salmonella

[drache]

I just got through reading an article on turtles and salmonella and proper hygiene and all that
now I need to add that I am also a health professional trained in the clean needle protocol, according to which one gets to wash ones hands a minimum of four times per patient
and I just realize that the salmonella article left out, that one is supposed to wash ones hands for the entire time it take to sing the happy birthday song ("thoroughly" is not a sufficiently exact term for children)
in addition I have a chronic viral disease that kind of pre-occupies my immune system and puts me into the elevated risk category
and I am all for hand washing
well maybe not "all"
in fact, I think it can be overdone
and I am against hand sanitizers, because they have been shown to be ineffective and can mess with one's natural defenses
I must say that a part of me wants to scream every time I read these hygiene instructions
they imply that I need to disinfect my entire house every time a reptile has been out of it's cage
all that because people used to think it's cute to see their toddler suck on a baby turtle
there's got to be some measure of moderation between the two extremes
I wash my hands after handling reptiles, but I must confess
I do not disinfect my bathroom after I flush a lizard poop
what's the chance of picking up salmonella from a toilet seat given that I don't vomit any more?
the lizard does get to run around the kitchen and I don't disinfect it, because I don't let him on the table and we don't eat on the floor
but according to the article I read, those two items alone qualify me as irresponsible
even worse
I get lizard greens out of the fridge, after just having handled their food dishes
some enterprising germs could easily make it from my fingertips to the back of my hand where they can then jump onto anything in the fridge, hang out on it and proliferate until the food gets washed
and according to the article I read, I should not even be allowed near a reptile cage
I tell you
this is a far cry from getting me out of cleaning the litterbox when I was pregnant - that was just convenient
I "should not be allowed near the reptile or it's cage" - that's fricking paranoid
it makes it seem like salmonelly is out to get us and will leap across distances of what? - 3"? 4"? - what's near? - to accomplish it's evil purposes

all that being said
I think there's a host of other good reasons not to give a toddler a baby turtle

[Charlet_2007]

Never herd that before... we have 20+ mice, 6 rats, 5 snakes, 3 turtles, 3 dogs, 2 cats, 2 Tarantula's, 1 nile montior, 1 box turtle, also with 2 kids ages 1 year old and 2 years old.. We have never gotten sick from anything animal or reptile.. I know some lizards like iguanas carry salmonella tho... but never turtles...

[RZL36]

Turtles carry salmonella. That is why it is illegal to keep them in so many states.

[Stefan-A]

Something like 90% of all reptiles carry salmonella, but the risk is severely exaggerated. Anyway, it's best to just not eat their poo. ;)

[RZL36]

Well said, but I've been growing so fond of it:(.

I think turtles carry a greater risk b/c they are in the water. The water becomes contaminated and the bacteria reproduce on the turtle itself. However, I really don't know. Not into microbiology.

[Charlet_2007]

thats where you clean the water once a day if not twice lol do not let it get stagnit (spelling?)

no the reason its illegal to keep turtles in soo many states is because they may be native to that state not because of salmonella.. if that was true then no pet store would sell them anywhere... like here in Missouri its illegal buy/sell red ear sliders under 4 inches.. over 4 inches you sell all day long.. because there native here...

Also just like alligators.. you don't have to have a permit to have one here in Missouri.. I live 10 mins from the Arkansas border but, in Arkansas its illegal to have them.. Just depends on the state and its laws...

[RZL36]

In New Jersey, the reason is salmonella.

http://www.state.nj.us/health/cd/documents/njac_823.pdf

[Charlet_2007]

yeah but dogs can have rabies just as well as retiles haveing salmonella but the percentage if retials haveing salmonella is VERRRRRRRRY low.. but you don't see people complaining about the rabies dogs have.. reptiles have a bad rep. anyways its always them that make people sick.. not there own stupidity to buying a reptile then not taking care of it properly and then them blaming the reptile because they get sick...

best way to handle this don't get a reptile if you think your going to contract something from it.. :rolleyes:

[drache]

Something like 90% of all reptiles carry salmonella, but the risk is severely exaggerated. Anyway, it's best to just not eat their poo. ;)

yeah
precisely my thinking

and
in the article in question they were referring to a state where they prohibit the sale of turtles under 4" carapace length, specifically because the small ones are the ones likely to end up in children's mouths

[Lori P]

W-w-w-what??????

No more poo eating????

But what if I boil it first?????

[Charlet_2007]

lmao:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Stefan-A]

W-w-w-what??????

No more poo eating????

But what if I boil it first?????
Mmm... snake poo soup..

[Lulu Bennett]

as long as there is peppers and onions in there

[drache]

add a lot of ginger, garlick and seaweed and you should be fine
but I'll stick to miso over snake poo

[ssssnakeluvr]

salmonelli is a common gut bacteria in most reptiles.....I have been handling reptiles for probably 40 years now....never been sick. I just use common sense...wash my hands after cleaning and feeding or if one poops on me, but if I just show one and handle it, i don't bother.

[adamanteus]

I ate a pinky once.....just out of curiosity.

[Stefan-A]

How was it? Good?

[Frankie_Garter]

I ate a pinky once.....just out of curiosity. EEEEEEW!! YOU ARE SOOO LYING. PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE LYING!! :eek:

[drache]

I ate a pinky once.....just out of curiosity.

oh I'm sure, if I had a sudden protein craving and nothing else of that nature in the house, they might do nicely stir-fried with some veggies
but that's not what you meant, is it?

[adamanteus]

It kind of looked like bubble-gum, so............

[Lulu Bennett]

james you tramp eyywww!

[RZL36]

I paid someone to eat one and they did. Said it tasted terrible.

[Charlet_2007]

you all are disgusting lol altho i have ate my self no lieing squarrl brains, frog legs, bull testicals ( AKA rocky mountain oysters), and baby goat... :eek:

[GrapefruiTgirl]

I'm inclined to think that by the same token as banning certain animals because they carry salmonella, they ought to ban chicken from the grocery store because of it, and pork too for risk of trichomoniasis worms burrowing into ones eyes while they sleep, after having cooked pork for supper and rubbed ones eyes afterwards without having washed their hands. :confused:
Also, I think that some chicken or pork that lays rotting and festering in the refrigerator would pose a far greater health hazard than the average reptile, under average circumstances :)

LOL, my two cents ;)

[RZL36]

People have told me about my snakes having salmonella. I've obviously took into account their words of wisdom and threw all my snakes in the garbage.

[adamanteus]

If we banned everything that might carry some unpleasant bacteria, we'd all have to live in a vacuum and eat paper.

[Stefan-A]

I'm inclined to think that by the same token as banning certain animals because they carry salmonella, they ought to ban chicken from the grocery store because of it, and pork too for risk of trichomoniasis worms burrowing into ones eyes while they sleep, after having cooked pork for supper and rubbed ones eyes afterwards without having washed their hands. :confused:
Also, I think that some chicken or pork that lays rotting and festering in the refrigerator would pose a far greater health hazard than the average reptile, under average circumstances :)

LOL, my two cents ;)
:) Sort of depends on where you live, different countries have different standards when it comes to chickens, for example. Sweden for example has a complete zero tolerance policy regarding salmonella in chickens. Close to 0% of the chickens raised there carry the bacteria and less than 10% in the rest of the Nordic countries and Western Europe, compared to 90% of the reptiles (could be wrong , I only used one source).

Overall, we all seem to agree that the salmonella "threat" is exaggerated.

[GrapefruiTgirl]

... Sweden for example has a complete zero tolerance policy regarding salmonella in chickens. Close to 0% of the chickens raised there carry the bacteria and less than 10% in the rest of the Nordic countries and Western Europe, compared to 90% of the reptiles (could be wrong , I only used one source).

Really?? That's news to me, seriously! I thought (mistakenly?) that raw chicken by its very nature contained salmonella. And accordingly, one should never eat raw chicken.
Does that mean that theoretically, one could eat raw Sedish chicken, and not get food poisoning?
Wow...
I think I'll stick with the cooked variety :p

[Stefan-A]

Really?? That's news to me, seriously! I thought (mistakenly?) that raw chicken by its very nature contained salmonella. And accordingly, one should never eat raw chicken.
Does that mean that theoretically, one could eat raw Sedish chicken, and not get food poisoning?
Wow...
I think I'll stick with the cooked variety :p
It varies a lot. Portugal and Poland had salmonella in about 77-80% of their chickens about a year ago, Spain somewhere around 90%. I think the US was somewhere between 20-30%, although that's probably old info.

Naturally, you should always assume that it contains salmonella and cook it properly. Undercooked chicken tastes awful anyway. ;)

[MoJo]

I would be shocked if 90% of reptiles carried salmonella. I would like to know where you got that statistic. Far more people who have reptiles would get salmonella.

Salmonella in NA is much more common in poultry and eggs. You are far more likely to get salmonella from uncooked/undercooked chicken or eggs or from the counters that they were prepared on!

The pork tapeworm, Taenia solium, does not burrow into eyes while you are sleeping! Humans get it by eating undercooked infected pork and part of the tapeworm's life cycle brings into the brain! It is there that the problems can occur because the larvae in the brain can cause seizures.

Trichomoniasis is a sexually transmitted protozoa.

Joanna

[Stefan-A]

I would be shocked if 90% of reptiles carried salmonella. I would like to know where you got that statistic. Far more people who have reptiles would get salmonella.
I got it from the CDC. :D Salmonella is really common, you could even say that it's normal for reptiles to carry it.

[MoJo]

I'd like to know where they got it from then. I really find it hard to believe that since I think a lot more people would be sick. Most people don't wash their hands and if they do they do not do it properly.

Joanna

[Stefan-A]

I don't know anybody who doesn't was their hands (soap and water) after handling reptiles or anything that has been in the terrarium. People are kind of paranoid about salmonella here. :)

Again, I admit I could be wrong, but it's spread with the feces and has to be ingested.

[MoJo]

You are correct that it is spread by ingesting the feces. However since snakes will slither through their substrate there is a good chance they could have salmonella all over their bodies. By the same reasoning any surface they slither on could have salmonella on it - your hands, your clothes, the carpet, the floor, the counter, your chair... Touch a surface and put your hand near or in your mouth and voila you can be infected. There would be far more cases of salmonella if 90% of our pets carried it.

You might be paranoid about salmonella but I think the vast majority of people do not really understand what truly proper hand hygiene means. The next time you wash your hands sing Happy Birthday twice, as has already been mentioned, and then let me know if that is how long you usually wash your hands for. Then think about whether or not you were wearing rings, did you scrub under them, did you scrub the tips of your fingers, in between your fingers.....It is not enough to get soap on the majority of your hands or even to have your entire hand be wet!

Joanna

[Charlet_2007]

People have told me about my snakes having salmonella. I've obviously took into account their words of wisdom and threw all my snakes in the garbage.


I seriously hope your kidding? right? :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[ssssnakeluvr]

I have read that salmonella is a normal gut bacteria...

[Stefan-A]

I have read that salmonella is a normal gut bacteria...
Norma (asymptomatic at least) for reptiles and only becomes a problem if they develop some kind of imbalance. Salmonellosis can for example occur due to too low temperatures or stress.

[drache]

didn't have that root beer flavour though, huh?
and a bit more crunch I imagine

[Stefan-A]

They don't look that crunchy to me.


We are talking about James' pinky eating, right? ;)

[drache]

pinkies have got more bones than bubble gum - that's got to affect the texture toward the crunchy end of the spectrum

[Stefan-A]

Depends on the bubblegum, some are pretty crunchy initially. The pinkies however don't offer much in terms of crunchiness or crispiness when you cut them up. Pretty soft bones.

[drache]

you're right
I'd forgotten about the gum with the crunchy exterior
I was thinking of the soft pink stuff

[Lori P]

I love these threads... Salmonella in turtles to snake poo soup to eating pinkies to crunchy pink bubblegum... of course, that's all a natural progression... :-)

[anji1971]

EWWWW...........just got around to reading thru this thread..............not so sure it was a great idea..............but wait -- I think i'm getting a craving for soup, and bubblegum.......:p:p:p:p:p

[Stefan-A]

And I just got 40 pinkies really cheap. :D

[anji1971]

LOL!! Wonder what wine goes well with poo soup and pinkie bubblegum????
...........a nice Merlot?..........maybe Zinfandel................??:D:p:D

[drache]

LOL!! Wonder what wine goes well with poo soup and pinkie bubblegum????
...........a nice Merlot?..........maybe Zinfandel................??:D:p:D

I'd say that combo requires a stiff shot of something stronger than wine

[Charlet_2007]

id say 6 shots of vodka.................. before eating lmao :D:D:D:D:D

[anji1971]

Well, you know, I mentioned a craving, Stefan mentioned his 40 pinkies. I thought maybe he was inviting me on a dinner date.................hence the wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D

[drache]

if it was just the pinkies, I'd say - go for a nice wine
but the poop soup
and the bubblegum

[Stefan-A]

if it was just the pinkies, I'd say - go for a nice wine

Port or red? ;)

[GarterGirl]

Mmm... snake poo soup..Don't even think about it!:rolleyes: lol, :D

[GarterGirl]

I ate a pinky once.....just out of curiosity.Once I ate a cricket and cat foood.

[GarterGirl]

It kind of looked like bubble-gum, so............That gets me thinking! Lets put some bubblegum in the soup!

[GarterGirl]

and pork too for risk of trichomoniasis worms burrowing into ones eyes while they sleep,And they could have mAd cOw!!
But I like chicken. Its the only reason I'm not a vegetarian.

[GarterGirl]

People have told me about my snakes having salmonella. I've obviously took into account their words of wisdom and threw all my snakes in the garbage.Why?:( Waaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaaaaaaa! You could have given them to me! lol:D lol:D lol:D

[GarterGirl]

I think the US was somewhere between 20-30%, although that's probably old info.Phew, I love chicken. WAIT A SECOND! OLD INFO???:(

[anji1971]

Once I ate a cricket and cat foood.

My older brother ate a spider when he was a kid- a daddy longlegs, i believe! My mother says she had to spend a good half hour picking the legs from between his teeth.............MMMMM!!!:D:D

But in many parts of the world, bugs are eaten quite regularly, and no one seems the worse for it, but I'm sure glad I live here!!;)

[drache]

Once I ate a cricket and cat foood.

she also loves those green waffle hamster treats

[anji1971]

When I was little I used to munch on the dog's MilkBone's treats, but just the green ones-must be something about green.........;)

[Stefan-A]

My older brother ate a spider when he was a kid- a daddy longlegs, i believe! My mother says she had to spend a good half hour picking the legs from between his teeth.............MMMMM!!!:D:D

But in many parts of the world, bugs are eaten quite regularly, and no one seems the worse for it, but I'm sure glad I live here!!;)
I'll eat anything from the animal kingdom. I might cook it first, but I'll eat it. :D

[Lori P]

she also loves those green waffle hamster treats

LOLOL.... Mikhaila, you poor dear, these are the things your mother will be telling your first date some day.... :-)!!!!!

[Lori P]

I'll eat anything from the animal kingdom. I might cook it first, but I'll eat it. :D

Sigh... me too. It's awful, really, because I love all animals dearly, and respect them greatly.... it's just that they taste so damn good.... LOL!!!!! Because I run a rescue, most people assume I'm a vegetarian. And I tried... I really did, I was a vegetarian for years after high school, all thru college and into about my third year of marriage. But I wasn't happy and I always, always craved meat.

So my compromise to the animal kingdom is, we now raise our own meat animals. This way I'm not eating factory farmed animals; our critters live lives free to graze, play, interact with their own kind, are fed well and plenty and treated with mucho kindness. Their lives end very quickly and humanely with our butcher only being 10 minutes up the road. It's not always easy, tho... like right now, it is past time to send our two pigs but I've been putting it off. They're so darn cute and happy. They roam free on the property and frequently sleep on the front porch!! Yeah-- I know, I know:

You might be a redneck if you have to step over your hogs on your way to the front yard....

[Lulu Bennett]

i couldn't do what you do. if i raised an animal, i couldn't kill it even if it was life and death. i get way to attached to animals lol i would perfer to eat an animal that has been killed before i meet it on my plate lol.

I do really respect what you do though!

[Lori P]

Well, it was a long process to get to this point. But after seeing the way meat animals are raised-- the factory farms, the feedlots, the slaughterhouse horrors, I decided there was no way I could eat animals that had suffered for their entire lives. I may be attached to the ones we raise, but that's my problem to deal with.. at least they live happy and free, if short, lives.

And omg, the taste is 1000% better than grocery store meat!!!!!!!!! I really think a large part of it, too, is that our animals never feel any fear.

[Lulu Bennett]

And omg, the taste is 1000% better than grocery store meat!!!!!!!!! I really think a large part of it, too, is that our animals never feel any fear.

well fear releases adrenaline and aload of other chemicals and this can taint the flavour but i am not suprised on the taste being better than store bought meat.

[drache]

I grew up in an environment where taking care of the animals you ate was considered important
even the hunters did not just go out and shoot
they sat and observed the animal they were going to shoot for about a month
this may sound weird to people who don't know that animals have habits and will (unless something interferes) go to the same places and follow their routines every day - even weekends
if you don't know the animal, you don't know what you're eating
perhaps one of the oddest phenomena I've encountered in the US is that the vast majority of people don't seem to care what they're eating

[Lori P]

Here in the southeast, hunters hunt with dog packs. It's absolutely disgusting. They all get in their 4 wheel drive trucks, load up 100 hounds, and drop them in the woods. Then they sit there and drink beer for hours while the dogs run the deer in a huge circle and eventually head them back for the trucks. And then they all start shooting, and oops, if you hit a dog by mistake, oh well, those hounds are a dime a dozen. And the deer you only wound, no biggie, you shot the sh$#@ out of a dozen others.

So the deer are run into the ground and petrified, the dogs are kept in small filthy pens and barely fed for most of the year 'cause they only use them for two months, and loads of dogs end up abandoned in the woods, hit on the roads, shot and wounded and left to die... the whole thing is a nightmare.

If you're a hunter in this area who hunts with dogs, I hope I haven't offended you, but I also sure hope you take better care of your hounds. Every year, and it's getting ready to start up again, I spend the winter picking up sick, starving, injured hounds and driving around the corpses of the ones on the roads. Deer die in my pastures of gunshot wounds inflicted after they ran for miles to get away from the dogs. Yeah, I'm pretty bitter about it.

[drache]

that's totally barbaric and uncivilized
I'd call those guys pigs if that wasn't an insult to sus scrofa
where I come from this kind of behavior is illegal (as it should be)

[Lori P]

Oh, I wish it could be stopped. And the thing is too, we don't allow hunting on our property, but of course the dogs run through and run all "our" deer back to the hunters too. There's no way to keep the dogs from going everywhere.

But it's the south, and there's that good ole' boy network still strong and in place, so there will never be laws against hunting with dogs. They never spay or neuter, and they turn out pregnant and nursing dogs to run, so sometimes you find a momma dog trying to carry her puppies across the road... it's just awful.

[drache]

thanks Lori
I've heard enough
I'm gonna get me a gun and go shoot me summa 'em rednecks
mount their heads on some subway cars
that oughta scare off the rats

[Lori P]

LOL!! Come on down, we'll go a-hunting together!!

[RZL36]

Take it easy. The NSA is watching.

[Lori P]

The National Skunk Association? The Norwegian Snake Association? The Narcisitic Slug Association? Tha Nanny Sitting Association?

[RZL36]

The Narcisitic Slug Association?

That is kinda what the NSA actually is. I would expect my internet privileges revoked soon enough.