joy

[BabelaJoy]

Welcome to the forum! definitely a red sided garter. nice looking snake too!! :D at that size he or she will eat a ton of rosies. you can save a bit of money by buying fresh trout and cutting it into small chunks and freezing them separately. you can thaw what you need for a feeding. once or twice a week will be fine. frozen/thawed mice are better nutritionally, but aren't necessary.

How do you think I can get her to eat fresh trout if she won't eat a dead rosie that is in her bowl? I tend to think she is used to moving food, LOL. I said to my son before, why can't she just eat a bowl of cereal, would be nice wouldn't it?

How bout my hubby had an idea of buying some of those worms that the 7-11's sell for bait, would think a garter would eat them? Is it healthy?

Thanks,
Joy

[BabelaJoy]

Welcome here Joy,
You bought your son a very beautiful snake. This red sided gartesnake is very suited for a beginner.

Thanks, she is very clear clean snake, and I am surprised I am not more freaked out by her. She has a heck of an apetite, and when I go to check on her, she actually comes out from under her rock and it's like she knows who I am.

Pretty Neat!!

Thanks for the welcome.

Joy

[BabelaJoy]

Welcome aboard, Joy. :)

Thanks so much for the welcome and having a site like this for people like me.

[BabelaJoy]

Hi, from Oregon, Joy :)
I think you got a girl there :confused:

Three people told me she is a girl, and my son was a bit upset, I guess he wanted a boy, but to me, what is the difference? He loves her all the same.

Thanks and Hi back!

[BabelaJoy]

welcome to the forum...............:)


Thanks everybody. I am so thankful to all of you and all the advice I am getting.

[BabelaJoy]

hi joy what a nice thing to do for your child, my kids wanted a pet for eons but we rent so dog/cat is not an option, so a snake is great, remember to clean the tank often and always have fresh water on hand other than that please no huggin or kissing... heeeeeheeee bye
michelle

Well, we have no shortage of pets here. My mom was a pain in the butt with pets, never could have any, so I guess I go overboard. We have plenty to go around.

Is once a week a good timeframe to clean the cage, or should it be more often than that?

Don't worry, I won't be hugging or kissing the snake, my son kisses it but I told him to stop doing that.

[BabelaJoy]

I give my long term captive king snake a kiss every once-in-awhile. I know it is gross, but she is so adorable. Probably not the best thing to do.

It's really cool that he is so into the snake. It serves as a great way to get the kid to be interested in reading and science.

I remember when I was about 9 (24 now)I got a ball python. I read so much about him and was fascinated by biology ever since. Yet, it was all that reading that probably compelled me to write for a living years later. In any event, it's an excellent hobby and one that promotes knowledge gathering. Welcome to the forum and enjoy the new snake.

My son is absolutely ape over animals, how they act, behave, mate, etc. Not just house pets, but things in the oceans, crocodiles, animals like insects, crickets, worms, ugh, sometimes the boy can drive me nutso. One of his heros was Steve Irwin, "Crocodile Hunter," and when he died, he watched the news reports and all that with me. I fear he thinks there are no fears to have with animals because of how easy Steve made it look, so I want him to have knowledge about what he can and cannot touch and how to do it safely.

Thanks again for the welcome.

[BabelaJoy]

hi joy and welcome to the forum.
it already sounds like you have got alot of good advice off everyone. i assure you that a snake bite doesn't hurt.
when i was 4 my dad bought my older brother a snake (he was 10) whilst he was at school. i had gotten it out before he saw it for the first time and it bit my lip and hung there for a min. at this point my bro walked in and freeked because he saw it hanging and i was laughing. i am now addicted to snakes and my brother hates them lol work that one out lol. you need to be aware that it will bite him atleast once in his life, they are wild animals still. please dont let this put you off as this is normally an accident on the snakes behalf.

OMG, I honestly do not know how I would react if Sparky was hanging from one of the kids lips, but I know to not overreact in general with kids and injuries, so I guess I would try to be calm. Sounds absolutely scary for you as a child, surprised you like snakes now.

Hmm, your brother, probably some kind of big brother protector thing going on and that is why he doesn't like them now. Shrugs, who knows.

[anji1971]

How bout my hubby had an idea of buying some of those worms that the 7-11's sell for bait, would think a garter would eat them? Is it healthy?

Thanks,
Joy


If the 7-11 sells nightcrawlers for bait your snake will probably love them- you just might have to chop them up if they're too big. My snake won't eat anything but worms, and i've tried all kinds of other food, so nightcrawlers it is. Just be careful because one type of worm-think it's called red wiggler?? is not good for gartersnakes. Check before you buy, or better yet , if you don't have any chemicals used in your yard, just go out at night after a rain and grab some of those nightcrawlers- free snake food!!!!!!!:D

[BabelaJoy]

If the 7-11 sells nightcrawlers for bait your snake will probably love them- you just might have to chop them up if they're too big. My snake won't eat anything but worms, and i've tried all kinds of other food, so nightcrawlers it is. Just be careful because one type of worm-think it's called red wiggler?? is not good for gartersnakes. Check before you buy, or better yet , if you don't have any chemicals used in your yard, just go out at night after a rain and grab some of those nightcrawlers- free snake food!!!!!!!:D

I'm gonna try some. Where I live, WV, there don't seem to be worms outside that I see. It's been dry and we have mainly rocks everywhere, I think in 2.5 years since I have lived in this house I live in, we have seen 1 outside.

I also think my snake is not a baby. When we went to the pet shop today, she looks at least twice the size of the snakes they had in the garter tank at the store. They were tiny, a bit like large worms. So, maybe this garter we bought is older and more set on fish since that is what the pet shop feeds them.

I am going to try though.

Thanks.

Joy

[adamanteus]

Joy, please don't feed your Garter on Goldfish....they contain thiaminase, which destroys the B vitimins in the snakes diet, a deficiency of B vitamins prevents your snake from synthesising calcium. In short, Goldfish are toxic for your snake. Have a read through this article.
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Thiamin,

[BabelaJoy]

Joy, please don't feed your Garter on Goldfish....they contain thiaminase, which destroys the B vitimins in the snakes diet, a deficiency of B vitamins prevents your snake from synthesising calcium. In short, Goldfish are toxic for your snake. Have a read through this article.
http://www.thamnophis.com/caresheets/index.php?title=Thiamin,

I know, and that is why I was so surprised the pet shop OWNER suggested I buy them. He also seemed to not know that they were not good for garter snakes as he looked at me like I had 2 heads when I told him. If I have gotten anything out of the past week and a half of research it is not to feed them goldfish.

[mikm]

Hey there Joy, Your snake is not a baby she's most likely an adult or sub-adult. Female garters are alot larger then their male counterparts. In regards to feeding, I have had garters refuse dead fish for awhile then not have a problem with it at all. I have also had them refuse trout strips but luv salmon strips ... I think it best to try and experiment with different things and perhaps change it up from time to time. I was recently surprised when canned salmon was a HUGE success. I now stock a few cans of salmon right beside the dog & cat food cans :) ....

Best,

[BabelaJoy]

Hey there Joy, Your snake is not a baby she's most likely an adult or sub-adult. Female garters are alot larger then their male counterparts. In regards to feeding, I have had garters refuse dead fish for awhile then not have a problem with it at all. I have also had them refuse trout strips but luv salmon strips ... I think it best to try and experiment with different things and perhaps change it up from time to time. I was recently surprised when canned salmon was a HUGE success. I now stock a few cans of salmon right beside the dog & cat food cans :) ....

Best,

Well, thanks. I am going to have to go shopping one of these days. I found out I have a Fish Hatchery 5 minutes from where I live, so thinking about this as an option, but only problem is they sell in smallest quantity of 100, and what in the world would I do with 100 fish?

Then, today, me and my son spent hours looking for worms. Again, I live in WV and they are far and few between. In about 3 hours we found 1 worm, and although we had accidentally killed it digging it up, we rinsed it off and put it in the snakes bowl to see if he would eat it. He ate the dead worm, so I am going to get some of these to change off with.

Gonna have to try canned salmon next.

My son was so proud that the snake ate the worm.

He loves this snake.

Thanks for your help.

Joy

[KITKAT]

...I found out I have a Fish Hatchery 5 minutes from where I live, so thinking about this as an option, but only problem is they sell in smallest quantity of 100, and what in the world would I do with 100 fish? ...

Freeze them and teach your snake to take them thawed. It's better for your snake anyway... kills some of the parasites in the fish.:rolleyes:

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Hiya Joy :) although everyone has pretty much filled you in on the basics of keeping that cute little garter snake, I figured it wouldn't hurt to point out one other thing, regarding those bait-worms:
Make sure if possible that they are not the sort of worms that come from commercial compost depots, or otherwise gigantic compost heaps. Apparently these worms can be too acidic for garter snakes, and though they would probably eat them, they will make snakie sick.
Personally, I don't know how to identify these 'red-stripe' compost worms, because I have never seen them, but it might be something you should inquire of the seller.
Your son strikes me as a very inquisitive and bright kid :) and it's wonderful that he has such an interest in the natural world. Just great!
For the record, my snakie loves worms, salamanders, newts, and pinky or fuzzy mice. She does not seem to care for fish in any shape or form, fresh or frozen or live. But, garter snakes have been known to adjust their dietary preferences during their lifetimes, so who knows, your sons snake may one day like something it didn't before, or vice-versa.
Anyhow, welcome to the forum, to you, your son, and the very pretty garter snake you now have -- have fun!