Other pets (pics and discussions)

[EasternGirl]

Lol...Beanie doesn't get along with the boy cats...yet they all sleep on my bed...all of the animals sleep on my bed...the snakes would probably sleep there too if I let them. There are nights when I just think I should give the bed to the animals and go sleep on the floor...

[RedSidedSPR]

Awesome cats.



Too cute...

Yeah they were fun. Our dog loved it.

[Mommy2many]

Here's a holiday special. Anybody hear about the corn snake that was found in the Christmas Tree in North Carolina? The family is keeping it and calling it "Tinsel". Here's a link: Family finds snake in Christmas tree (http://www.imperfectparent.com/topics/2011/12/06/family-finds-snake-in-christmas-tree/)

[ConcinusMan]

"Can we keep him?" how cute. I think mom got outvoted.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like a young Fox Snake.

[ConcinusMan]

Corn snakes look just like that, west of the Rockies.;) (see "reptiles of the northwest")

[d_virginiana]

Cute cats... My grandparents have a psychotic siamese (are there any other kinds?) that they rescued as a kitten. He loves to be petted, but when he's had enough, he'll grab your hand in his mouth; not biting, not moving, just threatening. And that's when you know he's had enough. If you persist, well... Let's just say my father nearly had to get stitches.

I constantly dread finding animals in my Christmas tree. Usually because they are feline. I think they believe that we've just decided to bring nature inside AND add shiny things to it solely for their benefit.
I would certainly not complain if I found a snake in my Christmas tree though... Or anywhere for that matter, I'm going into reptile-withdrawal at the moment.

[guidofatherof5]

Tank never ceases to amaze me. Tonight he was taking a warm bath when he decided to come out of his enclosure.
It was more of an up and out. He climbed to this rim of his enclosure and just sat there. The rim is only a little over an inch wide.
I'd say that's pretty good balance for a snapping turtle.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//751/medium/tank34.jpg

[EasternGirl]

I want to find a snake in my Christmas tree...I have a fake one this year...that is definitely a reason to go back to a real one! Cute story...

Steve...that is too cute...the pic of Tank. Very good balance!

[RedSidedSPR]

Here's a holiday special. Anybody hear about the corn snake that was found in the Christmas Tree in North Carolina? The family is keeping it and calling it "Tinsel". Here's a link: Family finds snake in Christmas tree (http://www.imperfectparent.com/topics/2011/12/06/family-finds-snake-in-christmas-tree/)

Best ornament ever.

[EasternGirl]

Again...I want to find a snake in my Christmas tree! So jealous.

[ConcinusMan]

Wouldn't be so great if the snake was venomous, and it found you first.:eek:

[EasternGirl]

Umm...I don't think I want to find that snake in my Christmas tree...

[ConcinusMan]

OK, finally I show you "Puffin". He's a long haired chihuahua. Funny story how he came to be with me. I lost my "Thumbilina" (9 yr old cream pomeranian) to a sudden unexpected death this year. The very same day she died, I saw a kid chasing puffin down the street and I ran to help. Turns out the dog didn't belong to the kid so I caught Puffin and brought him home. Within a few days, the RFID implant allowed me to track down his owner. He had been missing for more than 3 weeks. They came and got him.

About a month later they brought him back and asked if I could take him. They couldn't take care of him anymore and were being evicted to the streets. So I took him. He's awesome. Very sweet and highly protective of the entire family, including my 3 remaining pomeranians.

Here he's pictured with "Rufus" a black and tan pom. Forgot the red eye setting!

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3457/20111211172742851.jpg

Puffin again:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1908/2011121117310731.jpg

[EasternGirl]

They are both adorable! I'm sorry to hear about Thumbilina's unexpected passing. It is weird that you found Puffin the same day that she died. Very cool story. I love my chihuahua but he can def be one of Cesar Millan's chihuahua's from hell when he is being territorial and jealous.

[ConcinusMan]

Thumbilina slipped into a coma one morning and died 21 hours later. Her passing was much easier to deal with since Puffin came along and gives me so much joy. He'll never replace her, but still, he made it much easier to deal with. It was just "fate" that he came along that day.

Thumbilina: (December 2010)

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/8030/dsc00963medium.jpg

She was limp but barked non-stop though the coma. I can't help but wonder if she was on the "cusp" and was barking because she could see the dogs waiting for her on "the other side". I don't know about that, but I miss her a lot.

[infernalis]

My condolences Richard.. It's a difficult thing to have to cope with so close to the holidays.

Wait, how long ago?? Sorry if I mistimed the reply.

[EasternGirl]

She was a beautiful girl...rest in peace Thumbilina....here in my baby girl Kaela who passed away last January...she wasn't actually a baby, she was 12...but she will always be my baby...she had a lapsed esophagus...it was a pretty rough death. I miss her every day...http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv235/Marnie313/2010_0920newcamerapics0008.jpg It's still hard for me to look at pictures of her. I didn't do the red eye correction either...can't look at the pic very long.

[guidofatherof5]

Tank is always good for a few yawns when he is getting up.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/tank332.jpg

[gregmonsta]

That just made me yawn :o ... should have gone to bed earlier!

[EasternGirl]

Okay...if I didn't know what that was, I don't know if I would ever figure it out!

[kimbosaur]

Okay, I don't find very many non-garters to be very cute, but these hognose morphs are just ridiculous! Chubby purple pig snakes!

http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/nss-folder/cornratsnakepictures/Snow.jpg
Photo source: Hognose Snake Pictures (http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/cornratsnakepictures/view.nhtml?profile=cornratsnakepictures&UID=10098)

[tress29]

The top one looks like it has a duck bill! Maybe it's just the color, but I prefer darker colors, like my little red hog boy.

[ConcinusMan]

"these hognose morphs are just ridiculous"

Yeah, the price on them is ridiculous too.:rolleyes:

[EasternGirl]

Very cute!

[kimbosaur]

The darker ones are cute too! But the purple just makes it look like they're straight from Alice in Wonderland or something.

I did do a quick search on them after I found the picture and the only "snow" I found for sale was $6500!!! :eek::eek::eek: That would be like $845 in taxes! Bahahaha. I guess the price tag just adds to the whole mystical-fantasy quality to them.

[RedSidedSPR]

Thinking bout getting one to fill my babies cage when i upgrade their cage.... I'd get more garters but i can't keep getting big cages.

Gonna seperate them into three's (yes that means i'll need another lol what a shame). Anery and flame are going with my adult. The left over 10 gallon can't stay empty!:eek:


"these hognose morphs are just ridiculous"

Yeah, the price on them is ridiculous too.:rolleyes:

No kidding.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...I love snakes but if I had $6500 I would not be spending it on a pet...I'd be paying off my bills or something.

[ConcinusMan]

I agree. I don't care how cool or rare it is, I'm not spending more than around $200 for any darn snake. Wouldn't make a dang bit of difference if my income was three times what it is now. Still wouldn't do it. Of course, when it comes to dogs like my poms, I'm willing to double that amount.:cool:

[infernalis]

Okay...I love snakes but if I had $6500 I would not be spending it on a pet...I'd be paying off my bills or something.

Taxes on my house for the next two years..

[EasternGirl]

Yeah...I did spend $500 on my Chihuahua...I guess I would spend that much on a snake if I had it to spend...I mean if I had it to spend...like I didn't need it for bills. When I spent the money on my dog, I had just lost my beloved lab and I had the money to spend. But unless I win the lottery or something I can't see spending $6500 to buy a pet. I can see spending it to save a pet's life...that is different to me...I would have given anything to save my lab's life if I had the money...but I just didn't have the money. I don't think much could have been done for her anyway.

[tress29]

Thinking bout getting one to fill my babies cage when i upgrade their cage.... The left over 10 gallon can't stay empty!:eek:

A ten will be plenty big. I had my male in a 2.5 gallon for the better part of a year (he is a little shrimp though!) I'm moving him out of the 5 gallone kritter keeper into a 15 qt tub cause I need somewhere to put my rescued African Dwarf Frogs. They are in a little desktop aquarium about the size of a boutique tissue box, yikes! Hallmark stores made a killing on these things and they aren't even big enough for a plastic frog to live in, grrrrr!

P.S. I paid $100 for my hognose two summers ago. I've seen normals and reds for the same or less nowadays.

[EasternGirl]

Hermes is in a 20 gallon and it's actually kind of funny right now because he is so small...but I had to move him into it because the lid on the 10 gallon wasn't secure enough for him.

Btw...you guys had me watching my snake poop really closely like some maniac tonight hoping that I could catch a fart sound! What the???

[infernalis]

Maybe the "ghost hunters" could lend you some of their fancy (fraudulent) equipment that picks up .. oh nevermind.

[EasternGirl]

Ha ha ha....now that would be funny...can you see me sitting there in the dark in one of those hats with the cameras on it with some sort of gadget in my hand that is supposed to detect "ghost signals"...listening for a snake fart? Lmao....

[infernalis]

The ghost of gass passed...

[EasternGirl]

tee hee...

[infernalis]

Back on topic now please, we have strayed too far off.

[EasternGirl]

What's the topic? Oh..yes...other pets...well...my chihuahua woke me up at 6am because he felt the need to come into my bed and sit on top of my cat's head...my cats were already taking over my entire bed. I am giving up...I should just give the animals the darn bed and move out.

[snakehill]

Okay...I love snakes but if I had $6500 I would not be spending it on a pet...I'd be paying off my bills or something. There is a two-headed Cornsnake (I think) on one of the forums that is for sale for $12,500! Would anyone spend that? :p

[EasternGirl]

Okay...If I was going to spend $12,500 on a snake...that snake better talk...do some tricks...and some kind of comedy routine...maybe even have some hidden talent counting cards...because we would be going on the road and that snake would be making me some money!

[Stefan-A]

There is a two-headed Cornsnake (I think) on one of the forums that is for sale for $12,500! Would anyone spend that? :p
If I were rich enough, I'd buy and euthanize them. I say "them", because two brains = two individuals.

[EasternGirl]

I hear you on that Stefan.

[ConcinusMan]

Okay...If I was going to spend $12,500 on a snake...

I would spend it on equipment and multiple garter snake occupants for a dedicated snake room. Screw spending it on one dang snake. I'd built a fantasy snake room and fill it with garters!:D

[EasternGirl]

That sounds good...but that would only be if I had it extra...I mean, if I suddenly won $12,500 tomorrow...I'd have to pay bills with it or something...but if I had money...I would make one of those snake rooms like the dutch guy.

[ConcinusMan]

That sounds good...but that would only be if I had it extra...I mean, if I suddenly won $12,500 tomorrow...I'd have to pay bills with it or something

Of course. This is all said assuming no debt, plenty in savings for those unexpected expenses, a newer, reliable car, and still having $12,500 expendable cash.

[Light of Dae]

:D I got a new pup last night! She is so cute! She is 11weeks old, half Boxer and a mix of Sheppard x Collie x Rottie.
Anyone wanna help name her?
356535663567

lol I had forgotten hoe sharp puppy teeth n claws could be!

[EasternGirl]

Omg...she is too adorable! I know...puppies have seriously sharp puppy teeth and all they want to do is chew on you....got a reminder of that with my chihuahua puppy...he is 10 mos now and finally starting to lay off a bit. I'm terrible with names though...

[snakehill]

Oh my goodness! What a cutie!!!! :D

[Light of Dae]

356835693570
Was considering naming her Toes... but not sure yet...
Her and Ms. Piggy are getting along great after a few "HOLY CRAP WHO ARE YOU????" moments. *Note Pig stealing a dog treat lol Friends with benefits at its finest!

[EasternGirl]

Funny thing...my dog is under my bed barking at nothing right now. He thinks he sees "other dogs" in the house sometimes and runs around looking for them and barking...and apparently right now, the "other dogs" are under my bed.

[PINJOHN]

A likely story .....get that man out of the house ;) whats his name Jack Russel :D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

There is a two-headed Cornsnake (I think) on one of the forums that is for sale for $12,500! Would anyone spend that? :p

Holy CRAP. That's ridiculous. We just built an entire new snakeroom... framed it, drywalled it, insulated it, installed electric, painted it, floored it, bought a heater, and moved everything in. For $600!!!! Yes it does help that my dad does drywall for a living and my husband's an electrician... but just to put that into perspective.... I can only imagine the facility that I could build for my herps with 12,500!!! in the next year or two when we get a house I will easily be dropping thousands on a BIG facility. This snakeroom is temporary... we moved the snakes so we could use the room they were in for a nursery. And even with painting the nursery and buying stuff for the coming baby cost has remained under $1000..... this is why I can't see some people paying the money they do for the latest and greatest morph snakes or especially two snakes with one body! Will I someday fork out a grand or so for a pair of indigos? you betcha. And then a few hundred on their caging. But I'll be damned if I'm going to ever spend $5,000-10,000 on the latest jungle woma butter spider peanut butter and jelly WHATEVER ball python or boa. And then what kills me is that there are people that will take this snake they just dropped their life savings on and put it in.... a small plastic shoebox. with.... a water bowl. And newspaper. In a rack system that is turned sideways in the corner of their living room or bedroom. Now I don't have a problem with rack systems when the animal's needs are met as far as temps and food and all that jazz... but I feel it's a bit backwards to drop thousands on one snake and then give their snakes the bare minimum of care instead of spending that $$$$ on better equipment, better caging and maybe some stimuli (multiple hides, pieces of wood... fake plants) for their herps!

[kibakiba]

I'm sure people see it as more of an investment, not something like a pet. If they have that morph, and another morph... They can (maybe) create better morphs and make even more money, maybe even making back the loss they had with that snake.

That said, I see morphed snakes as just something beautiful (in some cases, at least) to look at, and things like that for me have to be 100 or less.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I'm sure people see it as more of an investment, not something like a pet. If they have that morph, and another morph... They can (maybe) create better morphs and make even more money, maybe even making back the loss they had with that snake.

That said, I see morphed snakes as just something beautiful (in some cases, at least) to look at, and things like that for me have to be 100 or less.

Ok I am bored and i have to keep my feet up to reduce the swelling per the doctor so...

You are right, it is an investment... but.... that's the thing. People get so caught up in the dollar signs they see that they seem to forget they are working with living, breathing creatures. if you are going to use a snake as an investment why not treat the thing like royalty?! Besides... there are so many investments we could make that would not involve a living thing.... but like I said. I don't take issue with people as long as their snakes are cared for entirely on at least, a basic level. if you want to buy investment snakes, because you truly LOVE keeping snakes and you'd like to make money doing it, and you are not cutting corners at the expense of the snakes, then that is AWESOME. But i do take issue with the people who come into our hobby with that "I am going to breed snakes and get rich quick!" attitude and with that in mind, will attempt, on purpose, to keep cost at a bare minimum to maximise their profits. It's easy to spot those who came into this hobby with a passion, and to sort them from the ones that made the choice to enter after seeing the high dollar values some animals fetch. unfortunately even some of those that started out with a true passion for herps lose their way eventually. In this little community, we do not see it going on for the most part, as we are simply a group of people that loves garter snakes and many here have just that, some garter snakes, similar species, and nothing else! For those of us that are much more involved in all aspects of the reptile hobby, it's a bit more obvious. I am sure though that I am not the only one here that tires of having to skip half of every reptile show I visit because half the tables, sometimes more than half, are ALL ball pythons. Don't get me wrong, BP's are nice snakes, they are the perfect size, easy to handle and maintain... heck, I even once had about 10 of them myself! But I quickly realized, they are not for me and neither are the majority of people associated with them..... and they come in every shade of... er.... brown. and yellow and... white there is! :P I mean heck, the more morphs you stuff into one, the less pattern it has and the whiter it gets. What is not to love? LOL. But on a serious note I don't blame the snakes, but it's pretty obvious that money is the deciding factor of wayyyy too many people and it interferes with those of us with a serious interest in something other than one or two types of snakes! Not to mention the "dumbing down" factor even I, in my short time, have witnessed. When I first started going to Hamburg at 14 there was a lot more variety, and people who had their special niche and could tell you ALL about the snakes they are working with. One of my favorite tables was a guy who did all asian rats. Now it's a struggle to find a single healthy asian rat that's not a flipped animal..... or a vendor that actually knows a good deal about the animals they keep even if it IS something other than BP's. And having vended last show, I had a king rat snake and a pair of mexican night snakes at my table. Only a handful of people were able to ID those animals the entire show. But what baffled me more was how many people "IDed" my night snakes as "jungle corns". And quite a few people seemed to think my king rat was a bull snake. LOL!!!! And of course there was the usual complaining about the prices on the garter snakes at my table because they are "just garter snakes". Apparently when it's "just" a male elegans terrestris or "just" a female sauritus nitae $50 is far too much to ask! They sold anyways because luckily there are still some competent herpers wandering the crowds. But they are getting harder to find. And I am frustrated.... can you tell?!?! :confused:

I'll admit.... I do make it harder for myself. I mean.... I take interest in the oddest of creatures. Like the masticophis (coachwhips) genus. Do you know how HARD it is to find any sort of masticophis at a show? Or people that are even willing to entertain the idea of them as pets?! I have 7 masticophis, including a pair of the MAJESTIC Sonoran Whipsnake (google it!) and no one even believes me when I tell them they CAN be kept and they can even be handled. They are like keeping a cross of a giant garter snake and a bird. They take a good deal of patience to win over but I think most garter people would enjoy one if they were willing to give them a try! Maybe some day when I am feeling brave enough to breed mine and tackle the task of rearing tiny spawns of satan... you all can have some!!!

[kibakiba]

You have a tiny spawn of satan in your belly right now, how hard could it be to raise 20 more, smaller spawns of satan? :D

(I am kidding in case you cant tell ;))

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

You have a tiny spawn of satan in your belly right now, how hard could it be to raise 20 more, smaller spawns of satan? :D

(I am kidding in case you cant tell ;))

hahahaha! Sometimes I swear she kicks me in the ribs on purpose!!! ouch! it hurts. not to mention her head feels like a mortar and pestle on my bladder at times and that hurts even more :P

I'm totally ready to be done with the pregnant thing.

20 additional spawns of satan would probably be a baaaad idea at the moment. Coachwhips can be some of the most difficult baby snakes to start because they often come out wanting to eat lizards. And getting lizards as feeders is a drag.... at least for me it is since I live in PA. So there would be the task of obtaining plenty of lizards to start the stubborn babies with.... and then switching those onto mice before I can sell them! All of my adult coachwhips are LTC and have eaten f/t mice from the start.... so I know they at least consider rodents to be food. It took months for my westerns to trust me enough but now they will even eat them out of my hands. My easterns and my sonoran whips will still only eat mice that I "hide" in their hideys and they magically disappear overnight. I am still earning their trust. My pair of red westerns I have cracked pretty good. The male even comes to me and "begs"!

[EasternGirl]

Sorry to change the subject but...I just got back from the vet...my dog, Presley, has to stay overnight...he got one of my son's sleeping pills and ate it earlier tonight. So they have to monitor him overnight...he was showing some signs of decreased heart rate but they are giving him IV fluids and they said his prognosis is good. And speaking of money....$800 for this emergency vet visit....luckily I have it on credit and I have pet insurance to reimburse me. Long night...

[snakehill]

That sucks! Hope he is okay!! I worry about my animals getting into my Prozac :p

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hope your doggie is okay! It's always scary when they accidentally eat things....

My cheek is currently bleeding... I just took a full on chomp to the face from my female sonoran whip snake!!! It was so cool... she looked me dead in the face and used some incredibly good eyesight to nail me from 4 feet away! Full body launch.... I love a smart snake.

[snakehill]

Give me a dumb one anyday!! :p Not to change the subject but I just purchased a baby Anery (ghost?) Corn. I love my Garters but I've had this snake for less than a week and it has eaten twice already!! So much easier to feed!!! (and kinda cute too!)

[EasternGirl]

I wanted to get a corn snake...maybe at some point in the future. Congrats on your new snake. My dog is home from the hospital and he is doing well!

[snakehill]

Dogs are my FAVORITE animal! I have five at this time! Would have more if I could! I'm only supposed to have two!

[EasternGirl]

Hey...you got the caps lock off! I think dogs are probably my favorite animal too. Dogs and snakes and cats. Unfortunately, I can't get anymore cats after my cats are gone because I realized after getting them that I am severely allergic to cats...but I kept them and dealt with the allergies. I won't get anymore after mine pass on though. I will just have dogs and snakes.

[snakehill]

We have a Rescue and people just drop cats off overnight! We never know what we'll find in the morning!!! :p

[guidofatherof5]

We have a Rescue and people just drop cats off overnight! We never know what we'll find in the morning!!! :p

Same thing happens here during the warm months. Just don't take in cats. Only snakes.

[snakehill]

I'd prefer snakes! :p

[EasternGirl]

Oh my...if I could afford to and if I had the room I would take in every animal in town in need of a home...and then I would probably be in over my head!

[Light of Dae]

My cheek is currently bleeding... I just took a full on chomp to the face from my female sonoran whip snake!!! It was so cool... she looked me dead in the face and used some incredibly good eyesight to nail me from 4 feet away! Full body launch.... I love a smart snake.

AAAAH HAHAHAHA lol I love the nonchalant way you 'sound' here... currently bleeding... It was so cool... lol that's awesome.

[RedSidedSPR]

Dogs are awesome. Snakes and dogs are my favorite too.

[RedSidedSPR]

So much easier to feed!!

Yeah, but it's once a week and rather dull... :rolleyes:

in comparison that is.

[snakehill]

Well it's still a baby so it's twice a week!!! :p

[RedSidedSPR]

Instead of an exciting, multiple food-item, once a day.:D

I know, i like watching them constrict. They're OK.;)

[snakehill]

Mine doesn't constrict! Just sucks it down and is starting to look for another one! I've had this snake for 10 days and it has eaten 3 times already!!! I'm either going to go up a size on the pinkies or start giving it 2 at a time!!!

[RedSidedSPR]

Is it OK to give two at a time?

[snakehill]

One doesn't seem to make enough of a bulge! ;) Oh, yes it is okay IMO

[RedSidedSPR]

I thought I read somewhere you shouldn't give corn snake and snakes like that two mice at once.

But I don't know nothin' 'bout corns.

[Charis]

Yeah, you can do two at once. It's not really recommended as an every time thing, not 100% sure why. Partly due to the fact that an older, bigger mouse generally has more nutrition than a younger mouse. Beyond a certain point, I'd think that wouldn't be true. But one appropriately sized prey item is the recommended way to feed. However, it is fine to double up if there is too big of a size gap between the next sized mice you can find or you need to finish off a supply that has gotten too small. It's generally recommended that you feed hatchling corns only every five to seven days. More often than that is considered power feeding and while it will make the corn grow really fast, there is some proof that it also shortens their lifespans.

[RedSidedSPR]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[snakehill]

I've been feeding him every 3-4 days because he alway's seems to be hungry! He also seems kind of thin but I'm probably just comparing him to the garters! ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

Baby corn snakes always look skinny when i see them. Don't know.

[Charis]

With mine, I fed every 5 days until they were on to bigger fuzzies or hopper sized mice, then went to a 7 day feeding schedule. That has worked well so far. My three have been on double adult mice for about the last 8 months, they outgrew that size quickly. Just have about another 3 feedings worth left of that size and then they will go to extra large adults I just bought. I know most people go to a 14 to 21 day schedule with their adults but mine seem to maintain the best weight on the 7 day schedule. It seems to vary quite a bit between individual adults. I had corns before I got garters, no longer have any, and I know the feeding schedule for the garters seemed quite excessive when I was first reading up on them! :)

[snakehill]

I had adults corns (this is my first baby) and I fed them every 7 days too!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

baby corns it is fine to give them two or even three pinks in a sitting... I always do to any of my young colubrids. Those little pinkies are small, and remember if a baby corn found himself a nest of mice or baby birds/eggs in the wild he would certainly not just help himself to one and leave the rest!! Especially when they start putting on size, but the next size up is still too large and makes them uncomfortable, it's easier to give them two or three smaller ones. I noticed if you try to push a bigger feeder on them too soon it is more likely to lead to a regurge than a few smaller ones. As a general rule of thumb adults you just feed them one feeder as thick as the fattest part of the snake.... females you can keep at once per week, if they start to get fat you can reduce the size mouse a little.... males will sometimes still grow fat off this regimen so every 10-14 days for them and making sure they have space to move about seems to keep them from getting "rolls". As you can tell... I don't like fat snakes! A fat snake is short lived and will make for a lazy breeder!

[RedSidedSPR]

Thanks Shannon.

[Charis]

Yeah, I'm a bit paranoid about my snakes getting fat. It's so hard to get off once the extra weight is there! But at least so far, the adults are maintaining good body shape on the 7 days, I've moved them out to 10 or 14 days a few times but then their spines get just a bit too visible. The ones that I'm more worried about are the Rosys and the Hog, I'm pretty good at judging a good amount of weight and mucle tone on the thinner bodied snakes but trying to strike the right balance with the naturally stockier snakes is harder! I just got a good picture of my female corn, Stormy. I'll have to post it sometime, unfortunately I can't post pics to forums on this device.

Edit. Got this one to work, yay!

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/The%20Corn%20Snakes/a59f1d00.jpg

[snakehill]

Thanks Shannon! I'll try 2 next time I feed (on thursday) :)

[Charis]

Here are two more cute pictures.

This one is Katara's (fiancé's kitten) reaction to her first introduction to my Chihuahua. Luckily they are getting along better now.

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/d452070b.jpg

Then one of Bastian "killing" his dinner. He's the only snake I have that consistently constricts his meals.

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/My%20Rosy%20Boa/c80c0a04.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

Awesome animals and pictures.:)

[EasternGirl]

Love the cat pic! My chihuahua tortures my poor cats...

[guidofatherof5]

Love the cat pic! My chihuahua tortures my poor cats...

Good dog, good dog. :D

[RedSidedSPR]

Good dog, good dog. :D

Dog? chihuahua's aren't dogs...:confused:

Lol

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Then one of Bastian "killing" his dinner. He's the only snake I have that consistently constricts his meals.

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/My%20Rosy%20Boa/c80c0a04.jpg

Dang! He is determined. I always love when my snakes insist on re-killing their f/t prey. The best snakes are the ones that kill them so hard they die to death!

[Charis]

Since my iPad is being nice to me today and letting post pictures to forums, thought I'd share the 3 pickups from the Wasatch Reptile Expo. My fiancé got his first ever snake there, ended up coming home with 2. Had gone with the intention of getting a male Hypo Tangerine Honduran. Found a gorgeous one there and then found an albino Checkered garter that had to come home too. Had wanted to get one of Don's Redsided garters but took too long deciding and they had sold just before we got back to his table. I wasn't going to get anything except maybe a Coxi if I'd seen any there, but an adult normal male Western Hognose caught my eye and was still there late Sunday. The vendor gave me a great deal on him, since he knew I'd been eyeing him for two days and I couldn't pass him up.

This is Viserion, the garter. Doesn't really belong in this section but oh well!

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/Wasatch%20Reptile%20Expo%202011/temp1.jpg

Then Atticus my Hognose.

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/Wasatch%20Reptile%20Expo%202011/ade2bf4e.jpg

And Smaug the male Hondo.

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/Wasatch%20Reptile%20Expo%202011/7edb6850.jpg

These were all taken in the car outside of the Expo. I have some better ones but they aren't uploaded yet.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice looking snakes. Congrats.

[EasternGirl]

Viserion looks like my Hermes. Nice snakes!

As far as Chihuahuas not being dogs...I have a theory that Chihuahuas are actually a weird hybrid between a dog and a cat. My Chihuahua does a lot of "cat things"...too many not to be part cat.

[snakehill]

Chihuahuas are one of the toughest dogs on the planet! if you've ever had on you would know this!!! ;) They also have the largest brain for their size!!

[kibakiba]

Yeah, their heads are bigger than their body... I can't really see why people like them so much. But, I don't like dogs or cats. I like horses, snakes and dragons!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Chihuahuas have little man syndrome. That pretty much explains everything!

[kibakiba]

A chihuahua bit my friend's ex's nose and made him get stitches... It was kind of funny, but not.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

i'll post some random photos of stuff. I'm bored and feeling rather sluggish today! Had a hard time getting out of bed. Just waiting on those contractions to start....... grrrrrr!

Here is the new snake room - in this photo the caging is in place but it's not all set up yet

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll86/aSnakeLovinBabe/d5da453c.jpg

my chondro having herself a delicious nom

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll86/aSnakeLovinBabe/eabd9bea.jpg

Rorschach- a male coastal jag from Luke Snell, so far the most expensive snake I've ever purchased!
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll86/aSnakeLovinBabe/1ea81bbc.jpg

One of my 3 adult male E. Carinata.... these snakes are beasts... take all of the intelligence, eyesight and energy of a garter and put it into a 7-8 foot spring loaded snake that has had a bad day and the king Rat Snake is what you get!
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll86/aSnakeLovinBabe/e7372df2.jpg

A female tiger coastal carpet python
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll86/aSnakeLovinBabe/32d8e07d.jpg

female masticophis bilineatus (sonoran whipsnake) aka perpetually ticked off rope!
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll86/aSnakeLovinBabe/d66f7841.jpg

[RedSidedSPR]

love the whipsnake!! You got some of the awesomest stuff Shannon.:D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

love the whipsnake!! You got some of the awesomest stuff Shannon.:D

hehehe, that's the snake that chomped right into my face the other day! Did a full flying leap. They are SWEET snakes... but they are not for everyone.

[RedSidedSPR]

yeah from what I've heard they're pretty crazy. Still want one.:D

[ConcinusMan]

I wouldn't even attempt to try and keep one. They're just too wild. The one and only time I managed to catch one (they're ridiculously fast) he put up a vicious fight and also would not quit trying to escape. Finally let it go. It had rubbed all the scales of it's nose trying to get out. Just too nervous and wild for captivity. Not happy at all. Can't bring myself to keep a snake that is obviously not a happy camper in captivity. Most racers I've tried to keep were like that too, but whipsnakes are even worse. To make matters worse, the wild ones pretty much refuse to eat anything but lizards and small snakes, when they're not bouncing off the glass and rubbing their noses raw, that is. They're like trying to keep a wild caught wolverine as a house pet.:rolleyes:

[RedSidedSPR]

Wow. I don't want one anymore.:D

[ConcinusMan]

Like she said, not for everyone. I won't even keep a garter snake that refuses to settle down. It's too stressful. Both for the snake, and myself.

[RedSidedSPR]

Worse than I thought. Don't want anything like that either. Not like your described it.:rolleyes:

Racers on the other hand......

[ConcinusMan]

I've only kept racers short term, pretty much for the same reason. While some do OK, they are still quite stressed and nervous and will always take any opportunity to viciously bite your face off. I hear of people not having these problems but I've never had one that adapted well enough for me to want to keep them long term.

[RedSidedSPR]

Only person I've known with a Racer is Wayne, and his is pretty good about that stuff until you touch him.. I've just always loved racers they're so frikken cool. Can't think of many snakes I want, that can be kept similar to a garter, that isn't a garter. Other then natrix.

[kibakiba]

Apparently my pacific chorus frogs think they're bat frogs... They're all hanging upside down on the top of their tank! Silly little frogs.

[ConcinusMan]

Mine did that a lot. You go through the trouble of providing plants and other natural cover, and the little buttheads prefer to stick themselves upside down on an artificial surface, rather than hide in the plants.

[kibakiba]

Yeah, I had to take out some of the stuff for them, the crickets were getting stuck in it and dying. Twas gross.

[Charis]

My fiancé loves the look of the Asian Vine snakes but think the husbandry is too complicated to get one. However Rough Green snakes look somewhat similar and seem to have less complicated husbandry. Anyone have experience with them? Comments?

[RedSidedSPR]

I've looked into it many times. I've seen a few in my own yard, and always think it would be an awesome snake too keep. From what I've read it would probably be more complicated then a Vine snake. I've seen a few thrive in captivity, and know it can be done, but you gotta talk to someone who knows how, rather then relying on ANY of the care sheets you can manage to find.

Personally, I'd go with a vine snake first, but a green snake is not out of the question.

EDIT: they also have a very short life span, if that matters to you. I'm talking 3 years on average.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I wouldn't even attempt to try and keep one. They're just too wild. The one and only time I managed to catch one (they're ridiculously fast) he put up a vicious fight and also would not quit trying to escape. Finally let it go. It had rubbed all the scales of it's nose trying to get out. Just too nervous and wild for captivity. Not happy at all. Can't bring myself to keep a snake that is obviously not a happy camper in captivity. Most racers I've tried to keep were like that too, but whipsnakes are even worse. To make matters worse, the wild ones pretty much refuse to eat anything but lizards and small snakes, when they're not bouncing off the glass and rubbing their noses raw, that is. They're like trying to keep a wild caught wolverine as a house pet.:rolleyes:

Sorry Richard but these are common misconceptions about these two genus of snakes that people like me who keep them successfully constantly are rolling our eyes at. They come from inexperience and a lack of patience and they come from people who tried and failed at keeping them properly... I could miserably fail at corn snake husbandry and produce the same results and then deem corn snakes to be "too wild". If your masticophis or coluber is nose rubbing and pacing it is NOT HAPPY with the environment you have provided. This goes for ANY snake. Even a corn snake will nose rub if it's not happy... it's simply that some snakes are MUCH easier to please than others... and those of us who are up to the challenge find it VERY rewarding to be successful at working with the harder to please species. NONE of mine pace. NONE of mine nose rub. NONE of mine bounce off the glass!!! And they all eat f/t rodents quite readily and have from the start. They are opportunistic feeders as adults. None of them are captive bred either. They should not be nervous constantly... they should be confident and inquisitive. Which mine are. it's not hard to achieve... unless you've got zero patience and aren't flexible. give them their space, give them plenty of places to retreat and things to climb on and investigate... and leave them be. Allow them to observe you going about your business and don't harass them. They are the smartest of snakes and quickly learn you are not a threat. That particular female is extremely confident and that's why she decided to bite me square in the face! It was my doing. I disturbed her and she was not in a forgiving mood. I have plenty of garter snakes that have a similar attitude, if I disturb them and they don't feel like being disturbed they will tell me where to go! And don't even get my started on my asian rats. little suckers will puff and hiss and throw a little fit. And there is nothing wrong with that. We can't expect snakes to be complacent all the time. Too many people want a dull complacent snake... that's why there are so many that only keep ball pythons!!! if masticophis are so impossible to keep then how do I keep 7 of them with relative ease and why do my 3 westerns come up to me and take food from my hands??? (I have had them the longest, the others will follow suit soon enough!) Honestly, they are really no different than an overgrown ribbon snake. Tell me, how often do we as garter keepers hear from outsiders how garter snakes are boring and dull and they "stink" because of the musk and that they make terrible pets? Same goes with water snakes! We hear these things from 2 kinds of people- the ones who have NEVER kept them before and only encountered pissed off wild ones, and the ones who failed to keep them properly and wondered why it backfired!!

[infernalis]

The abbreviated lifespan is because they are incredibly difficult to keep PROPERLY in captivity.

They have unusual dietary needs.

[ConcinusMan]

I kinda had the feeling that post would get that kind of response from you. I've just never dealt with a whip snake or racer that wasn't perpetually pissed off no matter what I did.


If your masticophis or coluber is nose rubbing and pacing it is NOT HAPPY with the environment you have provided.

Yes, I realize that. The environment they didn't like was captivity period. That is, anything that kept them confined. They seemed perfectly content outside in the wild.:rolleyes:

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

north american green snakes and asian vine snakes seem to have many things in common... they often spontaneously drop dead even after they are seemingly doing well, they have a specialized diet, and they are honestly rarely, if EVER available as CBB or CB (sometimes i do see north american green snakes but I only know of ONE person who's had litters of vine snakes and those were from WC gravid moms, he was largely unsucessful at rearing the babies) meaning you are buying WC animals and in the case of the vines snakes have been put through a taxing importation process that leaves them stressed and weakened. Vine snakes eat lizards though, plain and simple, so unless you are looking to feed a snake lizards all of the time, it's pretty much not an option. The one person i know who is successfully keeping vine snakes, the same guy who had some babies born, has them in a VERY large viv that is made up like a miniature rainforest and is constantly supplying them with anoles to eat. They need a VERY He even recently had a pair mating!! Which is a HUGE step forward... And of course, smooth and rough greens are insectivores.... but are definitely much easier to convince to eat than vine snakes are and they don't have the extremely special humidity and temperature requirements that the vine snake does because they are from a temperate region!

IDK where you are getting the idea that they have some crazy short life span.... unless you simply mean that people tend to kill them quickly, usually much quicker than 3 years! But I think you will find it takes a snake LONGER than 3 years to reach full maturity... so this claim is entirely not true. Their life span would EASILY reach double, triple, quadruple that if people could figure out how to stop failing at keeping them!

Also... I'm going to move this thread into other pets as soon as i am off my phone.

[Charis]

Thanks for the replies! Does anyone know, are young dubia roaches acceptable food for green snakes?
Sorry for starting it in the wrong section, I wasn't sure where it should go. But I figured garter people might have more experience with them, since they seem to be more alike in temperament than, say, corn snakes?

[RedSidedSPR]

north american green snakes and asian vine snakes seem to have many things in common... they often spontaneously drop dead even after they are seemingly doing well, they have a specialized diet, and they are honestly rarely, if EVER available as CBB or CB (sometimes i do see north american green snakes but I only know of ONE person who's had litters of vine snakes and those were from WC gravid moms, he was largely unsucessful at rearing the babies) meaning you are buying WC animals and in the case of the vines snakes have been put through a taxing importation process that leaves them stressed and weakened. Vine snakes eat lizards though, plain and simple, so unless you are looking to feed a snake lizards all of the time, it's pretty much not an option. The one person i know who is successfully keeping vine snakes, the same guy who had some babies born, has them in a VERY large viv that is made up like a miniature rainforest and is constantly supplying them with anoles to eat. They need a VERY He even recently had a pair mating!! Which is a HUGE step forward... And of course, smooth and rough greens are insectivores.... but are definitely much easier to convince to eat than vine snakes are and they don't have the extremely special humidity and temperature requirements that the vine snake does because they are from a temperate region!

IDK where you are getting the idea that they have some crazy short life span.... unless you simply mean that people tend to kill them quickly, usually much quicker than 3 years! But I think you will find it takes a snake LONGER than 3 years to reach full maturity... so this claim is entirely not true. Their life span would EASILY reach double, triple, quadruple that if people could figure out how to stop failing at keeping them!

Also... I'm going to move this thread into other pets as soon as i am off my phone.

Well, I'm going by wild and captive average life span. If a snake lives 3 years average in the wild in it's natural environment......



But yes, they are very hard to keep, as i said.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I can guarantee you they are living a bit longer than that! Aside from the ones that end up as someone else's dinner! 3 years is hardly enough time to grow up, let alone pass your genes on to a future generation. Ultimately, if you had to choose between the two, a this point in our hobby it's choosing the lesser of two evils... I say that because even the most seasoned herpers have been largely unsuccessful at keeping either species so far, but more-so the vine snake. Their care requirements are so different though that I'd say they are not even comparable.... If you are looking for the easier of the two to attempt, it would undoubtedly have to be the rough green snake, because it's setup would actually be quite similar to a garter snake's and it's diet is a *tad* easier to work with. it also hasn't been put through the extremely rough importation process, but then again a lot of times when you see rough greens for sale it's through those same wholesalers that peddle tons of cheap snakes and offer them little to no proper care. The asian vine snake is a highly, highly specialized snake and has very specific requirements especially pertaining to humidity... it is much less forgiving of even minor husbandry mistakes.... it's possibly one of the most intimidating species you could ever choose to work with! I think the major factor in getting off on the right foot with these animals is first to find healthy specimens from a TRUSTWORTHY supplier... or in the case of the green snakes, collect them yourself. DTS herps often has CB baby green snakes available every year (captive born, NOT captive bred, meaning the mom simply laid eggs after being caught) but I would not touch anything from them with a 10 foot pole. There is a reason they have acquired the nickname "Death to Snakes" amongst seasoned keepers. Hopefully years down the road, someone will have mastered the art of keeping either of these species and captive bred will be available. I would gladly pay extra hundreds of dollars for a US CBB pair of vine snakes.

[EasternGirl]

I had a black racer in my yard a few years ago that was going after my lab retriever...it was a mean one and it wasn't backing down. I went out to try to get it away from my dog and it came after me...I just got my dog and got the heck out of there. Of course if my chihuahua had been around then...he certainly wouldn't have backed down. This is why we named him Elvis Presley...because he thinks he is the king. (see how I combined posts there? :cool:).

[snakehill]

Shannon! Your Carpet is GORGEOUS!!! Makes me want another one!!!:)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Shannon! Your Carpet is GORGEOUS!!! Makes me want another one!!!:)

careful!!! They are like garters and potato chips. You can't just have one!!! I love my carpets. They're always so curious about what I'm doing and I love the way they hang out in plain sight all day!

[snakehill]

Hey Shannon I hate to be a pest about corns but I would like your opinion on keeping them together! We all know that it is a hot topic on other forums! I kept 2 adult corns in a 40 gallon back when I had my reptile room and never had a problem! I did feed them seperately though! What do you think? Opinions from others also welcome! Thanks :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah i have racers in my yard each spring. They are mean! They were the first snake i caught.:eek: couldn't keep it from biting me at the time, Tore me up!


I can guarantee you they are living a bit longer than that! Aside from the ones that end up as someone else's dinner! 3 years is hardly enough time to grow up, let alone pass your genes on to a future generation. Ultimately, if you had to choose between the two, a this point in our hobby it's choosing the lesser of two evils... I say that because even the most seasoned herpers have been largely unsuccessful at keeping either species so far, but more-so the vine snake. Their care requirements are so different though that I'd say they are not even comparable.... If you are looking for the easier of the two to attempt, it would undoubtedly have to be the rough green snake, because it's setup would actually be quite similar to a garter snake's and it's diet is a *tad* easier to work with. it also hasn't been put through the extremely rough importation process, but then again a lot of times when you see rough greens for sale it's through those same wholesalers that peddle tons of cheap snakes and offer them little to no proper care. The asian vine snake is a highly, highly specialized snake and has very specific requirements especially pertaining to humidity... it is much less forgiving of even minor husbandry mistakes.... it's possibly one of the most intimidating species you could ever choose to work with! I think the major factor in getting off on the right foot with these animals is first to find healthy specimens from a TRUSTWORTHY supplier... or in the case of the green snakes, collect them yourself. DTS herps often has CB baby green snakes available every year (captive born, NOT captive bred, meaning the mom simply laid eggs after being caught) but I would not touch anything from them with a 10 foot pole. There is a reason they have acquired the nickname "Death to Snakes" amongst seasoned keepers. Hopefully years down the road, someone will have mastered the art of keeping either of these species and captive bred will be available. I would gladly pay extra hundreds of dollars for a US CBB pair of vine snakes.

That's good to know that they live longer then that.

And yeah, I've seen green snakes, racers, all the stuff I can never find at DTS but don't wanna buy it cuz I don't want to support them.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hey Shannon I hate to be a pest about corns but I would like your opinion on keeping them together! We all know that it is a hot topic on other forums! I kept 2 adult corns in a 40 gallon back when I had my reptile room and never had a problem! I did feed them seperately though! What do you think? Opinions from others also welcome! Thanks :)

personally when it comes to practically ALL snakes I am a one snake, one cage person. The ONLY snakes I cohab are those that genuinely seem to "enjoy" it (I am using that term loosely, for lack of a better one) and the only snakes I find that seem to do BETTER in small groups are garter snakes and similar natricine snakes. Especially little babies, if you take a shy one and put it with a group of bold, good eaters it often turns the shy baby around and give him some confidence. Even adult garters seem to "enjoy" the company of one another, maybe it is a safety in numbers mentality, who knows... but out in the field I almost always find piles of basking garter and water snakes and it's actually easier to spot multiple garter snakes together or in very close proximity to one another than it is to find them alone. I also find that my adult garters in captivity seem to benefit from the extra mental stimuli that comes from being in a small group... and have even had garter snakes kept alone stop thriving and go off feed when nothing else was changed.... but that's not to say garters cannot or should not be kept alone as the majority of them will thrive, but if being kept alone they should at LEAST be given plenty of mental and visual stimuli... and not just stuck in a plain dark box with a bowl of water and some bedding. Being kept like that seems to "zombify" them... they become inactive and much less engaged.... not to mention FAT!!! The same cannot be said about pretty much any other snake... they are solitary by nature, especially corns, being crepuscular (active during sunrise and twilight) and fossorial (spends a lot of time under the leaf litter and other debris).... and then there is the issue of two adult males will stress one another out, an adult pair will end up breeding whether you want them to or not and the male can over breed the female or breed her far too young, stunting her growth and even risking her life. Just out of habit I would not even keep females together, merely for the fact that they are indeed, very solitary snakes and definitely seem to get NOTHING out of being kept together. Most of them will still eat because, well, corns love to eat and aren't shy about it... but I have seen cohabbed corns go off feed due to stress of having another snake all up in their business. They don't like it and if you notice when you introduce two cornsnakes to one another they are leary about each other and a lot of twitching and tail wagging goes on. Same goes with ball pythons, any other kind of python, rat snake.... etc etc. Generally, I don't agree with the principle that just because they seem "fine" that it makes it OK... too many people use the fact that they are "fine" to try and justify keeping them together and skimping on supplies... not saying at all this is the case but if one doesn't have the space and $$$ to buy another cage the last thing they should worry about is adding another snake to the already existing cage! There is also the whole quarantine thing.... you can't possibly quarantine a new snake from your current one if you don't have separate cages.... and if one snake gets sick or regurges or has worms in it's poop.... not only do you not know which snake it's from but it's probably already too late for the other! Hope this helps :)

[EasternGirl]

I send the racers into my neighbors yard...because she's mean too...lol!

[snakehill]

Thanks Shannon! I guess I won't keep 2 together although they would be from the same place and have already been together.There are so many beautiful corn morphs out there! It's hard not to keep getting more! :p

[Light of Dae]

3579My big sour puss Lewie looking disapprovingly at my smaller mutt pup Shade lol
3580Found out my Axolotls are truly Tiger Salamanders larval form. Disappointing, but they are still neat. This one is Yang.
3581Here is my morphing Yin, Note her gills are now just nubs.
3582My Radix all dull n about to shed again :D
3583Shade n Piggy playing.

[EasternGirl]

All great pics! Love that new pup!!

[RedSidedSPR]

Thanks Shannon! I guess I won't keep 2 together although they would be from the same place and have already been together.There are so many beautiful corn morphs out there! It's hard not to keep getting more! :p

So many "fake", inbred morphs out there...

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

So many "fake", inbred morphs out there... I'm confused! How are they fake? Yes some are inbred but many breeders strive to outcross! I myself love NOTHING MORE than a classic corn, especially the Miamis and okeetee's but I don't have anything against those that like the color morphs if that's their cup of tea as long as they put the animals first that is what's important. If Its "hey lets see how many morphs I can stuff into this tiny rack" then I can see what you are saying.

[Stefan-A]

I'm confused! How are they fake?
If I absolutely had to define a "fake morph", it'd be one that doesn't in practice occur in the wild or when it does, it doesn't actually represent a population or a significant portion of a population.

To each his own, though.

[RedSidedSPR]

I'm confused! How are they fake? Yes some are inbred but many breeders strive to outcross! I myself love NOTHING MORE than a classic corn, especially the Miamis and okeetee's but I don't have anything against those that like the color morphs if that's their cup of tea as long as they put the animals first that is what's important. If Its "hey lets see how many morphs I can stuff into this tiny rack" then I can see what you are saying.

Not sure exactly.:p I just know a lot of corns and ball pythons are bred unhealthily for really funky morphs that just look fake. Maybe "fake" was a bad choice of words. But when I was walking through the reptile show earlier this year I almost pitied some of the snakes.


If I absolutely had to define a "fake morph", it'd be one that doesn't in practice occur in the wild or when it does, it doesn't actually represent a population or a significant portion of a population.

To each his own, though.

That's exactly what I meant.;)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Not sure exactly.:p I just know a lot of corns and ball pythons are bred unhealthily for really funky morphs that just look fake. Maybe "fake" was a bad choice of words. But when I was walking through the reptile show earlier this year I almost pitied some of the snakes.



That's exactly what I meant.;)

I get what you were trying to say now. As long as it doesn't compromise the snake's health... I don't have a problem with morphs. I like a lot of morphs! (not as much as wild types and selectively bred lines). What I generally have a problem with is the PEOPLE. The high school cliques that associate themselves with morphs and that "I'm gonna breed morphs and get rich quick" thing. A snake in captivity doesn't give two craps about what color he is.... so as long as he is healthy and well cared for, it doesn't matter, it's really just preference and what you are looking to get out of your hobby.

[RedSidedSPR]

That's how I feel too.

But i'm not a fan of most of those non-natural morphs so I guess I have no "but they are pretty...." feeling which makes me less open to the idea.:D

[snakehill]

I've been looking at a beautiful female stripe on kingsnake.com. I guess I like striped snakes! Garters, striped cali kings, striped corns etc! :p

[Bart]

I'm confused! How are they fake? Yes some are inbred but many breeders strive to outcross! I myself love NOTHING MORE than a classic corn, especially the Miamis and okeetee's but I don't have anything against those that like the color morphs if that's their cup of tea as long as they put the animals first that is what's important. If Its "hey lets see how many morphs I can stuff into this tiny rack" then I can see what you are saying.

I don't like unnatural morphs either. I agree that classic corns are great (I like common corn color though). My Nefri is an anery, but anerys do occur in nature, so it counts! :D

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I really want a tesserra corn. They are the best of both worlds!!!! All of the gorgeous colors of a normal corn snake but they are STRIPED like a garter snake. I too have an affinity for striped snakes.

[Stefan-A]

It's still just a corn snake.

[Bart]

"Just a corn snake"? I dare to disagree with you, good sir. I thougth that corns are just as boring as pythons, but they are not. Nefri is a curious, adorable and smart missy, just as my beloved Izy, bigger and little slower though. But in any respect, she's great. For example, she always pops out from her hide, when I'm nerby. I even found out, that the best way of getting her attention is by wiggling my own tongue. :) Apparently, she can't help herself and resist and always checks what is that. :)

[Stefan-A]

"Just a corn snake"? I dare to disagree with you, good sir. I thougth that corns are just as boring as pythons, but they are not. Nefri is a curious, adorable and smart missy, just as my beloved Izy, bigger and little slower though. But in any respect, she's great. For example, she always pops out from her hide, when I'm nerby. I even found out, that the best way of getting her attention is by wiggling my own tongue. :) Apparently, she can't help herself and resist and always checks what is that. :)
"Just a corn snake" as in "that paint job doesn't change it into something else".

[Bart]

Oh. :o

[EasternGirl]

So...to change the subject for a moment...after my chihuahua had to stay at the hospital overnight because of his little pill ingestion, he seems to have developed an anxiety disorder. Now he freaks out whenever we put him in his bed and when we have to leave him. He cried all night last night and kept waking everyone up. I went out today and bought him this anxiety dog jacket...it is supposed to help dogs with anxiety issues. It's just a coat that he wears...don't ask! We'll see if it works tonight when we are trying to get some sleep.

[kibakiba]

Maybe since he's tiny, he got addicted to it? If he's anything like me, I can get addicted to pills if I take just one. It's kind of in my genetic makeup, apparently. My real mom's drug counselor said that since my mom and dad did a lot of drugs before I was born, I have a lower tolerance to addictive substances, and a higher tolerance to most medications. Maybe he's going through a withdrawal because of the meds he did ingest?

[EasternGirl]

Well I hear you on that because I can take one pill and then go into withdrawal the next day...I am also very sensitive to medications and I also get addicted to things very easily (addiction runs in my family too)...but the pill he took is actually used often to treat drug withdrawal....it was clonodine...which my son takes for sleep...and it is a blood pressure medication, but they also use it for opiate withdrawal. I think that he got all freaked out because he has never been away from us and he is super attached to me anyway...and he is a chihuahua so he is high anxiety to begin with. So...I think now he is afraid that we are going to leave him again. If he keeps acting weird, I'm going to talk to the vet.

[PINJOHN]

Well I hear you on that because I can take one pill and then go into withdrawal the next day...I am also very sensitive to medications and I also get addicted to things very easily (addiction runs in my family too)...but the pill he took is actually used often to treat drug withdrawal....it was clonodine...which my son takes for sleep...and it is a blood pressure medication, but they also use it for opiate withdrawal. I think that he got all freaked out because he has never been away from us and he is super attached to me anyway...and he is a chihuahua so he is high anxiety to begin with. So...I think now he is afraid that we are going to leave him again. If he keeps acting weird, I'm going to talk to the vet.


Marnies dog the junkie
had a real close call with death
he gobbled some clonodine
and near took his last breath
despite his misadventure
you might find this hard to swallow
the poor dog's now on cannabis
with crystal meths to follow :eek:

[snakehill]

It's still just a corn snake. People say that about Garter snakes too!!!

[Stefan-A]

People say that about Garter snakes too!!!
The difference is in what they mean when they say it.

[snakehill]

Huh?:confused:

[RedSidedSPR]

I really want a tesserra corn. They are the best of both worlds!!!! All of the gorgeous colors of a normal corn snake but they are STRIPED like a garter snake. I too have an affinity for striped snakes.

Those are pretty cool

[snakehill]

They are on sale on kingsnake.com. 25%-50% off and they are still $500-$1100! :p

[infernalis]

It's still just a corn snake.

Agreed.............


They are on sale on kingsnake.com. 25%-50% off and they are still $500-$1100! :p

That's a nice bite out of my property taxes, or a new set of tires for my tuck.

[RedSidedSPR]

I missed that!

[EasternGirl]

Marnies dog the junkie
had a real close call with death
he gobbled some clonodine
and near took his last breath
despite his misadventure
you might find this hard to swallow
the poor dog's now on cannabis
with crystal meths to follow :eek: Rofl....

[infernalis]

http://www.chompersite.com/chomper.jpg

[snakehill]

All I know is that I've never met a corn (or garter) that I didn't like!!!:p

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

hey now, "just a corn snake to us" is the same as "just a garter snake" to many other people! We dont appreciate it when people look down upon our snakes... So why sink to their level? Corns are beautiful snakes. Boring? too easy? absolutely... but they make great pets especially for younger kids who are just learning the ropes. I'd be afraid to allow a small child to touch a garter snake seeing as they are so fragile and a bit on the small side... Nothing like a big tough old cornsnake to tolerate a kids first time handling a snake! Not only will they tolerate it but their body is forgiving of small doses of rougher handling. and how many of us here have worked with eastern milks and love them? Their care and behavior is practically identical... An equally boring species!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

They are on sale on kingsnake.com. 25%-50% off and they are still $500-$1100! :p Aaaaand that's why I will simply wait a few years until they are common... For that money I can have my eastern indigo snake! And I will!

[snakehill]

I've been thinking about Carpets and Dumerils alot lately!!! Need to get bigger enclosures first!! ;)

[Stefan-A]

hey now, "just a corn snake to us"
"It's just a corn snake" as in "being a tesserra corn (or any other morph) doesn't give it the power to puke rainbows, cure cancer or fly buggalos. It is not a frakkin' unicorn and it's no different from a normal corn snake, apart from the coloration."

Still anyone here who insists on understanding the sentence "It's still just a corn snake.", as meaning "Boo, corn snakes are crappy snakes"?

[snakehill]

Can you honestly say that corns are not beautiful snakes Stefan? :confused:

[Stefan-A]

Can you honestly say that corns are not beautiful snakes Stefan? :confused:
Depends on the corn snake. What does that have to do with anything we've discussed so far?

[snakehill]

I was just saying that it sounds like you don't like corn snakes! Sorry! :p

[Bart]

hey now, "just a corn snake to us" is the same as "just a garter snake" to many other people! We dont appreciate it when people look down upon our snakes... So why sink to their level? Corns are beautiful snakes. Boring? too easy? absolutely... but they make great pets especially for younger kids who are just learning the ropes. I'd be afraid to allow a small child to touch a garter snake seeing as they are so fragile and a bit on the small side... Nothing like a big tough old cornsnake to tolerate a kids first time handling a snake! Not only will they tolerate it but their body is forgiving of small doses of rougher handling. and how many of us here have worked with eastern milks and love them? Their care and behavior is practically identical... An equally boring species!

Wait, what? Corns aren't boring! As far as I can see, they are just as curious and (almost) smart snakes as garters! My african house snake, Amon, just wants to have a roof and full belly (and sometimes: just a roof), but Nefri acts much like bigger version of Izy, just not so jumpy. So I can't agree that they are boring.

And maybe they are easy to keep, but it doesn't make them boring or stupid snakes! I've had observing and keeping ants for 20 years for now - and after those years I can say without any doubts that the commonest species of ants have more strategies of survive and tolerance of different conditions - and that's why they are so common. That means that they are smarter than specialised species because they inhabit so much different habitats and thus had to develop many behaviors, that specialised and rare species lack. This applies to snakes too. The more common the snake is, the more he is intelligent and tolerant to different conditions. You know which species of vertebrates is the most abudant on Earth? Humans. Following this logic, we should consider humans as most boring and not interesting species in the world. Imagine aliens that visit Earth - they would investigate on gorillas for sure, ignoring the presence of boring humans. I hope I made my point of view clear. ;)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Hahaha, I am sorry but I DO find corns to be quite boring, not as much as ball pythons, but I prefer other species!!! But I like corns, they're cute and all.... And since I am a huge fan of orange and black a nice okeetee is hard to beat. Stefan, if tesserras can't puke rainbows I will eat my shirt. That's the whole reason I wanted one in the first place!

[Bart]

Well, it's because you saw too many of them. But objectively speaking, common species are way more interesting. Again: let's say, you're an alien. ;) You don't know anything about how common the species is. You only can observe the species' behaviour under different conditions. Common species most likely will adapt, while specialised one will probably die. Which one you'll call boring then? The dead one - or the one that survived the test? I'm pretty sure there's nothing interesting in a dead corpse, at least not for a person that isn't a coroner or paleontologist. ;)

[kibakiba]

I'd happily eat my shirt if someone paid me to do so... Enough to get another shirt and maybe a pair of jeans... :D
Also, I loke the different morphs, but I wouldn't actually want to own one.

[infernalis]

how many of us here have worked with eastern milks and love them? Their care and behavior is practically identical... An equally boring species!

I'm afraid I'm going to have to call you out on that one Shannon.

A couple years ago you posted a L.T. Triangulum picture where the snake was looking like it wanted to eat your face.

They have a certain "spunk" to them that quite frankly most corns lack.

[snakehill]

I like their lack of spunk! It's like when I ride a horse! A lot of people like a spirited mount! Give me an old plug anyday! :p

[kibakiba]

I prefer calm horses to crazy horses, because I have something in common with that horse. Calm, quiet and not crazy. Totally not crazy at all. I swear.

[Bart]

I like their lack of spunk! It's like when I ride a horse! A lot of people like a spirited mount! Give me an old plug anyday! :p

Well, when I touch Nefri, she is concerned, but doing nothing exept maybe fleeing. My milk snake always turns her head on my finger and it looks like she would happily bite me! :eek:

[Bart]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to call you out on that one Shannon.

A couple years ago you posted a L.T. Triangulum picture where the snake was looking like it wanted to eat your face.

They have a certain "spunk" to them that quite frankly most corns lack.

Wasn't sure what actually "spunk" means, so I've checked. Lol. :) "They have a certain "spunk" to them". ;) He, he, he. ;)

[ConcinusMan]

I think in this case, "spunk" means a bit of a feisty disposition/bad attitude, just to clarify. There are multiple meanings of the word.;)

Milks and Kings can be sweet or have a really bad attitude. Just depends on the individual.

[EasternGirl]

I would like to have a corn snake someday...I like them.

[ConcinusMan]

Please look into adopting if you do. Plenty of "homeless" corns out there.

[Bart]

I think in this case, "spunk" means a bit of a feisty disposition/bad attitude, just to clarify. There are multiple meanings of the word.;)

Milks and Kings can be sweet or have a really bad attitude. Just depends on the individual.

Yeah I know that - but still it's funny. ;)

[snakehill]

careful!!! They are like garters and potato chips. You can't just have one!!! I love my carpets. They're always so curious about what I'm doing and I love the way they hang out in plain sight all day! Hey Shannon are you breeding your beautiful carpets this year? ;)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to call you out on that one Shannon.

A couple years ago you posted a L.T. Triangulum picture where the snake was looking like it wanted to eat your face.

They have a certain "spunk" to them that quite frankly most corns lack.

ORLY? :P That difference in "spunk" you are noting is the fact that L T Triangulum is a kingsnake.... but a wild snake doesn't even begin to compare to it's counterpart that's spent it's entire life in captivity. Every wild one I've ever met was totally ready to bite me, or DID bite me. But corns are just the same! Didn't you ever have a wild corn snake try to eat your face?! They can get quite defensive.... Maybe you haven't met any wild corns though.... I've even had CBB corns do that but it's pretty rare, and the triangulum I've worked with in captivity are rather....complacent, as well. Either way, I lump them all in the same, whether it's a pantherophis, a lampropeltis, or even many of the US native elaphe.... they are all pretty much the same snake to me with a different paint job. Give them a snug hidey, aspen shavings and a bowl of water and they are happy. The easiest of snakes to maintain. The main difference in "spunk" as far as captivity is concerned is that kings are such gluttons that they will often attempt to eat you. Bandit STILL does it and he's going on 8 years old now. I routinely pry him off my hand about once every few months or so and then get to fish for any teeth he left behind.

The "spunk" I personally search for in snakes is present in my beloved thams, nerodia, e. carinata, coluber, masticophis and ONE DAY, hydronastes, boeleni & drymarchon. I'm gonna get into the drymarchon DEEP. The only reason I haven't so far is simply, I don't have enough large caging to contain the monstrous beasts when I'm already working with carinata and morelia. I'll have to wait until we have moved and then drop a few grand on a stack of huge vision or AP cages before I'm ready to advance into them.... give me some years.

[Light of Dae]

I like their lack of spunk! It's like when I ride a horse! A lot of people like a spirited mount! Give me an old plug anyday! :p

I am one who loves a spirited horse! My very first horse I bought was a GREAT challenge to break to ride. Mind you he had come from stupid, mean teenagers, So I didn't blame him for bucking n rearing n bolting n attacking me n throwing me for the first few months, I understood :) He became the best horse to ride through me... Man I miss that horse.

[Stefan-A]

My very first horse was cold smoked.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I am one who loves a spirited horse! My very first horse I bought was a GREAT challenge to break to ride. Mind you he had come from stupid, mean teenagers, So I didn't blame him for bucking n rearing n bolting n attacking me n throwing me for the first few months, I understood :) He became the best horse to ride through me... Man I miss that horse.

I like "mean" snakes. Well, what most people consider mean... I just consider confident.

[snakehill]

I am one who loves a spirited horse! My very first horse I bought was a GREAT challenge to break to ride. Mind you he had come from stupid, mean teenagers, So I didn't blame him for bucking n rearing n bolting n attacking me n throwing me for the first few months, I understood :) He became the best horse to ride through me... Man I miss that horse. I liked spirited horses when I was younger! Too old for that now!!:p The horse I have now is a little wild! Of course she wouldn't be if I rode her more! I miss all the horses that I used to have!! :(

[infernalis]

ORLY? :P That difference in "spunk" you are noting is the fact that L T Triangulum is a kingsnake.... but a wild snake doesn't even begin to compare to it's counterpart that's spent it's entire life in captivity. Every wild one I've ever met was totally ready to bite me, or DID bite me. But corns are just the same! Didn't you ever have a wild corn snake try to eat your face?! They can get quite defensive.... Maybe you haven't met any wild corns though.... I've even had CBB corns do that but it's pretty rare, and the triangulum I've worked with in captivity are rather....complacent, as well. Either way, I lump them all in the same, whether it's a pantherophis, a lampropeltis, or even many of the US native elaphe.... they are all pretty much the same snake to me with a different paint job. Give them a snug hidey, aspen shavings and a bowl of water and they are happy. The easiest of snakes to maintain. The main difference in "spunk" as far as captivity is concerned is that kings are such gluttons that they will often attempt to eat you. Bandit STILL does it and he's going on 8 years old now. I routinely pry him off my hand about once every few months or so and then get to fish for any teeth he left behind.

The "spunk" I personally search for in snakes is present in my beloved thams, nerodia, e. carinata, coluber, masticophis and ONE DAY, hydronastes, boeleni & drymarchon. I'm gonna get into the drymarchon DEEP. The only reason I haven't so far is simply, I don't have enough large caging to contain the monstrous beasts when I'm already working with carinata and morelia. I'll have to wait until we have moved and then drop a few grand on a stack of huge vision or AP cages before I'm ready to advance into them.... give me some years.


You got me there.. I have never seen / handled a wild corn.

Being that Corns are just another form of rat snake, I would imagine that the wild ones behave like rat snakes.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

You got me there.. I have never seen / handled a wild corn. Being that Corns are just another form of rat snake, I would imagine that the wild ones behave like rat snakes. Apparently they are NOT ratsnakes as I have made a similar assumption but then was yelled at by a corn lover. Lol! They are pretty similar... They rattle their tails, rear up and posture.... And if they think you don't see them they *slowly* try to creep away. The corns I have hatched have always had some serious attitude!

[infernalis]

Then yell back at them corn lovers... Tell them to look up "Red Rat Snake" ;)

[Stefan-A]

Taxonomy settles all disputes (except disputes over taxonomy). Dogs are wolves, humans are apes, birds are dinosaurs and corn snakes are rat snakes.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Taxonomy settles all disputes (except disputes over taxonomy). Dogs are wolves, humans are apes, birds are dinosaurs and corn snakes are rat snakes. Now I don't feel so bad about always lumping them into my ratsnake categories in all my photo albums! :)

[Stefan-A]

Now I don't feel so bad about always lumping them into my ratsnake categories in all my photo albums! :)
I'd file them all under "Non-garters".

[infernalis]

Taxonomy settles all disputes (except disputes over taxonomy). Dogs are wolves, humans are apes, birds are dinosaurs and corn snakes are rat snakes.

Some humans are more "ape like" than others :D

[EasternGirl]

Yes...in Delaware we have two different wild corn snakes that are actually rat snakes....I didn't know they were the same either but they are. We have a orange/reddish one...the red rat snake, or pantherophis guttatus guttatus and the black rat snake, pantherophis obsoletus.

[infernalis]

Oh Marnie....

All corn snakes are rat snakes, but not all rat snakes are corn snakes. ;)

pantherophis obsoletus is a black rat snake, but not a corn snake,

[EasternGirl]

Really...the info that I read said it was also a corn snake. Now I am all confused.

[infernalis]

Really...the info that I read said it was also a corn snake. Now I am all confused.

Between this forum for your Thamnophis, and ssnakess for your non Thamnophis, there should not be any need to read conflicting information by unknown authors elsewhere. ;)

[RedSidedSPR]

True dat.

[RedSidedSPR]

I'd file them all under "Non-garters".

The perfect solution.

[snakehill]

Just found my new baby anery corn! He was MIA for the past 24 hours! Actually one of my dogs and a cat found him!!! :p

[RedSidedSPR]

Good.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I'd file them all under "Non-garters".

Ha! Actually i do this.... my snake photo folder is split into 2 major folders: Garter& water snakes and "Not Garters"

:)

[ConcinusMan]

ORLY? :P That difference in "spunk" you are noting is the fact that L T Triangulum is a kingsnake.... but a wild snake doesn't even begin to compare to it's counterpart that's spent it's entire life in captivity. Every wild one I've ever met was totally ready to bite me, or DID bite me.

That's funny, I've had nothing but the opposite experience. Never met a tame CB king (CA King). Every one I've ever handled was mean and stayed that way for years. Every WC King I've ever had was sweet and tame as can be. (after the initial capture that is) Weird.

[ConcinusMan]

Really...the info that I read said it was also a corn snake. Now I am all confused.

Corn snakes are also known as "red rat snake" in certain parts of their range. Like Wayne said, corn snakes are a species of rat snake.

From Wikipedia: "The Corn Snake (Pantherophis guttatus guttatus), or Red Rat Snake, is a North American species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species) of Rat Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Snake) that subdues its small prey by constriction. The name "Corn Snake" is a holdover from the days when southern farmers stored harvested ears of corn in a wood frame or log building called a crib. Rats and mice came to the corn crib to feed on the corn, and Corn Snakes came to feed on the rodents"

"corn snake" only applies to Pantherophis guttatus guttatus), or Red Rat Snake.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

That's funny, I've had nothing but the opposite experience. Never met a tame CB king (CA King). Every one I've ever handled was mean and stayed that way for years. Every WC King I've ever had was sweet and tame as can be. (after the initial capture that is) Weird.

But you've also never successfully kept a masticophis!!! :P

muahahaha

Seriously though.... wild eastern milks have this awesome habit of acting all calm and chill once you pick them up... then suddenly they turn their little head and CHOMP right down! The first time it happened I was like 13... and really surprised!!

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, I've seen numerous videos of that happening to people who pick up wild milks, and not just eastern milks. It's like there's no warning. Just chomping. But they don't just bite. They hang on and chew!

[infernalis]

The Triangulum around me are almost as plentiful as the garters are. It's great... I get to see many wild examples every summer.

No desire to keep any aside from the two I already have.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm really fond of the look and variety of coastal plains milks (ssp. temporalis) and Central plains (ssp. gentilis). Especially since the red ones tend to stay very red even as adults.

[Light of Dae]

Took my new camera outside while I worked with my giant Rose :)

3622

She still needs to put on a LOT of weight yet, but she looks 100% better then when I got her. Now just need to get her to 200% :D *Note her huge feet! I Managed to pick up one of em today :) Progress.
3623

Lewie enjoying the sun on the growing green grass, Shade was going try to play with him, but then thought better of it. lol Smart move!
3624

Pig just waiting to attack the next passer by'er lol
3625

[EasternGirl]

Very nice pics!

[Charis]

Caught Tavi on her new hammock. Pardon the glass and the open closet in the background.

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/The%20Corn%20Snakes/b91dbca0.jpg

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/The%20Corn%20Snakes/760f387c.jpg

Then got this one of Gizmo, the Gargoyle gecko.

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/MaidofChainz/The%20Crested%20Geckos/Gargoyle%20Geckos/496e56ca.jpg

[snakehill]

Gorgeous corn!!! And your gecko is cute too! :)

[EasternGirl]

Yes...great pics!

[snakehill]

I purchased the striped corn I was looking at on line. Of course now it's too cold here to ship! Figures! :p

[RedSidedSPR]

Love the gecko!:D

[Charis]

Thanks! I've told myself no more corn snakes, except for a Tessera and a Palmetto way down the road when they are much more affordable but I made the mistake of looking at the local mom and pop pet store. They have an approx. 2 year old normal corn that is either Zig zag or Aztec patterned. It has a very Tessera looking stripe unbroken down about 85% of it's body, looks sooo close to an actual Tessera. I'm so tempted! Have nowhere to put another snake at the moment though.

[snakehill]

Okay! A) An adult corn! B) Looks like a Tessera but doesn't cost as much! C) Corns are like garters you can't have just one! (or 3) E) You could use a tub for now if you don't have the space! I would go for it! :)

[Charis]

Okay! A) An adult corn! B) Looks like a Tessera but doesn't cost as much! C) Corns are like garters you can't have just one! (or 3) E) You could use a tub for now if you don't have the space! I would go for it! :)

I know! But I still have nowhere to put it, even in a tub! At least for the next several months, going to have a whole room dedicated to the reptiles when we get married and find an apartment to live together in, but that's down the road a bit. And he's on live food, probably not a big deal with a corn but my personal nightmare is a snake that won't switch to F/T. I guess I'll have to see if he's still there in a few months...

[snakehill]

Tell the owners that you've considered purchasing him but would prefer a snake that eats frozen. Maybe they'll try converting him for you! :p

[ConcinusMan]

(from another thread)
I can't stand it! Shade is one of the cutest puppies I've ever seen! (and I've seen alot!!!) :)

Then you would just lose it if you saw the 12 week old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel I'm taking care of for a friend. Looks exactly like this one. She is for sale. A steal at $1,000 :rolleyes: (usually go for $1400 - $2000 around here) Only one female left. People who come to see them just can't leave without one. They're just too irresistible. I've never had puppies that were so darn easy to housebreak too. They don't like to poop where they live/play.
http://www.puppy-training-at-home.com/images/cavalier-king-charles-spaniel.jpg

[snakehill]

Okay it's a tie! lol! I've always wanted a Cavalier! Could never afford one! $1000 is a steal! Are you considering acquiring the little cutie for yourself? ;)

[ConcinusMan]

No

[Light of Dae]

(from another thread)

Then you would just lose it if you saw the 12 week old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel I'm taking care of for a friend. Looks exactly like this one. She is for sale. A steal at $1,000 :rolleyes: (usually go for $1400 - $2000 around here) Only one female left. People who come to see them just can't leave without one. They're just too irresistible. I've never had puppies that were so darn easy to housebreak too. They don't like to poop where they live/play.
http://www.puppy-training-at-home.com/images/cavalier-king-charles-spaniel.jpg

She is cute, But Shade only cost me 50bucks :)

[EasternGirl]

Well I wouldn't pay $1,000 for a dog right now but the dog costs that much because it's a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel...Shade is a big dog right? My chihuahua was $500. When you get into small pure bred dogs you are going to pay out the wazoo.

[kimbosaur]

I think it's any purebred dogs, not just the small ones.

[Stefan-A]

(from another thread)

Then you would just lose it if you saw the 12 week old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel I'm taking care of for a friend. Looks exactly like this one. She is for sale. A steal at $1,000 :rolleyes: (usually go for $1400 - $2000 around here) Only one female left. People who come to see them just can't leave without one. They're just too irresistible. I've never had puppies that were so darn easy to housebreak too. They don't like to poop where they live/play.
http://www.puppy-training-at-home.com/images/cavalier-king-charles-spaniel.jpg
My sister has two plus one placed with another family. Fun dogs, but I'd never get one. Too many genetic problems with the breed and the fur is a pain in the *** to deal with.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/garbage/cava2010.jpg

[EasternGirl]

Sure...purebred dogs in general cost more...but the little ones tend to run higher than the big ones from what I have seen...and the new designer ones...the crazy mixes like chiweenies and puggles are expensive too.

[ConcinusMan]

That's just because of their popularity right now. Supply/demand. Dogs that are purebred are not necessarily expensive. Even with champion bloodlines on both sides of the family, and the sire being 5 times NW regional champion, my poms were only $400. Twenty years ago I would expect to pay twice that.

Stefan, I don't think they have any more genetic problems than any other small purebred. Just like bug eyes and neurological problems in snakes, the "cherry eye" and heart problems Cavaliers are known for, increase with bad inbreeding practices/small gene pool. The high end individuals are high for a reason; no history of heart problems or cherry eye in their bloodlines, along with multiple champions on both sides, increases their value. Great looking dogs there, BTW. Very nice.

[Stefan-A]

Stefan, I don't think they have any more genetic problems than any other small purebred. Just like bug eyes and neurological problems in snakes, the "cherry eye" and heart problems Cavaliers are known for, increase with bad inbreeding practices/small gene pool. The high end individuals are high for a reason; no history of heart problems or cherry eye in their bloodlines, along with multiple champions. Great looking dogs there, BTW. Very nice.
No more problems than other small purebred... That's not saying a lot, though. Last time I tried to find a breed without genetic problems, I really couldn't find one. Mixed breeds aren't much better, they can still suffer from the same problems as the breeds they originate from.

I recently heard rumors that the local kennel club would soon start requiring that all Cavaliers would have to pass certain tests (among others, for syringomyelia and heart problems), or you won't be able to register their offspring. I may be wrong about the details, it was a passing comment and I really wasn't paying attention.

The black and tan one has fathered one litter and has competed with some success. The ruby on the other hand isn't exactly show material, but personality wise it's far superior. ;)

[kibakiba]

My neighbor's daughter had a pom mixed with a chihuahua, it was the size of a regular pom... With little tooth pick legs. It literally looked like someone glued a bunch of cotton balls together and stuck tooth picks in it. He was a funny little dog, but one of the most annoying things on the earth.... It barked at falling leaves and flies all the time.

[EasternGirl]

Did you know that a pug's eyeballs can pop out?? Because of the bulging. What would you do if you were sitting in your living room enjoying a nice evening with your family and your dog's eyeball popped out and rolled across the floor?

[snakehill]

Well I wouldn't pay $1,000 for a dog right now but the dog costs that much because it's a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel...Shade is a big dog right? My chihuahua was $500. When you get into small pure bred dogs you are going to pay out the wazoo. My Chihuahua was free! Found him on the highway at 10:30 pm on my way to work! :p

[ConcinusMan]

The ruby on the other hand isn't exactly show material, but personality wise it's far superior. ;)

Seems like her head is too high and domed. Like she's a little too much regular King Charles.

And speaking of pugs everyone, you might notice some similarities in the Cavaliers. That's because the Cavalier was created by interbreeding King Charles Spaniels (also known as the English Toy Spaniel) with pugs about 300 years ago. Further refining created a new breed that is separate from the King Charles spaniel; the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. Cavaliers have shorter noses (pug influence) and are supposed to have a head that not as high domed as the regular King Charles.

I do like their personalities. My friend has 5 adults. Blenheims and tri-colors. They vary widely but one thing remains constant. They are very loyal dogs and generally very loving. The shedding is terrible though.:cool: They shed tons of hair, year 'round. As hairy as my poms are, heavy shedding is generally confined to just a few months out of the year.

[ConcinusMan]

Did you know that a pug's eyeballs can pop out?? Because of the bulging. What would you do if you were sitting in your living room enjoying a nice evening with your family and your dog's eyeball popped out and rolled across the floor?

That would be a neat trick (rolling on the floor) being how the eye is attached to the optic nerve. Human's eyeballs can pop out too. It's just that the nerve is usually too short to let them pop out very far. I know humans eyes can come out because a friend of mine (after trauma to eye socket) had to have a plastic piece put in surgically because his eye would sometimes come out and actually hang there, looking down.:eek:

I've never heard of a pug doing that though.:cool:

[Stefan-A]

Seems like her head is too high and domed. Like she's a little too much regular King Charles.
And his legs are too short.


And speaking of pugs everyone, you might notice some similarities in the Cavaliers. That's because the Cavalier was created by interbreeding King Charles Spaniels (also known as the English Toy Spaniel) with pugs about 300 years ago. Further refining created a new breed that is separate from the King Charles spaniel; the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. Cavaliers have shorter noses (pug influence) and are supposed to have a head that not as high domed as the regular King Charles.
I think you have something backwards there. It's the regular King Charles that has the pug traits, shorter noses etc. The Cavaliers don't have any pug in their appearance and were bred to eventually look less like them and the King Charles spaniels, and more like actual spaniels. Cavaliers are the ones with the longer noses, King Charles spaniels look like someone took a shovel to a Cavalier's face.

[EasternGirl]

I have had a couple of pug owners tell me that...about the eyeballs being able to pop out...of course, the rolling across the floor thing was my added drama for effect. As far as finding Chihuahuas for free...I suppose that if my chihuahua had been wandering on the road...I would have gotten him for free...considering he is purebred and I bought him from a breeder it is probably unlikely that would have happened. I actually did look at rescues and on Craig's list and in the paper and all over...trying to find a cheaper or free dog before I bought my dog...I couldn't find any small dogs that fit what I was looking for in my area.

[snakehill]

The only reason I found him on the highway was because he was abandoned by some a**hole. If your looking to get rid of your dog you couldn't find a better place than a highway to dump them? Not that any place is a good place to just "dump" a dog? I have nothing againest paying for purebred dogs! May family used to raise and show Goldens. ;)

[kimbosaur]

I cant tell you the number of times Ive seen "homeless" dogs wandering the sidewalks at night and jumped out of the car to snatch them up...only to see the owner on the other side giving me a dirty glare. Then I just awkwardly get back in and drive away slowly...... Lol!

[EasternGirl]

What is wrong with people? Seriously? I seriously do not understand people and I never will. I went to school for psychology because I thought it would help me understand people...ten years after grad school, I walked away from the field of psychology shaking my head in disgust. Every single person who abuses an animal should go to hell where animals are waiting for them to abuse them in the same exact manner in which they were abused.

[snakehill]

And this is why I work with "special people" as opposed to "normal people";)!

[EasternGirl]

Yes...but I worked with special people...and I got so frustrated with the politics and the idiots working in the psych field that I had to get out of it. In the psych field you have a bunch of damaged people who go out and get degrees and then think they know it all and try to fix everyone else. Having people who have personal experience with mental illness or abuse or what have you, working as professionals in the field would not be a problem...as it is actually beneficial to have personal experience...however...so many of these people have never actually gotten well themselves...they are still very sick and they are working in the field with huge egos thinking they know what is best for everyone else. It is unbelievably frustrating. And you also see a lot of bad, bad things going on.

[snakehill]

Tell me about it! I've been in the field for 27 years! Luckily I don't have to deal with those people very often!!! The people that I work with are more intellectually challenged than sick though! ;)

[ConcinusMan]

And his legs are too short.


I think you have something backwards there.

You're right, I did get it backwards. I realized that after I logged off. The sire of the pup I'm keeping won many awards as a show dog. Mainly because he has a very long muzzle when compared to a lot of other Cavaliers. The judges like that.

[Stefan-A]

The judges like that.
What judges like seems to vary a lot, though. Personally, I consider the whole thing complete woo-woo.

[ConcinusMan]

Well, in this case, there were many King Charles spaniels and Cavaliers in the show. They tended to favor Cavaliers that were less like the king charles standards. In other words, longer muzzles, and a distinct round spot of color on top of the head, among other things. But yeah, it is a bunch of "woo-woo":cool:

[snakehill]

Not a bunch of "woo-woo" if you happen to be in the show ring! :p

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, then it's a bunch of "woof woof"

[Stefan-A]

Not a bunch of "woo-woo" if you happen to be in the show ring! :p
It's to them, too. At least to some extent. They do seem to like comparing what judge A had to say about their dog, compared to what judge B had.

I try to annoy them as often as possible by asking for the specs for their particular breed.

[snakehill]

You have the right to ask! I don't blame you! ;)

[ConcinusMan]

It is very subjective. After all, they are "judging":cool:

[snakehill]

You're right! But they do have follow the breed "standard"!