Another question? If a Garter bites...

[Spartikus]

How much does it hurt?? I would like to prepare myself for pain just in case. :rolleyes: Spartikus is my first snake, I wanted a corn snake a few years back until I found out they have to eat mice... So I kinda just gave up on the idea.

[adamanteus]

It can hurt a little bit, but most times if you're not looking you wouldn't know you've been bitten. Large specimens can hurt a bit, and draw blood.

[Spartikus]

:eek: I hope I never get bit then. *lol* or that spart stays real small.:p

[Lulu Bennett]

spartikus- you do realise that the best meal for a garter is mice

[Sid]

I've been bitten by snakes much larger than my Garters and the experience has been very little pain.

[RZL36]

It's a rite of passage. The trick is the more you handle them, the less they bite. You may very well never get bit. If you do get bit, don't freak out and throw it across the room (had that happen to one of my snakes after a friend was playing with it). But to Sid's point, it really doesn't hurt.

[Spartikus]

I know lulu, I will have to deal with it I guess. Although I do love furry little creatures, I have a mini zoo
2 Chinchillas
3 Hamsters
2 parrotlets (mini parrots)
2 rats
When Spartikus gets bigger he would have a great lunch at my house lol

[Charlet_2007]

How much does it hurt?? I would like to prepare myself for pain just in case. :rolleyes: Spartikus is my first snake, I wanted a corn snake a few years back until I found out they have to eat mice... So I kinda just gave up on the idea.


It don't hurt that much I never felt the teeth go in.. But I felt the pressure and lot of it after my finger went numb I couldn't feel anything but by that time it tried to wrap itself around my hand and every little movement hurt from the on, because I could then feel the teeth move all of a sudden because it was letting the pressure off little by little to move its body around to get a batter angle when swallowing my finger whole.. My husband told me to try putting it back in its cage well that didn't work at all just made it wrap around me even harder lol... I had to kind of reach my finger up under its chin and kind of pop the bottom of it mouth off before it would let go of me.. Now you have to be really careful when doing that so that you don't hurt it.. I have some pics of what my finger looks like after it happened..

Top of finger:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q61/zoie18_2001/snakebite014.jpg

Side of finger:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q61/zoie18_2001/snakebite005.jpg

[RZL36]

Was that a garter bite?

[Bay_area]

Garter snake bites are not that bad @ all. Sometimes their saliva does cause a burning though. Suggest you read the page that refers to a bite by a harmless garter snake may be "venomous":eek:

Duvernoy's Glands and "Warm" Herping (http://www.anapsid.org/duvernoygland.html)

[RZL36]

Cold water will get a snake off and pushing (not pulling) forward works too.

[garterking]

A garter snakes bite is more suprising if anything. At most you might have 2 small pin pricks where the teeth sunk in and a speck of blood. Put it this way, pricking your finger for a blood test is 10 times worse, and that's pretty much nothing. If I were you I wouldn't worry about it.

[Charlet_2007]

yeah it was my garter that bit me lol i think it was hungry at that time lmao I got it out to show a friend that it was docile guess it had other things on its mind lmao..

[drache]

getting bitten is no big deal
you've done way worse to yourself in the kitchen, without even bothering to get a band-aid, I'm sure
don't let the snake chew on you though
it may seem cute to watch a little thing like that get a good grip on you, but their saliva can cause a big reaction - like emergency room big

[RZL36]

I've been on a forum with Dr. Brian Fry (big time venom researcher) and he claims that garter snake venom is remarkably similiar to copperhead venom. Pretty toxic stuff. They just don't have an effective way to deliver it and not much of it to deliver.

I've also read that marcianus has the most potent (I think someone here provided that information).

All in all, it can't do much to you unless you cut out the duvernoy's gland and put it directly into an artery.

I would certainly advise against that.

[Stefan-A]

Like I told James a long time ago, it took roughly 250 years from Carl von Linné (that's Carolus Linnaeus to the rest of you ;) ) first describing a garter snake, to somebody actually figuring out that they were venomous. That should give a bit of a clue as to how dangerous their bite is. :D

Rich, has Dr. Fry given any sort of LD50 values for the venom they have?
Considering their diets, I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if copperhead and garter venoms were similar.

[RZL36]

Yeah, this probably isn't the right place to be talking about this. Gonna freak people out.

Garter snakes can't hurt you.

[RZL36]

Check this out for some more information. Couldn't find anything about the agkistrodon comparison, b/c i am at work and need to get some stuff done. THis is kinda cool though:

Venomdoc Forums :: View topic - Three Fingers? (http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=142&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=thamnophis&start=10)

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, I've read that before. :)

mmm.. neurotoxin.. much more fun than cytotoxins and hemotoxins. ;)

[RZL36]

yeah, icky stuff. It explains why people go numb though. Right?

[Stefan-A]

Well, neurotoxins work in two different ways. They either block or flood your nervous system.

[Bay_area]

Garter snakes can't hurt you.

"can't"? more than likely not to but I would not say can't

People shouldn't be freaked out, but they should be aware. I do not know how many times I have been biten over the years. However, the only bite that sent me to the hospital was from a copperhead. I have been bitten by rear fanged snakes like the False Water Cobra with minor effects. When I was in grade school I was bitten right on the nose by a garter snake while showing off for the girls @ the park. Had alot of bleeding, but was more embarrassed than anything:o. With that said, if someone does get bitten & there is any side affects such as redness or swelling, they should have it looked at, expecially if it is a child. People could react differently & have an allergic reaction.

this is from the link I posted eariler in this thread;
Duvernoy's Glands and "Warm" Herping (http://www.anapsid.org/duvernoygland.html)

here are some quotes from the page:

"I learned that garters had Duvernoy’s gland secretions that were toxic, so that a person bitten could suffer swelling, bleeding, and bruising"

"Reports of the bite of a separate species, the wandering garter snake, also suggest toxicity. Symptoms from the bite of this species (Thamnophis elegans) have included swelling, pain, and localized bleeding but not systemic symptoms."

[Stefan-A]

Excellent point, but I'd still consider tetanus a bigger risk. ;)

[RZL36]

I was afraid of mentioning the allergic reaction bit. I don't want people getting rid of their snakes.

I reluctantly posted that article in a previous thread.

In actuality garters can hurt you, but not fatally.

Just not trying to alert the masses.

[Stefan-A]

I think it improves their image a bit and it's definitely better to stick to the facts. Enough facts and the masses don't know what to think. :D

It's not very difficult to inform the masses without alerting them, but it could always backfire if somebody gets the bright idea to ban them too as venomous.

[Charlet_2007]

ive gotten bit by my garter snake and haven't have any systems with them having venom.. if that was true id be really really sick right now or dead and im nether...

[Spartikus]

Thank you for all the info :) You have all been really helpful.

[RZL36]

ive gotten bit by my garter snake and haven't have any systems with them having venom.. if that was true id be really really sick right now or dead and im nether...

Not everything venomous is a taipan. You said yourself that your finger went numb. Isn't that evidence enough?

[adamanteus]

Honestly, I can't believe we're really debating the degree of danger from a Garter Snake bite! It's utter nonsense, and splitting hairs. So Garters posses a Duvernoys' gland....I posses an appendix, but it serves no useful purpose.

[Stefan-A]

Somebody said the term "Duvernoy's gland" is obsolete?

[RZL36]

I've read that too. Hot keepers just use venom glands now.

[drache]

well, the NYC laws use the term
(watch it - garters will be next on the list of snakes deemed too dangerous . . . )
I think the dangers from either a garter bite or a bite from a hognose snake are practically non-existing
but you do have to take into account persons with an experimental mind-set
every account that I have read, when a person needed care after a garter or hognose bite, it involved prolonged chewing
so I just consider it a matter of caution to inform people
all of my garter bites were strictly accidental and there was never any chewing, or hanging on involved
I've never noticed any itching or irritation
I've never gotten bit by my hognose

[Bay_area]

Excellent point, but I'd still consider tetanus a bigger risk. ;)


Yep! Good point, I was bitten in the third grade by a fellow classmate. I believe that was worse than any colubrid bite:p

[RZL36]

I'm pretty sure it is the combination of prolonged bite and allergic reaction for anything to happen (in a very small number of cases). I tested this myself, and let me say that it took a lot to get the garter to bite me (scenting my finger), and I had no reaction at all.

Worst bite I ever took was from a German Sheppard. That really hurt.

Garter bites are 999 time out of a 1,000 are inconsequential

[anji1971]

I didn't even know garters had teeth until shortly after I first got mine!! I found out by surprise that yes, they do and they know how to use them too!!!:D
But I'd take a bite from one of these guys any day compared to all the cats and dog bites from my childhood!

[drache]

Mikhaila is far more wary of the gerbils than the snakes
those little fur balls have wicked teeth

[Stefan-A]

Rodents (hamsters in my case) have drawn more blood from me than all other animals put together. :D With the possible exception of pike (Esox lucius). ;)

[Lori P]

It was a horse who drew the most blood from me, even more than past dog bites... she slammed her head down and bit me on top of my head. Gave me a concussion and lots of blood loss... you know how head wounds are. Lesson learned: don't lean under a blind horse who is eating and might mistake you for a goat grabbing for her food. LOL

[RZL36]

Rodents are the worse. They bite and scratch. I would rather be bit by the biggest garter snake than any rat or mouse.

[drache]

didn't we have "worst bite" thread somewhere before?
this seems so familiar somehow

[Stefan-A]

Sort of. :) http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/1471-worst-injury.html

[drache]

Sort of. :) http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/1471-worst-injury.html

yeah
that must be it
it's where I wrote about the cat-bite requiring an ER visit

[Lulu Bennett]

i disagree. you guys have not met our budgie bella. he has a nasty bite, especially if you have the rmote lol ouch!!!