Sirtalis or parietalis?

[Stefan-A]

Would you call this a sirtalis or a parietalis? Neither or both? Impossible to tell? I have found one picture of an identical T. sirtalis, that was identified as a T. s. sirtalis from Iowa. If I remember correctly Iowa is one of the states where intergradiations of T. s. sirtalis and T. s. parietalis occur.

The red markings are visible only on the front half of the snake's body and from my avatar you should be able to see what they look like after the snake feeds. Well, maybe not.

Can anybody shed some light on this?

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/ernie.jpg

[ssssnakeluvr]

That looks like a parietalis to me, not an intergrade. I have seen parietalis in a variety of colors from no red to brown with red spots along the side stripe and black between them. The black ventral scales are normal for more norhterly red siders....I have never seen easterns with black ventral scales.

[Stefan-A]

There's a distinct possibility that I misunderstood what you meant by black ventral scales, but they aren't entirely black, just the upper "edge".

[ssssnakeluvr]

ok....well, I cansee the edge is black...I have seen parietalis with complete black ventrals or partial black....haven't seen black ventrals on sirtalis tho....

[Stefan-A]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/extra/side1.jpg


Don't know how well it shows, but here's a closeup. The ventral scales are greyish, except for the outer edges.

[Cazador]

Nice close-up Stefan. I think I see a mite :eek:. Just kidding :) .

[ssssnakeluvr]

Nice pic....still say it's a parietalis.....

[Stefan-A]

Thanks for the answers and the compliments. Funny that nobody disagrees. ;)

Cazador, don't joke about things like that. :p