is this a red sided?

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

????????????????????????

[Josh]

i say Fitchi

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

i say Fitchi
fitchi? whats that?

[Josh]

valley garter snkes.
not often seen in collections.
congrats

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

valley garter snkes.
not often seen in collections.
congrats
how much they worth?

[Josh]

not quite sure

[ssssnakeluvr]

need to see better shots of the whole snakes....but I am leaning towards valley garter also...t s fitchi. Here's a pic of my female valley garter....

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//504/medium/Id_valley_female_3_1.jpg

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

heres another

[Josh]

yea fitchi

[GarterGuy]

Don't know if I'd put down 100% on it being a fitchi, think I'd need some locational data on the snake first. It surely looks like it could be a parietalis yet to me. I know I've seen both subspecies that looked similar.

Roy

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

Don't know if I'd put down 100% on it being a fitchi, think I'd need some locational data on the snake first. It surely looks like it could be a parietalis yet to me. I know I've seen both subspecies that looked similar.

Roy
i got it at my local pet store because i notcied the orange they were just labeled garter snakes it is orange striped not red

[flakgunner]

hey,
I'am leaning more towards a Valley,the red sided garters ,that i'am familiar with,have side strips that sit higher up.

Thamnophis sirtalis fitchi - Valley Gartersnake (http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/t.s.fitchi.html)

http://www.anapsid.org/images/garterredside.jpg

Joe

[ssssnakeluvr]

garterguy mentioned it could also possibly be a parietalis...Lots of the parietalis from Canada look like that also....have dark bellies and a row of red spots on the side....

[drache]

it does look a lot like one of my parietalis

[GarterGuy]

garterguy mentioned it could also possibly be a parietalis...Lots of the parietalis from Canada look like that also....have dark bellies and a row of red spots on the side....

Also a lot of the garters that you see in pet stores are Canadian parietalis, because of the large number of dens sites up there. I know my first garter was a Manitoba parietalis (that was WAY back when they still allowed collecting at a lot of the bigger den sites). I still see them coming out of that region. Also when you look at the head of the snake in the pics, it reminds me a lot more of a parietalis then fitchi.

[enigma200316]

I agree with Roy, need a little nore info.:)

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

I agree with Roy, need a little nore info.:)
hmmm well it does seems orang bars not red but unlike the red sided pictures ive seen the orange/red fades before the tail

[adamanteus]

I would have to vote for parietalis.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

I would have to vote for parietalis.
i asked scott felzer he said fitchi, are ther different types of parietalis? cuz hes like orange not red

[adamanteus]

Not different types as such, but they really are highly variable.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

Not different types as such, but they really are highly variable.
i need to know for sure because i want to buy a female red sided so i can breed them

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

is there a difference of scales or anything between a red-sided and a valley garter??

[Stefan-A]

????????????????????????
It has the exact same pattern as my male parietalis. That's all I can really say about it.

[GarterGuy]

is there a difference of scales or anything between a red-sided and a valley garter??


No, the scale counts are the same for both of them, they're just subspecies of T.sirtalis.

[drache]

No, the scale counts are the same for both of them, they're just subspecies of T.sirtalis.

hang me, if I'm way off here
if they're just a sub-species anyway
with from what I see as a decent enough overlap in territory
aren't some of these distinctions purely academic?
sort of like in the case of Terry's snakes
I'm sure the snakes don't care
and after witnessing this long debate
I'm beginning to wonder whether it's a different subspecies at all
maybe it's more like a local variation

[ssssnakeluvr]

I don't think there is an overlap in ranges on these 2 subspecies...will have to look itup

[drache]

I don't think there is an overlap in ranges on these 2 subspecies...will have to look itup
it's kind of a long narrow strip . . .

[joeysgreen]

There is indeed an overlap of the ranges up in British Columbia near Cranbrook. I agree though that while some subspecies seem to be clearly defined, these two might as well be the same.

Ian

ps, I'm pretty sure I responded earlier in this thread regarding the red patches on the cheek, but I can't find it. Perhaps I'm delirious.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

There is indeed an overlap of the ranges up in British Columbia near Cranbrook. I agree though that while some subspecies seem to be clearly defined, these two might as well be the same.

Ian

ps, I'm pretty sure I responded earlier in this thread regarding the red patches on the cheek, but I can't find it. Perhaps I'm delirious.
haha no theres another thread where i posted more pics

[Stefan-A]

From The Book:
Single series of red spots along lower margin of dorsolateral area; top of head black; black spotting on margins of ventrals reduced or absent ...... T. s. fitchi

The key to the next (and last) two subspecies, dorsalis and parietalis: Double series of red spots present, at least anteriorly; top of head grey, brown or black (if black, then single or double row of black spots present on ventral margins)

[Jake Dubz]

That snake looks JUST like mine, only his has a little bit more distinct red, but mines still got the real dark back stripes. I got him in Crivitz Wisconsin (up north) Does this sound about right for my snake?

[joeysgreen]

I do believe red sides, thamnophis sirtalis parietalis do occur in northern wisconsin. They definatley occur in immense quantities just across the lake in Canada. Check out Atlas Frameset 1 (http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/fieldstation/herpetology/atlas/AtlasFr1.html)
for this, and other wisconsin herps.

Ian