Fish Killer :-(

[Lori P]

Ok. Having guilt.

Ordering frozen rodents is one thing. It's not so bad. I researched companies and looked for one that seemed to care about the welfare of the rodents they were raising. I mean, I don't have a problem with death; death is part of life. Almost all animals eat other animals. I eat other animals. But I raise them myself and I treat them with due respect. Death does not bother me... suffering does. So I wanted frozen rodents that weren't killed in some horrible way and lived fairly decent lives.

So here's my problem. One of the Pugets is a very picky fella. I've not been able to get him to eat. Until this morning... when I found one of the feeder fish had flipped out of the water bowl. It was still damp, so I put it in a very shallow dish of water in front of him-- and he devoured it!

So he wants already dead fish.

Peachy. Except... I don't want to be the one to kill the fish! I don't know how to do it kindly! My own fish, I anesthesize with clove oil... but obviously can't do that with a feeder fish. So what do you do?? Put them straight in the freezer?? Is that awful? Whack 'em on their little fishy heads? (Ugh.)

Ideas?

[enigma200316]

putting them straight into the freezer is probably the best way, but thats
my opinion and I'm sure other poeple will have some other ways......:D

[zooplan]

Try to feed him a normal tawed feeder fish on the same dish in a few days.
I would guess that you don´t need to kill fishes just before feeding.

[Lori P]

Udo-- and that's the problem-- I haven't found already frozen feeder fish. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. The pets store and bait stores around me don't have frozen feeders... just live.

[Stefan-A]

Ok. Having guilt.

Ordering frozen rodents is one thing. It's not so bad. I researched companies and looked for one that seemed to care about the welfare of the rodents they were raising. I mean, I don't have a problem with death; death is part of life. Almost all animals eat other animals. I eat other animals. But I raise them myself and I treat them with due respect. Death does not bother me... suffering does. So I wanted frozen rodents that weren't killed in some horrible way and lived fairly decent lives.

So here's my problem. One of the Pugets is a very picky fella. I've not been able to get him to eat. Until this morning... when I found one of the feeder fish had flipped out of the water bowl. It was still damp, so I put it in a very shallow dish of water in front of him-- and he devoured it!

So he wants already dead fish.

Peachy. Except... I don't want to be the one to kill the fish! I don't know how to do it kindly! My own fish, I anesthesize with clove oil... but obviously can't do that with a feeder fish. So what do you do?? Put them straight in the freezer?? Is that awful? Whack 'em on their little fishy heads? (Ugh.)

Ideas?
I don't think there's a kind way to kill anything. The best advice I can come up with, is to just set your feelings aside and do it. Not very useful, I know.

The freezer is pretty easy both for you and the fish. At least there's no use of force involved and they're out of sight when they die.

[ssssnakeluvr]

you can buy trout at the store and cut it into small chunks and freeze it. youi can then thaw what you need for a feeding and place it in the cage. no one I know of has frozen feeder fish.....

[Lori P]

Thank you guys! Stephan, you're right, if I'm going to have these snakes I need to quit being so wimpy. My choice to have them, so I gotta buck up! I agree the freezer is probably relatively quick...

Actually, the good news to this is, he also ate part of a pinky that I put in the dish with the dead fish! So I think he is well on his way!! :-) :-)

[adamanteus]

Sounds like he's going to be a good eater. As Don says, you may not have to use whole frozen/thawed feeder fish. Try him on strips of trout, all my Garters take trout.

[Lori P]

Strips of trout it is. :-) Thank you!! It's soooooo good to see him eating, I was getting very worried! The other one eats pretty much anything he sees, lol!

I haven't gotten any worms yet... that might be a big thing for both of them.

:-)

[Lori P]

LOL... I'm walking thru the kitchen a minute ago and this little plastic fish caught my eye... HE'S ACCUSING ME!!!! LOL

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/fish_face_close_up.jpg

[GrapefruiTgirl]

On the subject of trout, I came across a recipe for garter snake food on the net, on an apparently otherwise sensible website. The guy claimed it worked perfectly for him,.
The basic idea was to blend the (fresh, raw, gutted, whole) trout in the blender, and then mix it with enough plain clear gelatine to set it, and then score the stuff and freeze it.
When it's time to feed, break off a piece on a score-line, thaw and serve.
Well, I tried it, with a whole trout (minus two filets for me and the roommate) and used 2 packets of gelatine according to the directions.
Snaky wasn't enthused. She won't even look at the horrid stuff, and frankly I don't blame her.

So, if it works for you, that's great -- a decent form of food for the winter, and thiaminase-free. But just incase you haven't tried the recipe if you've been wondering about it, that's my experience with it.

LOL, now I have a frozen tray of fish jello.. Ugh.. Well, 'something' that lives outdoors will surely like it :)

[adamanteus]

I'm guessing that would be Alan Francis' recipe? I haven't tried it myself (on my Garters I mean!) but the idea is really good....the beauty of throwing the whole thing in the blender is that you get to give skin and bone to your snakes, rather than just lean meat. When I get around to it I'll give it a try.

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Indeed -- it is a great idea, nutritionally.
Something else I should have mentioned -- have a STURDY blender, maybe of a 1/2 horsepower atleast :D:D because a raw fish is TOUGH to blend. I could smell my blender burning up by the time I was done. It took a while, and isn't as easy as it sounds! Maybe chop the thing up small first...

[enigma200316]

you'd better watch out or your gonna be in trouble...............:D

[ssssnakeluvr]

that is Alan Francis's recipe, very good.... I just buy fresh trout, cut it into pieces and freeze it....thaw out what I need for feeding.

[adamanteus]

That's exactly what I do, Don.

[RZL36]

Though these garters are babies, would anyone consider them ready for rodents yet?

All that fish fillet preparing sounds like too much work. Aren't rodents the best food for garters anyway?


Are they big enough to take down a whole pinkie? If not, try scented (with whatever you are feeding them now) mouse tails.

IMO, that blender stuff sounds like it smells terrible. Nej tack.

RD

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Actually, the blender stuff doesn't smell at all, suprising enough.

And yes, mice are nutritionally complete, and are a healthy full-time diet for snakies.
As to whether snakies are big enough to eat pinkies yet, you'll hafta find out as time goes on, but I am suprised at what size an object mine can eat. Their jaws are separated, and held together by ligaments, and their bodies are really stretchy, so WITHIN REASON they can eat relatively large things. Before I learned about parasites, I put a frog in her tank. Eventually the frog hopped around a bit, and she nabbed it right out of the air and ate it! It took her a few minutes to get it down, but she apparently enjoyed it.

[RZL36]

I couldn't agree more grapefruitgirl. However, if you are from Nova Scotia, you probably can't smell fish anymore (j/k). In my opinion I would get them on rodents. Scented mouse tails or pinky bits are great for baby snakes.

[mikm]

Lori, One of my adult Pugets that is not too crazy about f/t pinks, recently chowed down on chunks of canned salmon. It was my very first attempt offering canned salmon so perhaps beginners luck ;)

Best of Luck,

[RZL36]

Wipe some salmon on the pinks and you should be okay.

[Lori P]

Thanks Marian! I'll try the salmon as well!

I had to thaw out 4 pinkies this morning because the cats kept nabbing them off the counter... LOL... they've never done that before! I guess I better order more the next time!

[GrapefruiTgirl]

I'm happy to hear that your snake likes canned salmon! I did try canned tuna several times for mine, but she just shoved it around and otherwise ignored it. I didn't have any salmon at the time, as I eat tuna every day but not necessarily salmon too often.
I'm going to try that sometime though! Might be a nice treat for her on occasion, plus salmon in the can has some bones -- good for calcium.