How to 'preserve' snake treats (salamanders) over winter?

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Mainly my snakies' diet is pinky mice, and I'll be trying out fuzzy mice in a few weeks to see if she'll eat them too.
But she LOVES salamanders! And worms too, but she really loves salamanders, whether I give them to her by hand, or lately drop them in her water dish so she can chase them down (which takes a matter of seconds :) and since they're wet, she gets less 'gunk' stuck on her).
I feed her the pinky mice on the weekend, currently one pinky per weekend, and I give her several worms and/or salamanders through the week. I spoil her, I think :rolleyes:.

Anyhow, has anyone got any suggestions about 'preserving' salamanders over the winter? I've come to the conclusion that they'll probably end up being dead, most likely, however, here's the specific questions:

1 - If they were 'hibernating' maybe in the fridge, would they live?
2 - Can they be frozen? And if so, is there a thiaminase issue or other issue I should consider? (I've yet to determine whether she'll eat a dead salamander).
3 - Assuming they must be frozen, and she'll eat them, how should I freeze them? I'm figuring just tossing them one at a time into a plastic container in the freezer. Perhaps when they are solid, they should be bagged, to avoid freezerburn??

I've got about a dozen of them at the moment, and before they get hungry I'd like to figure out what to do with them.

Thanks for the input!

[mikm]

Hello Tgirl ... I kept frozen leapord frogs for scenting pinks for E_Black Necks. In regards to #3 I would bag them with freezer baggies as you sugested. I find that to make a huge difference in in the food quality.

Best Wishes,

[GarterGuy]

Hello Tgirl ... I kept frozen leapord frogs for scenting pinks for E_Black Necks. In regards to #3 I would bag them with freezer baggies as you sugested. I find that to make a huge difference in in the food quality.

Best Wishes,

Marian,
Can I ask where you get your leopard frogs? I've been looking for a frozen frog supplier.....I'm thinking of working with hognoses in the near future and although they will be eating mice, I think it'll be good for them to have frogs as well...and I'd like to have them for my garters too.

Sasha,
Yeh, you should be able to freeze them with out too many worries. I freeze lots of different stuff for my critters and they seem to accept it just as well as the "fresh" stuff. I actually use tin foil though and wrap everything seperate. Hate using too much of that plastic stuff.:p

[mikm]

Hello Roy, The guy I bought E.BlackNecks from sent them to me along with a shipment of baby E's to help cut them over to f/t pinks. I have long since lost touch with him Roy, sorry ...

Enjoy Your Day,

[GrapefruiTgirl]

:) Snaky is in my left sleeve browsing the site with me! Excuse my righthanded typing :P
I have put a container of salamanders in the fridge, and they seem to be quite---- umm.. 'still'.. I think they do hibernate [admittedly havent researches 'manders much] but will either plain move em to the freezer, or maybe do like in Alan Francis' fish-jello recipe, and put them into 'suspended-jello-animation' :) who knows, maybe they'll come back to life when I un-suspend them, but the jello will prevent freezerburn too AFAIK.. Will let you'se know how it goes -- but must go, got a silly snakie trying to wiggle into my chair cushions :O lol, take care :) back soon!

[paclc1]

what salamanders and frogs are safe for garters to eat? would love to vary the diet of mine a bit? Thanks!

[brandon0133]

seems like they eat almost anything,,lol

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Indeed they seem not to be too fussy :)
The standard issue salamander with the red stripe(s) down the back are favourited of my snakie. Also, here in Nova Scotia (and surely other places) we have these Yello-polka-dotted newts' which snakie also likes very much.
The newts are apparently very good to see around if you are a gardener, as they eat slugs and other plant predators, but they are also good snake treats. They are like salamanders in that they secrete mildly poisonous secretions out of their skin when they are attacked, but garter snakes are immune to this secretion. The newts are more rare than salamanders, but I have found a half dozen or so of them.
Currently I have about 2 dozen normal salamanders frozen in a container in the freezer, I froze a half-inch of water in the bottom of the container first, to attampt to combat freezer-burn, but either way, snakie has no qualms about eating thawed salamanders. I proclaim frozen salamanders a success :)
Toads and small frogs are also welcomed by the snakes, but the thing about this is the potential for high parasite load in these reptiles. I did give my snakie one frog a number of weeks/months ago, and she loved it, but I have since avoided them since learning of the parasite potential.

[drache]

is the parasite potential lower in salamanders and newts?

[GrapefruiTgirl]

@ drache - from what I have read, the simple answer is YES, the parasite count is apparently lower in salamanders than it would be in wild fish or frogs. For what reasons, whether mere size of the animals, or habitat, I have no idea. Information about relative parasite load hasn't been jumping out at me.
That said, NO wild prey are parasite free. It comes down to what is a natural balance, ie: how many parasites would the snake(s) normally eat in the wild, and how many is the snake accustomed (and genetically/evolved to be capable) to accomodating.
It would make sense that a snake eating a diet of 100% frogs, would soon have a very unhealthy parasite load, moreso than it would encounter in the wild. Therefore, while a single frog once in a while is probably OK, I simply choose to avoid them from now on, as there are enough other food sources around that I have no need to risk frogs.
Maybe the TYPES of parasite in frogs, are of less concern than those found in salamanders as well. Ultimately, I figure, samalanders are a far more common and regular food source than frogs, so whatever parasites may be inside salamanders, the snake is probably more accustomed to them and/or immune to them.
On this subject, not sure if I mentioned it elsewhere, but my snakie is now eating fuzzy mice :) and she seems to have a grand time dragging and flopping the mouse all around her cage before finally deciding to chow down on it :)

[paclc1]

do you think the parasites are passed from parents to kids in frogs? and are you feeding your guys cb or wc salamanders and newts? i like what your doing !!

[GrapefruiTgirl]

In my case, I am using wild-caught salamanders. The newts are rare, so I've only given her maybe 3 of them.
The wild-caught aspect is why I am freezing them, because soon it will be winter here so there will be none outside :) and now I have several dozen salamanders frozen.

As far as parasites being passed to offspring in frogs/toads, I don't know, but I suspect it is possible. I DO KNOW based on research I've done, that tadpoles DO also carry parasites; the question is 'where do they get them'

[ssssnakeluvr]

I do believe some parasite can be transmitted from parents to babies...