Might they inbreed? Eek! I don't want a two-headed one-eyed snake.

[GrapefruiTgirl]

So,I was out doing my usual prowling the yard and surroundings here at home, looking for dragonflies, salamanders, worms, and of course, snakeys :) and I found what I believe to be one of the offspring of my pet Maritime Garter (T.s. pallidulus). I had released them all outside after she had them a few weeks ago, figuring one snake would be enough to deal with for the time being.
I decided today I would bring this little one inside and raise her/him, for several reasons:
1 - Having the snake know me from its 'childhood' as it grows, must be an easier adjustment for it than being caught as an adult. Therefore it might end up being an overall more 'tame', calm snake. Do you agree?
2 - They were all very pretty. The little one is SO CUTE!!
3 - The two can keep each other company.
4 - two snakeys is better than one, because it's one more :)

So, as for housing them together eventually (sooner than later, if possible), I have a few questions:

1 - **if** they are related (mother/offspring) will they know it? As for this, let's say they DID realize they were related or knew each other, would they still mate if it ever came to that and they were of the right sexes? Would this be bad? I mean, would it be like the movie "The Hills Have Eyes" only with snakes?

2 - I currently have the little one (about 6 inches long) in a temporary housing, made of a casserole dish, with brown paper in it, a water dish, and a place to hide. There's no heat source specific to the temporary tank, but it's comfortable around here for now. What should I consider regarding *when* to put the little one in with the big one? Things like relative size, or the chance of one attacking the other (not likely I don't think, but..) ?

3 - Maybe I could place this casserole dish INSIDE the big main snake tank, so the little one can benefit from the heat/lighting? It has a screen top, so the two snakes would remain 'separate' for now.

Any opinions welcome! Thanks for reading.

[ssssnakeluvr]

snakes won't recognize parents. If this one is a baby of the one you have, inbreeding won't hurt. that's how some of the morphs are created. you have to breed ones that carry the gene to each other to get the gene to show up. you wouldn't want to breed their offspring back to each other and their offspring to each other, as it generally takes a few generations before abnormalities that could be harmful show up, but it's possible for them to show up in the first breeding.
you can put them together, however, most of us keep babies separated from adults to prevent accidents or possible cannibalism. if they were close to the same size then keeping them together is fine. if the baby crawled thru fish to eat and mom smelled the fish on the baby, it could become moms lunch.

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Interesting, and helpful. Thank you for the tips.
I think I will plan to keep them together relatively (no pun intended) soon. As the big one doesn't seem to like fish, there's not much danger of either of them getting into any. I figure, to guard against possible cannibalism, I'll feed the larger one first, outside the tank, and when she's done eating, I'll feed the little one outside the tank. That way I figure they ought to both be 'full' when they next meet up.
Once the little one gains some size, I'll be less concerned.

Thanks again, ssssnakeluvr!

[ssssnakeluvr]

you're welcome!! glad to help!!

[Lori P]

We were just talking about inbreeding, because I don't know the sex of these baby Pugets. I don't plan to breed, but more so I don't plan to breed brothers and sisters! So at what age can these little guys be accurately sexed?

[ssssnakeluvr]

they can be popped when thay are babuies, up to about 2-3 months, and can be probed at any age...probing is better when they are bigger as little ones can be injured by probing if not done carefully.

[Snaky]

For the experienced eye they can be visually sexed when they are 1 year. But you can always be wrong :)

[RZL36]

My garters seem to be displaying some sort of behavior that might actually be breeding or a precursor to breeding.

Let me start by saying they look nearly the same. Basically the same cloacal views, but I don't know for sure if they are male or female (as some people may know, my beginning with keeping garters comes from my inability to feed them to one of my kings and instead falling in love with their personalities).

However, they seem to be wrapping up with each other and then darting around. For active garters, these guys are getting really active. All through the night I hear them literally hitting the top of the cage. I'm thinking they are two males actively seeking mates, but finding the cage rather difficult to get through. At what age in years, on average, do they reach sexual maturity and at what size can you start considering them ready for breeding?

Also, I have never bred snakes before (in fact tried very hard to not do so), but would garter snakes be good snakes to learn how to breed or would I be better off with the things I know better like kings and pines?

Thanks in advance,
RD

[Lori P]

You know, Sasha, the more I think about it, the more I think a two headed one eyed snake would be quite fun. And I charge you with inventing the crazy little thing. Go forth and create! LOL!

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Hehehe.. Well, I cannot answer RD's question(s) but I will be interested in seeing the replies.

And Lori, I haven't yet gotten this little guy to eat anything. It's only been a few days, and my larger one didn't eat for close to a week after I got her, so I shall give the little one a few more days, and will try a pinky-piece or two when I feed the larger one this weekend or whenever she finally gets off her butt and sheds.
To close, I figure, however tricky it is to get one snake (head) to eat, TWO heads would be TWICE as tricky -- though if they shared a stomach, atleast if ONE head ate, then the other would get fed ;)

[zooplan]

garters give birth to living offspring and have no eggs.
This makes breeding easier.
to follow your description of thier activities I would say:
They are mating!
But it also seem that one is active and the other one don´t like it.
BTW: There can be homosexual mating as well.
The normal time for mating is spring but it can happen in all seasons.

[Lori P]

Ahhhh now you're thinking... definitely go for one stomach... and while you're at it, purple is my favorite color so I'd REALLY like a dark purple snake. Can anyone invent me one?? :-)

[GrapefruiTgirl]

Will dark purple cauliflower do for now? 'They' have that. :)

[adamanteus]

Did anybody already mention that first generation in-breeding shouldn't be a problem? In fact it probably occurs frequently in wild Garter Snake populations.

[GrapefruiTgirl]

@ Adamanteus -- basically, yes, it was mentioned above in a roundabout way, and noted that 'some degree' of inbreeding produced such things as colour-morphs.
It wasn't mentioned that it does happen in the wild, but then, I suppose if two snakes who are related and don't know it, it's bound to happen by accident.
On TV here recently, they did a thing on the news about a two headed snake for real. I still wonder what brought that occurrence on.

[Lori P]

Will dark purple cauliflower do for now? 'They' have that. :)

Only if I can gaze at it lovingly and not have to eat it!! :-)